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  1. #1
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    How much do you expect to make per visitor?
    Hi All,

    Here is a question for anyone that has a list. Let's say that you are promoting a product, and you manage to get 1000 people to the landing page (or sales page, or whatever page is the first they see). How much money would you expect to make on average from those 1000 people.

    For example, a 2% conversion (in this case 20 sales) @ $15 commission per sale is $300, which is 30c per visitor. This would obviously be pretty poor.

    On the other hand, I would think most people would be happy with say a 3% conversion, and $150 per sale, which is $4.50 per visitor.

    So the question is, what is the lowest acceptable, and also what do you consider good?

  2. #2
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    You left out many variables.

    Search for thread topics using the search button and you'll see complaints from affiliates across the different networks in terms of many clicks [hundreds even thousands of clicks] and no sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by cre8iveq
    So the question is, what is the lowest acceptable, and also what do you consider good?
    I create affiliate websites because I enjoy creating them.
    I don't have a "lowest acceptable [rate]." My major expenses were a computer, ISP, Adobe Dreamweaver, Adobe Photoshop & Adobe Illustrator [all CS3 -- there's no justification at the moment to upgrade to CS4] and I pay 1&1 $10 a month for hosting.

    -->CJ has a rule that an affiliate must make one sale every 6 months -- so I strive for that.
    I don't like when merchants drop me, it usually inspires a promotion of that merchant's competitors
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  3. #3
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    I know this happens, and obviously this would fall under the "not acceptable" category. So the question is, what IS acceptable?

  4. #4
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cre8iveq
    So the question is, what IS acceptable?
    That depends on your variables: what kind of hosting are you using and how much do you pay? Expenses? The time you are putting into the sections of your site?
    Are you subscribing to some sort of "tool" that costs a monthly fee? Etc... etc...
    The cost/benefit analysis has a different result for each affiliate; you can not force people to buy from your site.

    It's great to make sales but it isn't easy
    As I mentioned above, CJ requires at least 1 sale every 6 months -- so that is something to strive for [not just for CJ but for the other networks as well even if they don't have that requirement]

    If you're paying too much without a monetary return that you need/desire -- then that is not acceptable.

    I like to make sales but I also get a satisfaction in the process that I go through to create the pages and in little things like positive e-mails and analytical results that provide me with entertainment
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  5. #5
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    Rhia7, I don't think you understand the question. The first part of the question was "Here is a question for anyone that has a list"... by list, I meant an email list. If you have an email list, and you are a serious marketer, you will be sending them offers from time to time. When you send out an offer, a certain percentage of your list will go and check out that offer. Of those, a certain percentage will buy. These numbers do not have anything to do with your hosting or your expenses... just because you pay more for hosting does not mean more people will buy the stuff you are promoting.

    How much you "NEED" to make from a promotion in order to break even / eat dinner tonight / make a profit relies on your expenses, but your expenses won't change your conversion. So the question remains, what would you consider a good income per visitor you send to the site.

    I'll give an example answer I got from someone. They said if they like to promote $47 products on clickbank with a 75% commission, and would be happy with a 2% conversion. This is 75c per visitor.

  6. #6
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    What is acceptable? Does it make a PROFIT? If my costs are ONE cent per visitor, then making TWO cents is acceptable.

    So if I get 2,000 people to view my offers, and they cost $20 to get there, then $40 is in revenue is acceptable.

    If it does not make a profit, it is unacceptable.

    Obviously SCALE matters ... but if you have 30 one page wonder webpages that make you $2/day each and they only cost you $1/day each, you walk away with $900 profit per month ... up that the revenue to $3/day and you have a liveable income.

    What all the braindead fail to realize is that there is NO SUCH THING AS BAD TRAFFIC.
    It all depends on what it costs versus what you take in revenue wise.

    For example: I buy 100K click thrus a month for $45. It's DRECK traffic to say the least, but it averages ONE CENT per click in revenue over the course of the month.
    Do the math. $1,000 less $45 less hosting costs = monthly profit.

    Sometimes even real big profits get posted. You just never know. So about 10 of these pages rotated five at a time for $45 ... and it's no worries, be happy.

    Which is why I have been doing online business for 12 years ...

    I'll just let the gurus and merchants pay Google or talk people into wasting their money buying high priced clicks.

  7. #7
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by net4biz
    What all the braindead fail to realize is that there is NO SUCH THING AS BAD TRAFFIC.
    I hope so.

