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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    First, I want to say that I'm not against the use of datafeeds, just against the misuse of it, which is going on extensively these days.

    I searched for "The new book og logos" book on Google and here is what I got:

    http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...+book+of+logos

    In top 10, you have 2 top results for Amazon's own listings, then 1 Target listing (powered by Amazon) and the rest is all Amazon affiliates. In fact, in top 20 only two results are non-Amazon; 13th is the publisher of the book HarperCollins and 14th, an Overstock affiliate. So, the buyer has the option buy the book from Amazon.com, or Amazon.com, or Amazon.com, or Amazon.com, or Amazon.com...

    I've read somewhere that 1 every 5 pages has porn content, and it's quickly becoming that other 3 will be the duplicate of the 1 orginal, maybe beyond that. This is Internet pollution, which will blow up on all our faces sooner than later, if the misuse of datafeeds continue to be permitted, by non-aware and/or compettion-killing merchants.

    I'd like to see other merchants' and affiliates' opinions on this.

    _________________________________________
    "Only dead fish swim with the stream all the time"

  2. #2
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    Doesn't bother me. Someone searching for this would presumably most likely be looking for it to buy. I don't see why you don't like the listings aside from the fact that many of the titles are the same

    Jack Mitchell
    http://kattskozykorner.com
    http://clothing-to-go.com
    http://sports-to-go.com

  3. #3
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Competition's the name of the game!

    Personally I love it, and it's no harder to out-SEO a bunch of Amazon affs than 10 different places.

    It's win-win either way: Either you're the one with the panel, definitely a lovable situation--or you can be the one listing that's actually different. The second situation is also lovable because then you get to sell to all the suckers who won't buy from the guy with the 10 just because of the fact that he's got the 10.

    Besides, it's not just that there's a feed that causes this. It's a matter of COMMISSION! Other booksellers either match or are even beaten by Amazon's lousy 5%. When choosing which merchant to run, if the commission is equal then it makes sense to run the place most likely to convert--and that's Amazon.

    If other reliable sources of the book put an extra 2% or so into their commission package Amazon's panel will become yesterday's news without further intervention.

    Adding extra work to the equation by yanking the feed will do nothing at all to change the SERPs as long as the other bookstores don't make it worthwhile for affiliates to run them instead of Amazon.

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  4. #4
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    Sorry to be a newbie, but DATA feed, where can i learn about it, I gather its where instead of writing content for promoting a affiliate merchant, say like amazon, you use datafeed, to feed into your site , their content is that correct?

    second where can i learn more about this?

    third where can i see some more examples?

    forth would you say Data feed is the way to go with all your affiliate sites?

    fith, like the guy above showed, those same sites had the same datafeeds, do you tink google is gonna prevent this soon, as it seem as bit like same same stuff.?

    sixth is it software you need, where do you get it from is it easy to install thanks

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jackson992:
    I don't see why you don't like the listings aside from the fact that many of the titles are the same
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Because there are no different bookstores, different prices, different sources of reviews. It's the exact same thing over and over and over again.

    _________________________________________
    "Only dead fish swim with the stream all the time"

  6. #6
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    I think the problem is that the SE's are not filtering out duplicate content very well. Sooner or later they will and you will see a shake up.

    Then the affiliates that use datafeeds "out of the box" or use the same scripts will have to learn to be a little creative.

    <hr>
    Leave the gun, take the cannolis.

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I'll toast the day that the SE 'panel page" spammers cheered on by Leader's anything for a buck attitude blows up in their faces. Sure the greed driven merchants want to pass out datafeeds like candy to the SE spammers to panel their competition. Fueling their loyal ABW 3rd party spammers with coupons, feeds and keywords has become an addiction. The bottomfeeders here jump on every new merchant announcement begging for their issue of SE SPAM food like it was free puffs on a crack cocaine pipe.

    I swear I could log-in with a new name and drop an announcement of an affiliate program to some web merchant's site and 1000 ABWers would scream for SE spam tools to feed their addition to crank out 10,000 new pages in 15 minutes work and mirror the process on 50 domains.

    Often I feel ashamed that the entire direction of ABW posts is towards get rich quick schemes. Making Money via cookie theft, spam, template page generators, pushing middlemen for the internet privacy info peddlers makes the entire group seem as a 2 faced front... one step removed from snatching the wallets of those waiting in the checkout lane. Who feels that way. I'll tell you that was the overall opinion of several of my merchant employees who have logged in here to see if affiliate marketing has matured to a point it would benefit their business owners.

