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  1. #1
    Newbie Zipdrive's Avatar
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    April 22nd, 2009
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    Fraudulent leads
    Hi all,
    I want to get your advice and see if there is a way out of my situation.

    I had hooked up with a network to promote my product. This network has send me over 500 leads. They we all from lost/stolen credit cards.
    I had let them know that I have implemented a security back end and it will catch these types of leads.
    Unfortunately I had not placed the initial order of $4.99 into that gateway.
    When time came to re-bill I found that all the orders came from lost/stolen cc accounts. I tried to contact the customers and "obviously" the info was bogus.
    I let the am know and she became more difficult to get a hold of after that.
    Now without mentioning the network, I can say that it is a pretty nice sized one.
    They wanted me to pay them for the leads sent to us, which enraged me due to the fact that I had told them the leads were fraudulent.
    I recently have had a lot of charge backs and it is worriyng me a great deal.
    Not only am I being penalized for the charge back, I risk loosing my account.
    Regardless of weather or not I refund the amount.
    I want to sue this network, for the damages. I have the proof, affiliate id's and that the leads came through their network.

    If anyone has any insight regarding this I would love to hear it.

    Thank you in advance for your time,
    Aritn

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    You can't sue a network for damages because of your lack of implementation of a $4.99 add on. This is the Wild Wild West and you need to know and live the caveat emptor rule, especially when you already had warning signals and trepidations - http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...44&postcount=1

    The best way to combat the fraud is to out the network so that others don't get involved with them, that's the power - real information, not spin and promises.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  3. #3
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Echo what Haiko said, we work hard at affiliate marketing and affiliates look to ABestWeb for advice on who are the "good players". By disclosing the thieves we can save affiliates from losing their livelihoods.

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager FriendlyPlanetTravel's Avatar
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    "They wanted me to pay them for the leads sent to us" - DUMP the network and go with a more legit one. We had a small problem also where all the sales from 1 affiliate were from stolen credit cards - when I contacted the network we use (Shareasale) - the NETWORK immediately said to us to reverse the charges and dump that affiliate - not the other way around. Legit networks want "clean" merchants and affiliates.
    Clifford Mark
    Director of Marketing - [URL=http://www.friendlyplanettravel.com]Friendly Planet Travel Inc[/URL] | [email=cliff@friendlyplanet.com]email me[/email]
    [URL=http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=18510]Join The FriendlyPlanetTravel.com Affiliate Program Now![/URL]

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Georgie Peri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyPlanetTravel
    the NETWORK immediately said to us to reverse the charges and dump that affiliate - not the other way around. Legit networks want "clean" merchants and affiliates.

    Ok so if some random person clicks on my affiliate link and enters in a bad CC .. ur gonna remove me from the program??
    OpA! Giasou Ti kanies!

  6. #6
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Magi, if it one order then it would get reversed or chargedback.

    We just cleaned out several fraudulent affiliates in LinkShare. Provided the documentation to our account manager who passed it to the network quality team and all three affiliates were removed from the network.

    With my lead gen merchant we run a test them pause for up to a month to verify the quality of the leads. If they are bogus no one gets paid and I am out the time it took to test the affiliate.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    You can also make sure your contract states you will pay for "approved" sales and not all sales.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
    www.gocmc.com info(AT)gocmc.com | 330-259-1223

    Join us! - MiNeeds.com | DiscountCandleShop/CheeseSupply | Feng Shui Plaza

  8. #8
    Affiliate Manager FriendlyPlanetTravel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magi
    Ok so if some random person clicks on my affiliate link and enters in a bad CC .. ur gonna remove me from the program??
    Magi,

    In our particular case - we had about a dozen straight orders that arrived through one particular new afiliate. EACH and EVERY order was with a stolen credit card. Now realize that we sell travel tours that are booked months in advance, where a passport must be provided as it is necessary for travel. Logically the people "buying" such a tour had no expectations of ever receiving the tour. (unless they also had valid passports in the names of those stolen credit cards - and they were dumb enough to think that during the months prior to departure that the credit card wouldn't be reported) Therefore the only person who benefited from such a transaction was the affiliate; as we pay a commission at time of booking - NOT AFTER travel occurs - as other travel sites do.

    Even so, I did not accuse the affiliate of wrong doing -(I am a trusting albeit naive person). It was actually our rep at SAS that immediately classified the transactions as affiliate fruad (as did other ABW A.M. members when I posted the situation)

    In answer to your question - if you as an affiliate send 1 person who makes a purchase with a fraudulent credit card - would I remove you? No. If a large % are fraudulent. Yes, as it beats the odds. In the 25 years Friendly Planet Travel has been selling tours - we have had only 1 fraudulent charge situation (before this rash of bad sales from this one affiliate)
    Clifford Mark
    Director of Marketing - [URL=http://www.friendlyplanettravel.com]Friendly Planet Travel Inc[/URL] | [email=cliff@friendlyplanet.com]email me[/email]
    [URL=http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=18510]Join The FriendlyPlanetTravel.com Affiliate Program Now![/URL]

  9. #9
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zipdrive
    This network has send me over 500 leads. They we all from lost/stolen credit cards.
    This is fraud. If 100% of the leads are bogus, then someone is clearly on the fake and is trying to launder the data. There are two ways you can deal with it.

