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  1. #1
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    ...as long as that family income don't depend on advertising related business on the net.

    Sometime I wonder how many millions of dollar's are lost on advertizing by all the company's, networks, merchants and us, the affiliates since Norton started with the ad blocking issue.

    While Norton is no't the only one doing the ad blocking, Norton is the # 1 cause, we the affiliates are getting screwed out of being able to display the ad's and the links that will make us some money on commissions once we get the visitors to our site.

    I never trusted Norton before and I will never do.

    Every time that there is a new virus on the net, all I hear is that everybody is running to Norton anti-virus software and everybody is telling everybody to install the latest Norton anti-virus software, bull, not me.... there're other anti-virus software company out there that I will try when and if ever I get my computer infested for the first time.

    Many years ago I saw a movie [I don't remember the title now] about a big anti-virus company that was...(guess the rest if you having seen that movie) I will not comment on what I'm thinking about that.

    Now according to the list that I saw today on ABW about all of the links and words that Norton is blocking, we also have to worried about how many pixels are on the images we put up on our site even if is not an ad image, what's next on the blocking list ..... the browser we use, the hosting company we use, what?????

    Since the big networks are not doing nothing about it and they're (I think) losing million$, I wonder if there is something fishy going on under the table between Norton and the big networks.

    Only time will tell but, at least I already have my suspicion that something is on the oven.

    So my guess now is that, is not to hard to believe that Norton will waste money paying a network to get affiliates to put up Norton software links on their sites and at the same time get those links blocked with the other software unless.............????????????

    Sal.

    ______________________________
    I must work on my pages, search engines are coming soon.

    >> Title edited by Catalyst to be more descriptive of the problem <<

    [This message was edited by Catalyst on January 25, 2004 at 11:37 AM.]

  2. #2
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I think that Norton told the big networks to go to and stay put.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
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    If people wouldn't run annoying pop up ads there would be no need for blockers. Same with spam. There are always a few sleezy people out there that ruin things for everyone else.

  4. #4
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    Does Norton only block CJ links or do they block SAS and independent affiliate program links as well.

    Parasites are thieves. What are you going to do about it?

  5. #5
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jane:
    If people wouldn't run annoying pop up ads there would be no need for blockers. Same with spam. There are always a few sleezy people out there that ruin things for everyone else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



    It's quite different actually. Nobody is forced to visit a website. But spam comes to meet you, whether you go to a site or not!

    Just because you think pops are annoying doesn't make anyone sleazy for running them.

    Turning on a popup blocker while enjoying the results of someone's labor on a content site that isn't even charging a membership/access fee--now THAT is sleazy!

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador
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    There must be a way to counteract Norton.
    I just don't know it...

  7. #7
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    Womanht, as far as I can see, Norton does not block shareasale text links or text links for inhouse affiliate programs. But it blocks more or less all ad banners. Text links from CJ and Clickxchange are blocked, but you can trick it by using a redirect. I run Adsense one one site and that is not blocked, but Adsense ads are blocked within my Sitemeter account area. I have Norton2003, so it might be different with the 2004 version.

    Good point Leader. Besides, Norton blocks text links also. Anyone find text links annoying?

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Leader:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Turning on a popup blocker while enjoying the results of someone's labor on a content site that isn't even charging a membership/access fee--now THAT is sleazy!

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Isn't that - ahem - c*ntent



    Karl Smith >>> phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
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    Beware Parasiteware! It is stealing your money! >>> click here to learn more

  9. #9
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but Adsense ads are blocked within my Sitemeter account area. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Were they coming directly from Google? Some AdSense ads come through other adserving places, which I would think would be more likely to be blocked by Norton...


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Isn't that - ahem - c*ntent ~Karl<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oops, I didn't to censor that!

    But yeah, that's the stuff I meant!

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  10. #10
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Indies ARE blocked IF they have the word ad or banner or any other blocked words in their link structure - EVEN if they are just text links.

    I just contacted the head of one Indie software program. Their links used to be merchant.com/ad/123
    Their banner img src used to be merchant.com/banner/123.

    They just renamed all their subdirectories yesterday as soon as I informed them about this. So if you have any DirectTrack links up, you just need to pull new ones and replace the links and the word ad & banner will no longer be in your urls.

    Linda Buquet 714.754.1280 :: Catalyst eMarketing Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    <font color="#0000FF">5 Star Affiliate Programs</font> :: High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Merchants!

    [This message was edited by Catalyst on January 22, 2004 at 01:59 PM.]

    [This message was edited by Catalyst on January 22, 2004 at 02:15 PM.]

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Catalyst:
    Indies ARE blocked IF they have the word ad or banner or any other blocked words in their link structure - EVEN if they are just text links.

    I just contacted the head of DirectTrack. Their links used to be merchant.com/ad/123
    Their banner img src used to be merchant.com/banner/123.

    They just renamed all their subdirectories yesterday as soon as I informed them about this. So if you have any DirectTrack links up, you just need to pull new ones and relace the links and the word ad & banner will no longer be in your urls.