    Here I am pushing those same owners to open affiliate programs and all they see is a greed driven hoard of "tricks for clicks" players on one end and BHO point of sale double dipping thieves on the other. They are appalled at the thousand of crappy web sites, put up in haste with no shopper curb appeal, by so called value add affiliates on every keyword combo in google.

    Sad state of affairs here when they see this community silently embraces any procedure that will effectively rape merchants pocketbooks with quick buck tactics. Those here with great shopper friendly sites fear the scumbag lurkers & members will copy their pages or sites.

    The group refuses to build a model testbed CyberMall to eliminate the merchant, AM and network smoke and mirrors spin on conversion stats because the refuse to share ..so called hidden secrets for success. Good converting merchants not requiring SE listing tricks are horded from public exposure and crappy thrown together cookie setting sites are the norm.

    Many major players here bypass building crap sites all together by leveraging the PPCSE keyword redirects to not have to build a single page. The poo poo this as SEO/SEM requiring a skill set to find a keyword combo and write a one sentence SE blurb. The accuracy of the blurb is not important as deception at the traffic source means nothing as long as the cookie gets set. Only unanimous outrage comes from affiliates, including the cookie tricksters, who gang up on the audi-tron popup BHO incent thieves hijacking their often ill gotten cookie at the point of sale.

    I sure hope the SE monopoly of AOL -Yahoo-Google -MSN weedwhacks this industry trend by removing mirrored product listings and deceptive keyword Ads forcing affiliates to work on putting real value and effort into every link on their pages. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TODAY TO PUT REAL VALUE INTO A CLICK ....from a shoppers viewpoint. Meanwhile I'll watch the masses of addicts begging for the SE spam weapons to build those SE panels and watch the Great Cookie War heat up.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  8. #8
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    Well you can't really blame datafeeds for this. You could do the same exact thingdoing these pages by hand:P

    Jack Mitchell
    http://kattskozykorner.com
    http://clothing-to-go.com
    http://sports-to-go.com

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> They are appalled at the thousand of crappy web sites, put up in haste with no shopper curb appeal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Maybe you should quit showing them your sites.

    You post and accuse us of spamming the search engine, what do you do besides cut and paste their ads into that website of yours and talk about savvy shoppers? What have you done Mike, what have you done to put real value into a click?

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Rick McGrath's Avatar
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    From this side I'd have to agree with MrSpeed on this.
    The knee jerk reaction would be.... sure is great for the merchant to elbow out all other players for a particular item. It makes for a bad shopping experience for the consumer though and sooner or later Google and others are gonna clean this out. And the baby will be washed out with the bath water.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpeed:
    I think the problem is that the SE's are not filtering out duplicate content very well. Sooner or later they will and you will see a shake up.

    Then the affiliates that use datafeeds "out of the box" or use the same scripts will have to learn to be a little creative.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    My observation as well Mike. I think merchant who are not mindful are gonna' get bit by this.
    In this particular area it's quality not quantity. How many listings does a merchant need for any particular item? There are other better uses for the feed that don't canabalize your proven performers, the data feed resource or the value to the merchant.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    Sure the greed driven merchants want to pass out datafeeds like candy to the SE spammers to panel their competition.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sorry I'll not be able to hang and debate. Was just in the neighborhood on some other business and this caught my attention. Off to the races....
    Rick

    Rick McGrath
    Partner Development
    JC Whitney & Co.
    affiliatehelp@JCWhitney.com
    800-863-4227 ext. 5681

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jackson992:
    Well you can't really blame datafeeds for this. You could do the same exact thingdoing these pages by hand:P

    Jack Mitchell
    http://kattskozykorner.com
    http://clothing-to-go.com
    [URL=http://sports-to-go.com[/url] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Before Amazon opened up their XML feed, there were scrapers making their own.

    -----------------------------
    It's better to write something crappy that you can improve upon later than it is to write nothing. - Comedian Mike Myers

  12. #12
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    I liken a merchant's datafeed to their genetic code. If the merchant is a swan and is willing to mate with a flock of buzzards don't complain to me about the offspring.

