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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    Any ideas why WhenU should want to popup on me when I want click on 'run reports'? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

    [Edit to add]
    The popup reads:
    --------------------------
    Want Results?
    If you're reading this ad..
    proof positive that
    targeted ads work!

    Pay only for results -
    Risk free to advertisers.
    --------------------------


    Mad Doctor Gfufy

    [This message was edited by Guffy on December 02, 2002 at 07:46 AM.]

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    Pay only for results -
    Risk free to advertisers.


    Isn't that phrase one of CJ's registered service marks or something? THere's the only hint you need, Doctor Guff.

    All around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    This is really making me sick to my stomach. Come on CJ, stand up and do the right thing.

    You said we'd be hearing something from you several weeks after the Nov. 7th meeting. Well, it's been serveral weeks and all that has happened is more and more posts here about parasites taking away our sales. It's time to tell us what you are going to do about it.

    Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing

    Every day is a chance to learn something new and a opportunity to teach someone else.

  4. #4
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    Ron
    You and I both know what they are going to do. Drag it out until the height of the Christmas season is over! They are just stringing us along. Sometimes I think that was the reason for the Nov 7th meeting. "Diversion" Something to shut our mouths for awhile so the stealing could continue as we eagerly await a solution that is never coming. Any crumbs coming our way won't be until Dec 15th at the earliest! Meanwhile the raping continues, they get caught red handed and CJ plays mute.
    Cazzie

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Cazzie,

    Remember, CJ will have to give them time to rework their software, test it, and distribute the updated version.

    Let's see...if we're lucky, it'll all be done by the Spring thaw! Holiday 2002? Kiss it goodbye.

    Andy [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

    AFFILIATE MARKETING STANDARD: The site upon which the initial action to buy occurs is the site the commission is paid to. Period.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Cazzie,

    You hit the nail on the head.

    I'm sorry, Todd, as nice of a guy as you are here at ABW to everyone, I gotta tell you I am real unhappy with the way CJ is handling this. Other companies are quickly making changes because of Nov. 7 (and other factors), but we hear nothing from CJ. Other companies tell us they are working on the problem, but we hear nothing from CJ except something before Nov. 7th about not being able to say anything for several weeks.

    Times up! Tell us what you are going to do. Tell your bosses that it's time to break the gag order they put on you and that affiliates are demanding to know what is being done.

    Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing

    Every day is a chance to learn something new and a opportunity to teach someone else.

  7. #7
    ABW Veteran jc101's Avatar
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    I agree. They will not do anything about these parasites and spyware for a while, It's time to get this issue out to more webmasters and the new webmasters and merchants. We need to take serious action and let our consumers know the truth about these scums and cheaters. post a note about what they are doing on your site. Forget cj or the affiliate networks they have tooken to long. Those who hate parasites and disagree with parasites and scumware and there operation needs to take the action in there own hands, time to put some strong points and articles in the hands of consumers. We need to protect the internet and those consumers who visit our site and our loyal to us. Don't promote those bloody merchants and parasites, spyware that steal our commissions. We need to make the difference. not cj, befree, performics, etc. We as affiliates, webmasters, and merchants need to take the actions! feed the truth to your consumers! Now is the time!

    Jason

    Santa Cruz, CA 95060

  8. #8
    Eternal Optimist Look4's Avatar
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    We have to keep in mind that for the networks (CJ, BeFree, etc), the customer is the MERCHANT. The value that they add is a managed service: Attracting affiliates, tracking sales, providing reporting, and distributing payments. Those that provide the services best for the best price stand to win the most. These are the goals that the networks work toward. But always keep in mind, the merchant pays the bills.

    One of the key tasks for the networks is to attract affiliates. Those with the biggest affiliate bases / biggest name recognition are able to offer greater value to the merchants. We, as affiliates, are simply volume. They attract us with good reporting and consolidated reporting, but we are not the customer. There is some incentive to make life easy for affiliates so that the network can build a larger affiliate count, but, merchants choosing among networks don't look at affilate quality - they look at quantity, both count and sales. To the networks, affiliates are but numbers.

    So what has changed from the good old days when the networks first started? The p*rasite "pseudo affiliates" have come onto the scene. They not only redirect sales from other affiliates who have gone to great effort to develop content that attracts and incents potential buyers - they also insert their p*rasite affiliate keys into the browsers of purchasers who have gone directly to the merchant's site. Not only does this discourage affiliates like us, but it also means that merchants pay commissions on sales that they should have gotten for free! Merchants should start to notice that fewer content sites are sending traffic to their site, while their percent of commission sales to free "direct" sales has increased. Their average cost of sales increases even as traffic remains constant (or decreases).

    So far the networks make an effort (so we're told) to deny p*rasites who sign up under their own name. But now the p*rasites sign up under psuedonyms, fake companies, and other diversionary approaches. This "lying" on the application form itself should be reason to cancel their contracts, let alone the way they generate their "sales." But it takes effort to identify and verify these cheats. It requires proactive efforts, intelligent tracking software, and hands-on people to track down suspects.

    The day will come when merchants will wise up and ask the networks to add another service to their list of offerings. In addition to attracting affiliates, tracking sales, and managing payments, they will ask networks to pro-actively identify and weed out p*rasites.