    Linda Buquet 714.754.1280 :: http://www.catalystemarketing.com Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    http://www.5staraffiliateprograms.com :: High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Merchants!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Well they better redirect the old ones for awhile, talk about having some pissed off affiliates.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    It's sad that so many people never bother to change any of their default settings, regardless of the program. The fact that Norton has the ad block function set to "on" by default is a real concern.

    I'd also imagine most people didn't buy Norton for the ad blocker, but for the firewall and virus protection. The ad blocker is just an added "benefit" of the software.

    Another case of the public having something forced on them because they don't know any better. I've never had anyone complain about banners, text ads, or any other type of ads that appear on my sites. I don't use pops, so I can't comment about them, other than to say I don't know of anyone who likes them.

    As for Leader's comment on turning on a pop-up blocker while viewing a c*ntent site, I don't have a problem with that at all. Why force someone to view something they don't want to see? If it appears on the page, it can just be ignored. But to force something on them that requires action is wrong. I mean, the goal here is to get them to enjoy your site and click on links and buy something, right? Why intentionally p!ss them off?

    I don't mind the flash ads that open, do something, and minimize by themselves, as long as they don't block the page, and they're of short duration. But when I have to click on something to close, sometimes more than once, I don't usually stay at that site, nor do I ever return to it.

    Andy

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  13. #13
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Qball the old DT links still work. But good point. I will contact DT and be sure those links will continue to work in case some affiliates never get around to switching them out.

    Linda Buquet 714.754.1280 :: Catalyst eMarketing Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    <font color="#0000FF">5 Star Affiliate Programs</font> :: High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Merchants!

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Greed is the fuel of the Internet. The lure of cheap or almost free advertising brings every con-man and no ethics/morals sleezebag to seek a shortcut to money from someone elses actual investment in products, facilities, labor & services. How many here completely refuse to support a section of ABW devoted to OUTING affiliate worse practices to clean up our own acts?

    Because the actual shoppers, with years under their Internet belts, have had it up to here with the Ad Whores and tricks for clicks players they demand S/W tools to defeat their sworn enemies. They demand Google and others to purge their listings of deceptive Ads often leading to popup hell holes, drive-by installs, spywarez web bugs and porn sites posing as Walt Disney. They demand their privacy info is protected from identity thieves & info peddlers, e-mail spammers and telemarketers. They demand legal curbs or complete destruction of the IAB & DMA membership rosters.

    So Norton and a slew of others listen and try to cash in on the demands of the general internet population. Those gorrilla greed driven marketers with an advertising mindset give a rats ass about consumers or putting value into a click. As thousands poor into ABW to pick off converting programs and hone their tricks for clicks or continue to push DUPER lead programs the sales or Norton and other Ad/cookie link blockers hit the marketplace.

    I just read where the entire Hotel industry is reeling from allowing the DUPERS like Orbitz -Travelocity etc. to take over their marketplace draining 1.4 billion from their cash registers last year. Hotel middlemen take 16-30% of every room booked. The Ad Whore agencies pushing lazy incentive marketing practices on the Big three automakers cost all of them 44 BILLION dollars in 2003. This single advertising move led to huge losses threatening the profitability of the entire auto industry.

    I predict 2004 will see boardrooms buzzing on way to ween consumers from the Ad Whores pushing incentives by chopping off Ad agencies at the knees. A major merchant who is to lazy to run their own loyality program, content to farm it out to eBates & others, will fall flat on their butts when Microsoft pulls the plug on plug-ins. The SE tricksters will get whacked when rewards/coupons/points/freebies become the target for getting select listings yanked from the major SERPs. Why because the majority of SE spammers bringing the SE's grief, legal work and enduser complaints come from the above affiliates. The networks meanwhile continue to blindly migrate to a ebiz plan favoring "incent" marketing, Duper info peddlers & e-mail marketers and popup/under artists.

    Can't anyone listen?

    WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TODAY TO PUT REAL VALUE INTO A CLICK ...from a consumers viewpoint.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  15. #15
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    I found a way around most of Norton; the banner issue is giving me heartburn... I can now get 2 banners to work, forget the Value Click and other Ad company banners; I keep making money with them, which tells me not many people are using Norton. Or I could be making millions if it wasn’t for Norton’s?

    Dbase is what I will give up for those of you saying people are greedy and want all the money for themselves.

    Norton is not only blocking Keywords such as ads, banner, etc... If you read further into the Norton 2004 they are actually blocking scripts targeted towards anything requesting randomness.

    Just to make myself clear folks, Norton is blocking SCRIPTS also.

    SandraR

  16. #16
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Why force someone to view something they don't want to see? If it appears on the page, it can just be ignored. But to force something on them that requires action is wrong. I mean, the goal here is to get them to enjoy your site and click on links and buy something, right? Why intentionally p!ss them off? ~Andy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    First off, no one is forcing anyone to see a popup. You can always stay off the site.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> the goal here is to get them to enjoy your site and click on links and buy something, right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, for a content site the goal usually is NOT to get them to buy anything. It's to get enough traffic so they can make money by showing ads, that they don't have to close the site down. And whether the ad is ignored isn't an issue. Those ads are CPM and they're paid by impression. Traffic that doesn't generate impressions is a waste of resources.