    Right now a picture that I have in an "abandoned blog" [I plan to open a new one soon & I keep the old ones up for purposes of nostalgia] is a top hit in Google images -- that's not what I want to rank in Google but right now it's getting the hits
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  8. #8
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    net4biz wrote (in part): > "What is acceptable? Does it make a PROFIT? If my costs are ONE cent per visitor, then making TWO cents is acceptable. . . . . If it does not make a profit, it is unacceptable." <

    Exactly right.

    net4biz also wrote (in part): > "there is NO SUCH THING AS BAD TRAFFIC" <

    I disagree. "Bad traffic" is any traffic which costs you more than you can ever expect to monetize (or otherwise benefit from -- I recognize that there are non-monetary benefits, just as there are non-monetary "costs," including your time).

    Although Rhia7's image example isn't necessarily what we would consider to be "traffic" (the image is probably being viewed without the context of her blog page), it does drain her bandwidth and CPU resources, and complicates any log analysis. That could cost her money and attention.

    I've created web sites that drew traffic, but which proved unprofitable. (Yes, I'm sure that smarter folks could have figured out a way to profit from the sites.) I've sold at least two such sites on eBay, for nominal amounts. I've abandoned many more, by simply choosing not to renew the domain registrations.

    And there definitely are situations where traffic is so bad that nobody could profit from it (see, for example, www(dot)payperclicksearchengines.com/articles/61/1/PPC-Bidding-Strategy, which reproduces a comment I posted in the Online-Ads discussion list in 2000 or 2001).

  9. #9
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    You are right, Mark; very good analysis

    I haven't decided to pull the blog entry that contains the image yet -- but if 1&1 decides to charge me for resulting additional bandwidth, I might. I think the interest will be limited to a temporary time period but when I look at my "analytics" I ask myself, "[fill_in_the_blank] is my #1 keyword????!"
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  10. #10
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    Rhia7 wrote (in part): > "I haven't decided to pull the blog entry that contains the image yet -- but if 1&1 decides to charge me for resulting additional bandwidth, I might." <

    If bandwidth is an issue, you could edit the image -- reduce the image resolution (for example, change the JPG setting from 90% to 70%), which could significantly reduce the file size. Or you could rename the image and modify the image link from the blog page (this is only a temporary solution), or you could simply delete the image but leave the blog entry, if it's something that you want to keep.

    Doesn't Google provide a way to exclude the 'images' robot while continuing to allow regular text indexing? Check the Webmaster Tools and the Google's instructions for robots.txt.

  11. #11
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    As a ballpark figure for content sites, X visitors per day = X dollars per month. Doing the math, in a month that makes X dollars divided by 30X visitors = 1/30 dollar per visitor = $0.033 per visitor. Or 3 or 4 cents per visitor. Which is why PPC is generally not an option for content site traffic (for me anyway).

    For sales sites attracting "ready buyers", perhaps $0.10 per visitor. For PPC with well-sifted out traffic, perhaps $0.20 or $0.30 (or more) per visit.

    A good program might convert at $50 per 100 clicks. If 10 percent of your visitors click through, that's $50 per 1000 visits or $0.05 per visit. Get the click-thru up to 50% and you are at $0.25 per visit. Assuming your visitors will convert at least the $50EPC level once they get to the merchant site.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  12. #12
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    The first line of the question was "Here is a question for anyone that has a list". By this I meant an email list. To say that anything that makes a profit is acceptable is just bad business. Sorry to offend those that said this, but that is like saying you own a house outright, and any rent you get over the cost of rates is acceptable. If you had real estate and your tennent was paying 1/4 of market rent, but still covering costs, you should kick them out and get a better tennent.

    You list is an asset, and you should be earning "market rate" on your asset, and if you are not, you are flushing money down the toilet. So the real question in this post is "what is market rate"?

  13. #13
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cre8iveq
    The first line of the question was "Here is a question for anyone that has a list". By this I meant an email list.
    You list is an asset, and you should be earning "market rate" on your asset ...
    The answer would depend upon whether you created your list from an open opt-in link or whether your list was fine-tuned [i.e. cultivated from answers to a particular survey]

    @Mark -- Thanks for your tips in post #10, they are very much appreciated.
    Last edited by Rhia7; May 14th, 2009 at 08:26 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Cheesehead, do you have an email list? ....wholly smokes, if you would be happy at just 5c per visit (these are people that read your email, and decided to click on the link), then you are promoting the wrong things. I think if you send 100 people to a $47 eBook (paying 75%), and it converted at 1%, this would mean you are making 35c per visitor... I would consider this a waste of time, and not worth emailing.