    I make the recommendation to my key merchants that they strictly limit the number of datafeed affiliates, perhaps to as little as ten active partners.

    If they don't, it will blow up in their face. Once 100 or so affiliates are dominating the SE serps none of them will be earning enough to bother updating their sites and the whole picture is going to get as smelly as the city dump. The merchant's brand recognition will be tainted with the odor of rotting rubbish.

    Maybe a few affiliates can manage to keep at the top of SERPs but it will take more and more maintenance energy to do so.

    To the merchants who think endless datafeeds are a ticket to endless riches, I say look before you leap. Get ready to look a buzzard in the eye.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Whiznot:
    I make the recommendation to my key merchants that they strictly limit the number of datafeed affiliates, perhaps to as little as ten active partners.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't think limiting the number of affiliates who are allowed use a particular datafeed is fair. Rather, they should limit the ways the datafeed is used.

    If affiliate is using it selectively in relevant pages, using it to compare prices/ product features, or other reasonable use, it's great. But, if an affiliate is using it make clone merchant sites, it's bad for everyone: consumers, merchants (maybe in the long term) and affiliates themselves.

    And it's completely a merchant's responsibility monitor the use of their feeds.

    _________________________________________
    "Only dead fish swim with the stream all the time"

  14. #14
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    What Sambay said. I've seen some nice uses of feeds but most just use it to clone the merchant catalog. Search engines will slowing filter out clone merchant sites because they are interested in relevant results. You might say they are relevant if all the pages go to the product a searcher is looking for. True but if a user is looking for a certain shoe an SE would rather have.

    1. Shoes.com
    2. Shoebuy.com
    3. Zappos.com
    5. Shoeworld.com

    then

    1. Feed site going to shoes.com
    2. Feed site going to shoes.com
    3. Feed site going to shoes.com
    4. Feed site going to shoes.com
    5. Feed site going to shoes.com

    If you're honest with yourself you would agree that users and search engines would rather have the first example.

    Merchants who have feeds would say the second example because the more feed sites out there, the more chance they will get traffic to their site via the search engines. The more feeds that get handed out to affiliates the further affiliates will slip off the SE radar.

    So for affiliates feed sites are great to make some money now, but you won't make that same money long term.

  15. #15
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Bullroar on all of you. I just got webmerge working. Now, I am going through every page and making them unique.

    Sure I can do it a whole faster with webmerge. But, I don't want to give up what has made my pages do what they do for me. That means I put a bit of time into the code, even if it is basically generated by WebMerge.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    SSanf your missiing the point. The affiliates who take the time to build nice borders, customize titles and even go to the lengths of some merchants whose entire sites are just HTML enhanced datafeeds face the SE axe. You and the merchant are 100% reliant upon canned datafeed information. What is to prevent a bold stroke move to eliminate all SE keyword panels from their serps throwing out even the merchants from those listings? The same alogo formula cannot diferentiate an affiliate from a merchant when it detects identical content.

    Why do you think Yahoo -AOL -MSN and Froogle all are putting in place a POLICED merchant/product datafeed listing alternative for web shoppers. They plan to weedwhack the duplicates as a form of SE keyword and product information spam.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  17. #17
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I just got webmerge working.~Ssanf<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Now stay outta my categories

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Before Amazon opened up their XML feed, there were scrapers making their own.~Weisinator <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yep, those who would get rid of feeds are only scr*wing themselves. Those of us who do feed sites WILL continue to. Un-feed friendly merchants will get what they deserve--a nice SE spot UNDERNEATH the affiliates of the smart merchants.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Leader's anything for a buck attitude~Mike <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If I want to give money away I'll pick a charity, and the Charity of Mike's Obsolete Thinking does not qualify.

    What you propose is tantamount to throwing money away, despite the pile of spin you cover it in. It boils down to, you're trying to get people to do things slowly and inefficiently!!!

    It's ridiculous to walk to California when there are planes.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The affiliates who take the time to build nice borders, customize titles and even go to the lengths of some merchants whose entire sites are just HTML enhanced datafeeds face the SE axe~Mike <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    LOL, what difference does a nice border make, from an SE standpoint?! None! Robots have no design sense. And everybody who wants a ranking customizes titles.

    There are plenty of differences between a spam page and a nonspam page, but design is the most irrelevant feature. Those toadstool-common "fake SERP result" spam pages don't seem to bother with borders, but if that was watched by SEs they'd just change their template.

