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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador writerguy's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Thought you'd be interested in this if you haven't seen it yet. Apparently Bill Gates and Microsoft will have the spam crisis licked in two years:
    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...on/7785279.htm

    Comforting to know, isn't it? Seriously, ANYTHING Microsoft does might help. Now, if AOL would just stop "spamming" my snail mail with their CDs ...

    ================
    Gary Speer
    "The Little Affiliate Engine Who Hopes He CAN!"

  2. #2
    Affiliate Miester my2cents's Avatar
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    what brother bill is going to do is pay all the spammers to only spam us with Microsoft adverts...

    And, that's the bottom line because it's my2cents!

  3. #3
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    I have to be skeptical about this. Sounds to me like Microsoft may royally screw up the email system worse than it is. What needs to be fixed is the dinosaur SMTP protocol. It has out lived its usefulness.

    "Maybe this world is another planet's Hell."
    - Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)

  4. #4
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    There's one way Microsoft could stop the spam.

    Simply disable all email access on any pc using windows. No email, no spam


    Parasites are thieves. What are you going to do about it?

  5. #5
    I like traffic lights
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    Pipedreams from Bill. Half the spam problem is his doing, and he's going to take 2 years to fix it? Don't knock yourself out there!

    AOL is going to be running SPF very shortly. It's a good way to stop joe-jobs.

    I've already set up my DNS to provide info on what servers send out mail from my domains (so mail sent by other people but attributed to me will be refused by people running SPF).

    Check out http://spf.pobox.com

    If you've ever been joe-jobbed - this is your chance to nip it in the bud.

    ****************************
    Jimmy James Inc. fan club membership # 3312

    "But Jimmy had fancy plans, and pants to match"

  6. #6
    Just Lurking
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    This morning I read a couple articles about Bill saving us from spam. I didn't know weather to LMAO or run for cover. Like Bradley said SMPT needs fixing. I'm sure Bill would love to figure out how to tap into email to make profit. I don't like the idea of Bill touching that problem with his proven inability to secure his own software.

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    "If all the newbies are going to start writing ebooks maybe I should get started on mine!" -- Buddha

  7. #7
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Good Idea

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...on/7785279.htm

    "The third approach, which is the one Gates predicted would become the accepted method, is monetary. It would require senders to pay a fee to a recipient. If the e-mail is legitimate, the recipient could waive the fee."

    I vote for that idea.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    I'm willing to give Bill Gates 90% of the profit generated.

    Sal.

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  8. #8
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    That is a ludicrous idea.

    Few points why.

    Currently under smtp, you could fake a sender thus joe jobbing the sender.

    Who would handle the monetary conversion across countries?

    Who would you complain to about being unfarily charged?

    This puts the impetus on the reciever as the charger, which could they spoof charges?

    What body would oversee this?

    The real fix is when the current version of smtp is replaced by a secure protocol, but this will take some serious movement by the big players - aol, yahoo, microsoft etc. They would all have to agree and then it would happen. It is almost trivial in its design, but the execution is something else. Systems would have to be hyrbrids of the two for years, but really, you have to start sometime.

    And there comes a time to say - the internet is not a rightt but a luxury, some countries like korea and china should simply be taken off the net until they can learn to behave, there is an inordinate amount of spam, hacks etc coming from these countries.

    chet

  9. #9
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Chez,

    It could be a ludicrous idea but, any new idea is better than the new anti spam law, since that law don't look's like is working.

    So far I only see only two ways to handle this:

    1 - Not checking for emails on the in box.
    2 - To open the email program and deal with the same bull as before and wait for a solution from anywhere, anybody, any miracle, or just jump in the wagon and start fkn everybody and do the same.

    There is a time limit for everything in this short life and some time you will be force to say: (WTF) if you can beat them, join them at their own game and let the chips fall where ever they go.

    It would be nice if we can do to the email spam, the same we can do with the regular snail mail spam, plenty of FREE toilet paper but, in the meant time we just going to have to deal with it and any new idea is better than no idea at all.