    And it is NOT WRONG to force someone to see a popup/under in exchange for providing FREE content! The point of making making them see it is because the site is paid by impression. Moochers with blockers ROB the content site of its income.

    And for a sales site, the goal is to get them to BUY something, not to get them to "enjoy the site". Affiliates don't make money until the people LEAVE (and go to the merchant site)! But sales sites aren't usually the ones running popups anyway. A sales site still isn't encouraging nonbuyers to hang around uselessly, though. Sales sites have a Mission and being fun isn't it...

    But for content sites, what's the point of having a visitor come when the visitor is only willing to take, take, take, without even giving the half-second needed to manually hit X on a popup?

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Leader:

    Always a joy to watch you debate c*ntent sites!

    FWIW, we use pop ups VERY sparingly, mostly for contests and circulation offers from our newspaper. Whether it makes marketing sense or not, a lot of our advertisers are wary of the negative vibe they get from the public about pop ups and have stopped asking for them.

    I'm not nuts about banners being blocked, since they generate a boatload of revenue for us.

    Karl Smith >>> phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
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    Beware Parasiteware! It is stealing your money! >>> click here to learn more

  18. #18
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    I agree with Leader 100%. It takes only a second to hit x on a popup and if you don't like the banners you can keep ignoring them.
    It is good to get the free content and at the same time complain about advertising...
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Moochers with blockers ROB the content site of its income. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    If this gets worse, good content websites will be charging for their content.
    I already have such a website and it is making about $4000/month in membership fees.
    I can envision doing this on another good content site just as easily. Some visitors will go away, but others will pay.

  19. #19
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Always a joy to watch you debate c*ntent sites!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The above was probably more joyous because I wasn't dissing them...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>FWIW, we use pop ups VERY sparingly, mostly for contests and circulation offers from our newspaper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm not surprised--you probably have LOTS (or relatively lots) of traffic! From what I've seen, that means that you probably not only make it up in volume, but charge a higher CPM for banners as well. So you probably don't see the same price difference between banners and pops as a small site.

    But for small sites, the difference in CPM between banners and popups can mean the difference between being able to leave the site up and closing it. Approx. 56c CPM for banners, $3.50 for popunders.

    Not a trivial amount and IMO it's totally, almost unimaginably, unreasonable to even *ask* a site owner to give up almost six-sevenths (6/7) of the site's income just to avoid a such a minor annoyance.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'm not nuts about banners being blocked, since they generate a boatload of revenue for us.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It is my hope that ad agencies will come up with a way to render the current generation of ad-blockers absolutely useless. The aff. networks sure are dropping the ball but I doubt the whole ad industry is going to just sit there and continue to let this happen! Once one figures it out, the method will probably spread to the others.

    At least until the next generation of anti-ad junk is developed, at which point the arms race will continue...

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Leader:

    Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. [Uh-oh. I may have just ruptured the space-time continuum!]



    Karl Smith >>> phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
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    Beware Parasiteware! It is stealing your money! >>> click here to learn more

  21. #21
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    The entire Goddess team and I have a conference call to share info and testing and come up with more solutions to work around Norton.

    One thing I want to test this weekend, but maybe someone else can in the meantime. If you change a standard 468X60 banner to 467X59 will it display??? That's just taking 1 pixel off each side, but I think it would work.

    I'll keep you posted as I find out more and thanks to all of you who are rallying together to come up with solutions too.

    Linda Buquet 714.754.1280 :: Catalyst eMarketing Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    <font color="#0000FF">5 Star Affiliate Programs</font> :: High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Merchants!

  22. #22
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    I just got an email from an affiliate that is doing testing. He said if merchants just reduce standard banners by 1 pixel in width, they will display. Of course that's only if they are not blocked based on something else, like network URL or ad-type words in the link.

    Linda Buquet 714.754.1280 :: Catalyst eMarketing Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    <font color="#0000FF">5 Star Affiliate Programs</font> :: High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Merchants!

  23. #23
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    Testing very quickly with Norton 2004 - changing the display size doesn't seem to have any effect - I tried with a shareasale banner and even changing the size dramatically didn't allow the ad to show, though you could still click on the blank area!

    “There are only two settings, stun and kill...it would be best not to confuse them.”
    --Malcom Reed

  24. #24
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    It's BLOCKING SHAREASALE TOO???

    Linda Buquet 714.754.1280 :: Catalyst eMarketing Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    <font color="#0000FF">5 Star Affiliate Programs</font> :: High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Merchants!

  25. #25
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    "If you change a standard 468X60 banner to 467X59 will it display??? That's just taking 1 pixel off each side, but I think it would work."


    Linda,

    I'm sorry to disagree with you about just taking 1 pixel off each side but, what affiliate that have over 1000 pages on one site will be willing to spend over a week trimming images just to get around the Norton issue, remember that even if anybody can change all their banners in to a circular shape in 30 seconds, Norton still will be blocking the qksrv.net and cj.com links, so what is the use.

    Sal.

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