    Networks better respond. Stand-alone affiliate tracking software has become cheap and plentiful. It already handles the tracking and payment portions quite well. Attracting new affiliates, especially productive ones, is easily done through forums like ABW and a large number of free online affiliate program listing sites. All things being equal, the network vs independent decision is leaning toward independent solutions.

    The only remaining way for networks to add real value is to perform the weeding out process. Automated tools that trigger when an affiliate suddenly has an unusual increase in sales, or trigger when sales volume is XX% over the merchant's average per affiliate. The network should be the one that contacts the affiliate and confirms that they are in compliance with the TOS. Affiliates that cannot prove compliance with the TOS forfit their "earnings."

    Tracking down p*rasites is something no merchant wants to do. It's time consuming and requires a certain technical expertise. It's a dis-incentive to "try out" online sales for the first time. And if not done properly it can alienate valid affiliates. However, if ignored, it cuts into profits, and in these tight times ever % of margin counts.

    Equally, networks that don't filter out p*rasites also stand to lose their affiliates. That reduces their attractiveness to the merchants as well. So it is not like we have no power in the equation, but it is the impact on merchants that holds the most sway.

    Networks - wake up. This is an opportunity staring you in the face. Develop the software and personnel resources necessary to offer this very valid service to your merchants. Differentiate. Stand out. Keep your clients from going to stand-alone software packages. Gain new clients who have tried it with stand alone software and were disappointed with the results. Steal merchants from your slow-to-react competitors. MAKE MORE MONEY FOR ALL OF US!

    L4

    [This message was edited by Look4 on December 03, 2002 at 05:54 AM.]

  9. #9
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    One problem that I have noticed is that merchants want the high EPC that parasites deliver. You can easily find some really high EPC merchants that really do not convert at all. This is because the parasites send small numbers of clicks and large numbers of sales to merchants. This throws off all the numbers for the rest of us. The average affiliate, seeing that a merchant has a high EPC, puts up all kinds of banners and spends money on promotion. This benefits the merchant greatly in both branding and, perhaps, a few extra sales. Merchants, on the one hand HATE paying for sales that should have been free, but on the other hand, they LOVE the high EPC.

    EPC was supposed to make the whole system transparent, but CJ chooses not to enforce their own TOS in regards to manipulation of these stats. EPC now makes parasites and CJ rich. The average affiliate gets the shaft.


    Look for LOW EPC merchants... those between 1 dollar and 4 dollars will make you more money than a lot of the "high" EPC merchants.

  10. #10
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    I have posted this before and Wayne Porter has also made statements regarding the status of the Nov. 7 meeting.

    We (the solution providers) are working together to draft and publish a code of conduct for publishers that will address concerns regarding certain types of technologies and publisher practices.

    We said on Nov. 7 that we would get something done in December and that is still the plan.

    We also agreed not to use this forum or any other forum to one up the other by making statements, etc. without everyone's involvement.

    All the solution providers have been equally involved in creating a resolution. This may not be apparent but it is true.

    We are not dragging our feet on this - we are working as quickly as possible to get this done.

    Lastly, all the networks are working to get the various companies to be in compliance. No one network is doing more or less than the others.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    thanks Todd, we can all sleep well in our beds tonight.

    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  12. #12
    15 years and counting
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    Well Todd,
    I just hope you're really thinking of the future of Affiliate Marketing.
    We have all been very patient and understanding.
    You have the possibility to be the number one network. Don't be fooled by short term profit.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  13. #13
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Well I can't say I blame CJ and other networks for agreeing not to one up the other in public forums like this. Good policy in my opionion.

  14. #14
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    One-up or one-down, 's all the same, in a relative manner of speaking, lolol..... When the compliance issues are published, will affiliates that are 'not in compliance' be given a period of time to comply, or will they be given the boot immediately, until such time as they are allowed back in due to compliance resolution? I know CJ policy - not that it's been enforced stringently - seems to imply that an affiliate gets one week's notice. How does that policy relate to parasitic behavior?

    I Will FOCUS On My Goal

  15. #15
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Hey EC if you or I started stealing traffic from some big wig how long do you think it would take for CJ to give us the boot.

    My guess is faster than you can say "ebates".

  16. #16
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    You don't think they'd form a committee, traverse the continent, correspond for a coupla months, write up an ironclad policy that really just reinforces an existing unenforced policy, then allow us to just say, "Oops, a glitch, mea culpa" (Spanish for, I like Ice Tea), and conform to their new stringent guidelines without ever being booted?

    I'm sure they'd at least put us on Double Secret Probation.....

    I Will FOCUS On My Goal

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador
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    gawd I hate double standards...I see enough of them at work w/ the old women taking 1.5hr lunches & I get my boss' boss lying & saying I'm 20min late when I'm maybe 5min late at worst...then I get to see even more double standards when I get home at night & work on my sites... F'in politics! Can't we all just get along?!? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    Supras | Celicas

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Well, I'm still unhappy. The wait, especially at this time of year, is the very worst timing for any of this. And even if a statement is [ever] made, how long do you think it will take to get it put into action?

    Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing

    Every day is a chance to learn something new and a opportunity to teach someone else.

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