    Me, Myself, I and Mr. Sal.

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  10. #10
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    No its not.

    here is a new idea. Set your head on fire and light the candles in your house.

    Its a new idea, so that means it is really better than no idea, right?

    Chet

  11. #11
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Come on Chez,

    What are you trying to say?

    You're giving me a bad example but, what solution do you really think is out there right now?

    You don't like the idea of:

    "The third approach, which is the one Gates predicted would become the accepted method, is monetary. It would require senders to pay a fee to a recipient. If the e-mail is legitimate, the recipient could waive the fee."

    Ok but, can you mention something new instead of criticize that idea just because I said that I agree?

    Sal.

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  12. #12
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    Mr. Sal, did you read my post???? Let me repost it since it was somehow unavailable for you to view.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The real fix is when the current version of smtp is replaced by a secure protocol, but this will take some serious movement by the big players - aol, yahoo, microsoft etc. They would all have to agree and then it would happen. It is almost trivial in its design, but the execution is something else. Systems would have to be hyrbrids of the two for years, but really, you have to start sometime.

    And there comes a time to say - the internet is not a rightt but a luxury, some countries like korea and china should simply be taken off the net until they can learn to behave, there is an inordinate amount of spam, hacks etc coming from these countries. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If nothing shows up between those quote marks for you, private message me your phone number and I will read it to you.

    geez...


    Chet

  13. #13
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Chet,

    First thing first, you don't have to call me Mr. Sal, I just use the Mr. before my name because there is another ABW member with the name Sal.

    I read your post and reread your repost before I decided to post this, so here I go......

    Now, you left out other countries and issues here:

    "And there comes a time to say - the internet is not a rightt but a luxury, some countries like korea and china should simply be taken off the net until they can learn to behave, there is an inordinate amount of spam, hacks etc coming from these countries."

    You talk about years, please don't talk about waiting for a solution in a couple of years, I think I'm older than you (even after I look at your avatar) and have more experience in the waiting for a solution in a couple of years, so far I'm still waiting for a solution to a over 40 year old problem and I still see no light at the end of the tunnel, so in the waiting time for a solution, you and 95% of the people reading this post have no idea of what really is waiting for a solution to a real problem for so long.

    Since I'm already tired of the waiting game, I'm ready to give any new idea to resolve a problem a fair chance, as long as it does not go against my principal moral view.

    Sal.

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  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chez Noir:
    And there comes a time to say - the internet is not a rightt but a luxury, some countries like korea and china should simply be taken off the net until they can learn to behave, there is an inordinate amount of spam, hacks etc coming from these countries.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe the USA should be taken off the net till Microsoft fixes Windows? Oh? That's not a good idea . . . Better idea! Let take some of those nations that don't seem to want to follow the USA's lead in world politics? France and Germany? Yeah! Russia too! I like Chets way of thinking! Let cut them all off till they fall in line!

    Notice the italic text that was satire not to be taken seriously.

    ------------------------------
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  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chez Noir:
    No its not.

    here is a new idea. Set your head on fire and light the candles in your house.

    Its a new idea, so that means it is really better than no idea, right?

    Chet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    LMAO...How about this idea: See if you can light one of your farts without burning your a$$. Sal, if you are older looking than Chez's avatar you are an old fart.

    Unfortunately there are a lot of problems out their in which a solution is not available. After 40 years of waiting I would suspect you have a serious problem. I wish you luck finding a solution!

    Bill's suggestions on how to fix spam falls short and leave many unanswered questions. We may be waiting a long time for the answers.

    "Maybe this world is another planet's Hell."
    - Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    The solution to the spam problem is an easy one, in my opinion. The throw away E-mail accounts need to be stopped. To open an E-mail account, the person doing so must provide adequate proof of who they are, not just the minimal information now collected.

    ISPs who offer E-mail accounts should also be held accountable for closing down accounts that send out reported spam.

