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  1. #1
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    'Stricter' CPA networks
    Hi All,

    Quick question: from your own experience, is it worth going with those 'stricter' networks (for lack of a better word) such as AzoogleAds and Hydra, that interview you and ask you to send W-9 forms? Or is it not worth the effort?

    I've been having this dialog with a friend. She claims it is, but can't really justify it based on her experience (which was mostly negative).

    What do you think?

    Thanks for all the supportive advice, it's been immensely helpful,

    Conan

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Did you search the forum for Hydra?

    Didn't Azoogle get sued by the FLA AG?

    Sorry to answer a Q with a Q, but does that answer your Q?
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  3. #3
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    No I did not. I take it the answer is a big "No"?
    Plus I was also speaking in general, not specifically Azoogle and Hydra.

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Smoke and mirrors IMO, the rep is what matters, do they pay?,do they have real offers? do they allow scum? I know that many wouldn't think of giving even a fake SS# to some of these cos. YMMV
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  5. #5
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    HMmm. I guess before I apply to a network, I should look here for a list of recommended CPA networks.

    I'll search for such a list. But if you know one, I'd be happy if you can point me in that direction.

    Thanks again,

    Conan, Affiliate Barbarian

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Conan,

    It's your business, I'd suggest that you invest the time in deciding with whom your going to be sharing your business decisions with ... I seriously wouldn't want to put that trust on some Guru's list that he pimps out cause he makes a second tier override.

    The cream always rises to the top, you'll clearly see who's who and what's what if you take your business seriously. Once again, sorry for being obtuse, but I truly think this answer is better than a link to a list, and I hope you do as well.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Asking to send a W9 in is strict? You have to send in a W9 to any network, unless they let you fill it out online. In my experience, only some DirectTrack networks + CJ (within the past few months) allow you to fill out an online version of a W9. Not sure why more networks don't allow online W9s (as online signatures + any sheet of paper with the required fields and terms of a real W9 counts as a real W9 in the IRS's book). I know Azoogle required a hard copy with original signature, and wouldn't even let me fax it in.

    As for is it worth it? If a network has the offers you can make money with, of course it's worth it. As for networks that interview you, it's just a fraud prevention method. With all the fraud in the networks these days, I can't see why networks like CJ don't call affiliates before activating their accounts. CJ would prevent a lot of fraud by doing so. There are "companies" *cough* fraudsters *cough* who hire people to call affiliate networks for them and pose as the account owners - A newer CPA network just posted a blog post about this and other affiliate fraud last week (which I won't post here due to someone's dislike of CPA networks ), and the problem looks it won't be going away any time soon. Networks that do verify identities, and do that well, would be networks that I'd be more inclined to work with. Offers have a higher chance of surviving at networks that cut out fraudulent affiliates, compared with those that don't.

  8. #8
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    Thanks Joshua! So far I've only dealt with affiliate networks that don't require any W-9 Forms (Clickbank, CJ, Amazon, some independent stores), so for me it's a new experience and I'm not sure what to make of it. I'll take your word that this should be the norm

    Conan, Affiliate Barbarian

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conan
    Thanks Joshua! So far I've only dealt with affiliate networks that don't require any W-9 Forms (Clickbank, CJ, Amazon, some independent stores), so for me it's a new experience and I'm not sure what to make of it. I'll take your word that this should be the norm

    Conan, Affiliate Barbarian
    All of those should or will require a W-9 when you get to either $600 or when they feel like asking. They can/will withhold payment if you don't give them one.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  10. #10
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    Thanks Loxly.
    I see. So basically there's nothing special about the networks I've stated - at all? At least not in this requirement.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conan
    Thanks Loxly.
    I see. So basically there's nothing special about the networks I've stated - at all? At least not in this requirement.
    Nope. Pretty much every CPA network (and possibly some traditional networks, though I've had accounts at all of those for years now) will phone verify accounts to help prevent fraud and just get a general idea of where affiliates are coming from and what they know. A CPA network that Loxly used to work for kept me on the phone for nearly 20 minutes in their "interview". In fact, they didn't call me - I had to call them for approval! It's worth jumping through hoops (sometimes) if the network has what you need, and others don't.