    Rhia7... while I agree that to some extent it depends on the list, personally I think it has more to do with your rapport with them. Anyway, that aside, you still haven't answered the question. The question was not how much do you think I should make of my list, what about YOUR list? How much do YOU want to make per person?

    Regards,

    Dan.

  15. #15
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cre8iveq
    Rhia7... while I agree that to some extent it depends on the list, personally I think it has more to do with your rapport with them. Anyway, that aside, you still haven't answered the question. The question was not how much do you think I should make of my list, what about YOUR list? How much do YOU want to make per person?
    I had a forum in the past [lightweight, not as fancy/well-made as this one, but it was a forum] and I have had and continue to have e-mail lists [people e-mail me and when I have an active blog, I get blog activity. I even get blog activity on inactive blogs, but I don't publish the comments as I am not really that interested with recent comments on old blogs] -- my biggest problem with lists is that often people are interested in one product only and when they get that they are no longer interested in what you have to say *or* I've encountered "the buddy syndrome" where people start to e-mail me because they want a virtual buddy.

    I've sold through one-on-one e-mails, but they were just that: an e-mail personally tailored to a person based upon what they had e-mailed me or based upon preferences I could surmise from blog or forum activity [I gave up the forum]. My goal was always that I hoped they would buy one suggested product.
    I never quantified my e-mails with "I gotta make $1.25 per person or bust."

    I don't send out mass generic e-mails.

    I don't do PPC; I understand that affiliates who do PPC would want to quantify interaction.
    I don't quantify interaction. If I sell an item and make a 90 cent commission I like that, of course I like it *more* if I make a $5 or $10 commission
    I don't look a "commission horse" in the mouth
    Last edited by Rhia7; May 15th, 2009 at 04:52 AM.
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  16. #16
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cre8iveq
    The first part of the question was "Here is a question for anyone that has a list"... by list, I meant an email list. If you have an email list, and you are a serious marketer, you will be sending them offers from time to time. When you send out an offer, a certain percentage of your list will go and check out that offer. Of those, a certain percentage will buy.
    Not necessarily.
    I used to sell Time-Sharing face-to-face [Does that qualify as a serious marketer according to your standards?]
    When I made a sale, the manager and I would offer the couple $500 knocked off the Time-Share package they were buying just for a list of 6 names.
    I personally never profited from such lists.

    I can tell you that there are many marketing jobs where the marketer has to "do the routine" again and again without making any money, but when it happened

    If you have a list -- great -- but the only person quantifying it is *you*
    Do you think an affiliate program on any network really cares whether you have a list or not? The program cares about its bottom line and not necessarily the means that enhanced it [as long as the means were legit].

    So if you have a list, hooray for you
    Last edited by Rhia7; May 15th, 2009 at 05:08 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Profit and efficiency
    Great discussion. When we got started we were happy with each and every profitable step as the business has matured and lines added we have to now consider where is the best return for time invested. If we are talking about a site on auto pilot then any profit is fine, the more time that has to be invested then we consider Dan's questions carefully--how much do we want to make? We set goals and design plans to hit those numbers

    We also have created an excel spreadsheet that lets us input costs and sales variables so we can track efficiency and optimize profit. That has been very helpful.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Hey, how about an "X" factor?

    We run many, many CPM-based campaigns so, in that regard, no traffic is "bad" traffic. Well, unless we fulfill all of our campaigns before, say, month's end. Which happens. With the sinking economy, our sell-through rate has definitely declined.

    But back to the value of a visitor.

    Again, in our scenario, tough to determine. We have a sliding rate card so that someone who buys a HUGE (for us) number of impressions may end up with a CPM rate between $6 and $8. Meanwhile, someone who buys a meager handful would wind up with something three or four times that.

    So take the higher (quantity) end ... 100 visitors would be worth approximately 6 cents. EDITED here ... it's not really 100 visitors, but 100 page views. So if 1 visitor comes up and generates 100 page views, that's worth 6 cents. Our average visitor generates between 6 and 8 page views per visit and, frankly, it's too early for me to do any more math.

    Our expectations on AM vary. We don't run a lot of display ads for AM, mostly as ROS filler.

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