    Anyone sending out bulk E-mail must provide documentation on request that the addresses on their lists are indeed opt-in, and face fines for any messages sent out without a verified corresponding opt-in agreement. The burden of proof should be on the sender, not the receiver of the mail.

    E-mail harvesting companies and the software that performs these tasks should be outlawed, with stiff fines for anyone caught developing or using them. There is no legitimate purpose these companies or their software provide, so they really shouldn't exist, and the SEs should remove their listings from the SERPs.

    Spam is out of control because of companies like OptinRealBig and the rest of the lot who force cr@p on people that they don't want, didn't ask for, and shouldn't be receiving.

    I have so many E-mail filters, IP htaccess bans, etc. on my server it's a wonder ANYONE can E-mail me at all, now! Yet the spammers still seem to get through.

    Andy

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  17. #17
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The solution is too simple and even for the likes of Bill Gates. Why do spammers spam? Because they can play a huge numbers game, for next to no cost, seeing they can make a quick 1000.00 for every 8 million e-mail spams sent.

    Poor Bill (LOL) takes a stab at the root cause by putting a price tag on sending commercial e-mail. Seems someone at Microsoft, FTC, and others I sent noticed my foolproof and copywrited solution ...digi-eStamps. No digital-eStamp =no delivery! All ISP internet access providers issue 500-1000/monthly digi-eStamps to every account holder. Overages are billed to the ISP members account. Bulk e-mailers once registered and verified can purchase discounted digi-eStamps just like bulk mailers do with metered postage stamps.

    You add even a nominal cost per e-mail, while setting in place verifiable sender identity to get any e-mail delivered you eliminate 80% of the spammers. The internet needs to know the most dangerious term in the online world is... FREE. Any FREEBIE is a gotcha and the starting point for spam, porn, con-games, BHO adware and Spywarez. Now flame away trying to justify why Charlie and I shouldn't get rich from coming up with the only viable solution to eliminating spam. Everyone knows it will work since I first posted it on forums and in e-mails to the anti-spam and DMA groups. Only rants come from those who currently mass e-mail objecting to having to put real value in those e-mails to justify a fixed cost for sending them.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  18. #18
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    Sal, how long do you think this fabled charge to send email system will take to setup? 15 minutes? After all there are so many international governing bodies that handle micro-payments across the borders of every single nation. And micro-payments themselves have caught on, so heck this should be a snap.

    That would still just be a bandaid. The smtp fix is a real fix. A real fix that crosses borders.

    As for your age, I guess you think that strengthens your point? What next? You will tell me how many muffins you ate this morning and that number will be germane to the conversation?

    Chet

  19. #19
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andy:
    The solution to the spam problem is an easy one, in my opinion. The throw away E-mail accounts need to be stopped. To open an E-mail account, the person doing so must provide adequate proof of who they are, not just the minimal information now collected.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Throw away email accounts are why I don't get SPAM. If I get SPAM, I know exactly who gave my email address away and I can turn that address off. No more SPAM. I get so little SPAM it's not even a slight problem. Actually can't remember the last time I got a SPAM. Free email account aren't the problem, they were the solution for me. Now I use throw away account on my own domain.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ISPs who offer E-mail accounts should also be held accountable for closing down accounts that send out reported spam.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Accountable how? And where does this accountability end? Personally I don't like the idea of holding someone else accountable for my actions or anyone elses.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Anyone sending out bulk E-mail must provide documentation on request that the addresses on their lists are indeed opt-in, and face fines for any messages sent out without a verified corresponding opt-in agreement. The burden of proof should be on the sender, not the receiver of the mail.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree the burden should be on the sender. The CAN-SPAM Act is a really bad joke.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>E-mail harvesting companies and the software that performs these tasks should be outlawed, with stiff fines for anyone caught developing or using them. There is no legitimate purpose these companies or their software provide, so they really shouldn't exist, and the SEs should remove their listings from the SERPs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just don't think that's possible. Need to make havesting those email addresses a worthless endeavor. I don't like the idea of anyone outlawing software just afraid books will be next.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Spam is out of control because of companies like OptinRealBig and the rest of the lot who force cr@p on people that they don't want, didn't ask for, and shouldn't be receiving.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't see SPAM as out of control. I see people who don't know how to control their email. I think people need to be give more control. Got 38 emails today -- none SPAM. I control my email address.