  12. #12
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Yep, they'll all try to prevent fraud against them. How much they try to prevent fraud against the advertisers is another matter.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Yep, they'll all try to prevent fraud against them. How much they try to prevent fraud against the advertisers is another matter.
    I get the fact that you dislike CPA networks, but preventing fraud against advertisers is in their best interest - Most CPA networks front money to affiliates before they're paid by advertisers, especially in high volume cases. The last thing a network needs is for an advertiser to refuse to pay for certain leads (or all leads) due to fraud, and get caught having already paid out money to fraudulent affiliates. In my experience on the advertiser end of things, fraud is caught much easier in CPA networks than in traditional network, namely CJ and Linkshare from my experience.

    There's a difference between straight up fraud and disallowed promotional methods (email, software), but often the traditional networks don't or can't pick up on those either. I've seen more trademark-ppc-poaching affiliates in CJ and ShareASale than I've seen in CPA networks. It's all about level of control that a network has.

  14. #14
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    Thanks everybody for all the useful information!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    I get the fact that you dislike CPA networks, but preventing fraud against advertisers is in their best interest - Most CPA networks front money to affiliates before they're paid by advertisers, especially in high volume cases. The last thing a network needs is for an advertiser to refuse to pay for certain leads (or all leads) due to fraud, and get caught having already paid out money to fraudulent affiliates. In my experience on the advertiser end of things, fraud is caught much easier in CPA networks than in traditional network, namely CJ and Linkshare from my experience.

    There's a difference between straight up fraud and disallowed promotional methods (email, software), but often the traditional networks don't or can't pick up on those either. I've seen more trademark-ppc-poaching affiliates in CJ and ShareASale than I've seen in CPA networks. It's all about level of control that a network has.
    By the way, Joshua, out of curiosity, which CPA networks are your favorites? I know this also depends on what you're trying to advertise and that sort of thing, but surely some are simply better (greater choice, more reliable, more helpful, etc). I know it's been suggested (on top of this thread) that I form my own opinion, but I'm curious to hear yours.

    Thanks,
    Conan

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    In my experience on the advertiser end of things, fraud is caught much easier in CPA networks than in traditional network, namely CJ and Linkshare from my experience.
    Straight outright fraud, yes, but the high level buddy fraud and software based stuff - not so much - then it becomes more of a published conversion rate thing as opposed to true fraud fighting. But, most accept that % and work around that, even though the program should be producing much more if full compliance was truly "the goal". IMHO the idea of small boutique CPA networks does really work, and it's obvious that they do, the problem is the greed factor that besmirches the niche, if they really did it right it would definitely make the other networks sit up and straighten up to fight with the real value proposition then everyone would win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    I've seen more trademark-ppc-poaching affiliates in CJ and ShareASale than I've seen in CPA networks.
    VERY TRUE

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    It's all about level of control that a network has.
    Or, more applicably ... level of control that a network wants to exercise and against whom.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  17. #17
    Newbie AdFinityBen's Avatar
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    Hey Conan.

    I'm Biased I know, but check out our network at AdFinity, we have a nice diversity of campaigns to choose from. Plus, I think we're pretty quick to get back to affiliates, and we can talk on here if you have any questions so it isn't so intrusive.

    Ben
    AdFinity - CPA Network

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdFinityBen
    Hey Conan.

    I'm Biased I know, but check out our network at AdFinity, we have a nice diversity of campaigns to choose from. Plus, I think we're pretty quick to get back to affiliates, and we can talk on here if you have any questions so it isn't so intrusive.

    Ben
    AdFinity - CPA Network
    Thanks Ben, I'll check this out.
    I'd be happy to send you a direct PM but it seems I'm too new for that. My email is: nemo5001@gmail.com if you want to contact me directly (as it seems you're new as well).

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