    And, there are plenty of nonspam sites that don't have borders. Most of the pages on my first c*ntent site don't have any borders, for instance, and I'm not going to change that just because some spammer didn't put any! I'm also not redoing my first sales sites, which have individual (nonfeed) pages--and default font, and no borders.

    As for ALL THIS DOOM AND GLOOM, it's the same rehashed BS that's been out for years and it's still bull. Doom and gloomers have been saying that Google will ban affiliate sites, for various reasons, for years.

    Hasn't happened and isn't gonna.

    If they try a ban, affiliates will just adapt--and keep making pages.

    But protest away, Mike, it's interesting to hear exacly what dinosaurs sound like!

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  18. #18
    Just Lurking
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    Google Yahoo and the other SE aren't just useful Internet site they're your competition. Only question is how long they will tolerate your interference. Exactly what value does 100 or 1000 sites based on the same data feed have to their bottom line? I for the most part agree with Mike, except where he digressed into personal attacks. I think he's right on the money about SE not being able to tell the merchants from the affiliates. But I also think the SE's don't care. The merchants and affiliates can buy ads and listing if they want traffic.

    ------------------------------
    "If all the newbies are going to start writing ebooks maybe I should get started on mine!" -- Buddha

  19. #19
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> SSanf your missiing the point. The affiliates who take the time to build nice borders, customize titles and even go to the lengths of some merchants whose entire sites are just HTML enhanced datafeeds face the SE axe. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    So change the content. From what I have seen so far, It doesn't take much thinking to add Headings, Sub-Headings and a myriad of other things to the page using a data feed.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  20. #20
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Buddha, you have a point--SEs would make more money if they forced both affiliates and merchants to buy ads.

    But that is the case regardless of whether there are lots of feed sites or they're all individuals.

    As for SEs not being able to tell the difference, I think that is a Good Thing. When some people were hot to weed commercial sites out of the SERPs, the SEs' inability to tell what was what was a lifesaver. Them not being able to tell the difference between merchants and affiliates may be similarly good.

    If they try to whack all commercial sites from the free listings, it's not affiliates who'd be in trouble. We've had to pretend to be c*ntent sites (to a robot's "eyes") for years already due to anti-commercial prejudice.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> From what I have seen so far, It doesn't take much thinking to add Headings, Sub-Headings and a myriad of other things to the page using a data feed.~Ssanf <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Bingo! A feed site can be as good as the affiliate wants to make it!

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
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    >Bingo! A feed site can be as good as the affiliate wants to make it!

    WELL SAID

    Big Daddy Smokes
    Real American Tobacco
    FAST Shipping
    Residual Income
    Lifetime Accounts
    http://www.bigdaddysmokes.com/recruit2.html
    affmgr@bigdaddysmokes.com

  22. #22
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    I try to focus my energy on things I can change and not spend as much mental energy on things that are out of my control. However, there is some fun to be had by venting now and then.

    My biggest pet peeve is affiliates who send SPAM email. It gives affiliates a bad name both with Internet users and companies that encounter problems as result.

    Other pet peeves include the standard…. Parasites and inaccurate revenue reporting by companies.

    Those would be my top 3.

    Kimberly

  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As for ALL THIS DOOM AND GLOOM, it's the same rehashed BS that's been out for years and it's still bull. Doom and gloomers have been saying that Google will ban affiliate sites, for various reasons, for years.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yup. I remember hearing the doom and gloom when Yahoo Shopping/Stores was being pushed hard.

    I think there is enough pie for everybody.

    <hr>
    Leave the gun, take the cannolis.

  24. #24
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    If they banned us from the free search results and forced us to use Adwords that would increase their revenue.

    I dont think they will do it though cause I dont think they want the heat. My conspiracy theory is the recent shake up with the FL update was intended to force sites to spend more on PPC. LOL!

  25. #25
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why do you think Yahoo -AOL -MSN and Froogle all are putting in place a POLICED merchant/product datafeed listing alternative for web shoppers. They plan to weedwhack the duplicates as a form of SE keyword and product information spam.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mike, can you cite where you are seeing this informatiom? This is the first I've heard of this and I'd like to read more about the policed merchant/product datafeed listing alternative you are speaking of.

    BradleyB

    "Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed."
    - George Burns (1896-1996)

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