    Companies like OptinRealBig are taking advantage of 99% of the people who don't know how to control their email address. That ranks right up there with mugging lil'old ladies in my book.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I have so many E-mail filters, IP htaccess bans, etc. on my server it's a wonder ANYONE can E-mail me at all, now! Yet the spammers still seem to get through. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And your a knowledgable, computer savvy individual which the average surfer ain't.

    ------------------------------
    "If all the newbies are going to start writing ebooks maybe I should get started on mine!" -- Buddha

    [This message was edited by Buddha on January 25, 2004 at 12:20 PM.]

  20. #20
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Only rants come from those who currently mass e-mail objecting to having to put real value in those e-mails to justify a fixed cost for sending them.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No rant from here, just legitimate doubts that paid-for emails would get any more value in them than the paid junk snail mail!

    I get bagsfull of paid, Post Office delivered paper junk mail that has no value to me except as mulch. What would make email spammers any different?

    ~Cheapskate merchants need not apply

  21. #21
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    Anybody can solve SPAM for themselves, i have a couple of hotmail and myway accounts that get no SPAM whatsoever, one is even just for merchant newsletters i sign up for and it doesn't get SPAM.

    Open a new email account and be careful with your email address.

    Don't post it anywhere, not on your own site or anybody elses site.

    If you have a Yahoo or AOL account don't go into any chat room, spammers have bots just collecting email addys.

    Tell your friends or relatives never to give your email addy out. I tell them never to send me any of those "free greeting cards" Most of those free greeting card sites are there just to collect email addys to add to some SPAM CD.

    Open a new email account and be careful with your email addy and you can solve your SPAM problem on your own.

    I work in lounge pants

  22. #22
    Just Lurking
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    Great Advice TrustNo1! Exactly!

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  23. #23
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    This is the best way to deal with spam:
    http://tmda.net/

    Trust me, I've managed a lot of services for a lot of companies before getting into affiliate marketing. So if production resources is not the main problem cause by spam for you then challenge/response system is the best answer.

    As far as Bill Gates solving spam problem, he might actually do it.
    Do some research on software evangelism (especially in Microsoft context) and apply it to e-mail.
    If they get a critical mass of people to use their model, then the rest will have to comply.

    Of course, that would also mean Billy's e-mail tax of some sort, but it might actually solve the spam problem as we see it today.

    Konstantin,
    www.GenericGifts.com
    2500+ products in a data feed. 20% commission. 5 years cookie expiration.

  24. #24
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    trust, yes and no.

    While your behavoir will stop a great deal of spam. Spammers have gotten worse. I run a mail service that regularly gets slammed with dictionary attacks, they just run through names looking for matches. The stress on the mail server is immense when they try these (then software kicks in and bans them but still...)

    Of course 99% of those attacks are from korea.

    Then there are the virus/trojans sending spam.

    But putting your email address out on the web is killer. I just created a spambait address and posted it 3 days ago, already 30 some emails.

    While doing it i noticed something else.

    Is your traffic going up? Conversions staying the same or going down? Thank the mail harvesters. I have started tracking individual and groups of ips and their usage patterns. I see ips using 10x the resources of anyone else, yet their ips do not appear in any logs as being part of the site - ie posting, taking part in a poll etc. I blocked those, but still found other odd patterns that i think are bots mimicking IE and scanning the sites, just at a slower rate.

    And can you guess what country many of these ips come from?? I have started reverse looking up the ips at night and blocking korea and china in the firewall.

    Spam is a much bigger issue than just the email delivered. It is wasting everyones resources in numerous ways. You can be a victim of the spam industry and not even know.

    Chet

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