    1) Report it to the police.
    2) If you believe that the fraud is being carried out by a single individual within the organisation you bought the leads from, then report it directly to their CEO or CFO. Beware, some companies with flashy web sites are just fronts for organised crime.
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Just curious, for you merchants, AMs or OPMs - do you keep track of affiliates with a sort of report card internally or is that stats taken from Network's control panel, data, reversal rates, etc. that only merchants and managers see. I am wondering how much info people can see about you on the networks.

  11. #11
    Newbie Zipdrive's Avatar
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    Thanks guys,
    Great advice. I am more than willing to disclose the name of the network Haiko, I will do that once this has blown over. I need to straighten an few things out regarding this.
    As for the police report, I am looking onto filing it. I don't like being ripped off, I had my cc charged actually a couple of weeks ago. I was pretty upset about it. CC company reversed it, but it's something that becomes a hassle and time consuming.
    It's pretty unfortunate that hard working individuals in the online marketing business are being raped of their honorary work because of fraud affiliates.
    We as merchants ask for legit leads, I myself pay on time, ALL the time. As do most other merchants. I
    I don't get it, there can be a very prosperous business relationship between myself, affiliates and networks if the leads are good. I am the one usually raising the issue of rewarding affiliates who send me high volume of quality leads with a higher pay out, sort of a thank you.
    Crazy world we are in.

    Thank you guys, this has been a good confidence builder knowing that there are people who care about merchants as I was beginning to think that smaller merchants are getting the shaft and most affiliates want to take us on a quick ride.

    Thanks,
    Artin

  12. #12
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zipdrive
    Thanks guys,
    Great advice. I am more than willing to disclose the name of the network Haiko, I will do that once this has blown over. I need to straighten an few things out regarding this.
    As for the police report, I am looking onto filing it. I don't like being ripped off, I had my cc charged actually a couple of weeks ago. I was pretty upset about it. CC company reversed it, but it's something that becomes a hassle and time consuming.
    It's pretty unfortunate that hard working individuals in the online marketing business are being raped of their honorary work because of fraud affiliates.
    We as merchants ask for legit leads, I myself pay on time, ALL the time. As do most other merchants. I
    I don't get it, there can be a very prosperous business relationship between myself, affiliates and networks if the leads are good. I am the one usually raising the issue of rewarding affiliates who send me high volume of quality leads with a higher pay out, sort of a thank you.
    Crazy world we are in.

    Thank you guys, this has been a good confidence builder knowing that there are people who care about merchants as I was beginning to think that smaller merchants are getting the shaft and most affiliates want to take us on a quick ride.

    Thanks,
    Artin
    I'm an affiliate and take my partnerships with merchants very seriously as do the vas majority of my peers. In any businesss or industry there are frauds and crooks. Honest affiliates like myself joined ABW to be part of a community that is looking for honest palyers and stabdards in this industry. The same standards must be adopted by merchants and networks. While the vast majority of merchants are honest, there are rogues out there and affiliates don't brandish every single merchant as a crook and rogue.

  13. #13
    Newbie Zipdrive's Avatar
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    Bibby,
    You're very right about some merchants being crooks as well. I guess most of my frustration is coming from the fact that in this past year that I have started this business, I have only been disappointed because I can't get the right people to push my campaign, and it's cost me a lot of money.
    It has been a very expensive trial and error situation which quite frankly has been greatly educational.
    I guess you can label it College of the Affiliate industry. I have been paying my tuition since I have started.
    But I agree with you. I am glad that I have found this forum, I have been able to read (and believe me I've read a lot) of the threads trying to find answers.
    Mainly about what affiliates look for and how to run a profitable campaign.
    My partner and I have registered to attend Affiliate Summit in NY this year to further our education.
    Who knows, maybe I'll ace my final exam.

    That was a corny joke. n/m

    Artin

  14. #14
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zipdrive
    Bibby,
    You're very right about some merchants being crooks as well. I guess most of my frustration is coming from the fact that in this past year that I have started this business, I have only been disappointed because I can't get the right people to push my campaign, and it's cost me a lot of money.
    It has been a very expensive trial and error situation which quite frankly has been greatly educational.
    I guess you can label it College of the Affiliate industry. I have been paying my tuition since I have started.
    But I agree with you. I am glad that I have found this forum, I have been able to read (and believe me I've read a lot) of the threads trying to find answers.
    Mainly about what affiliates look for and how to run a profitable campaign.
    My partner and I have registered to attend Affiliate Summit in NY this year to further our education.
    Who knows, maybe I'll ace my final exam.

    That was a corny joke. n/m

    Artin
    It's eye opening how much in common good affiliates and merchants really do have in common. I guess our industry is still in its infancy and in the process of defining itself. ABW and its senior members are leading the way in this process.

  15. #15
    Newbie gccg101's Avatar
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    I don't know... if you are that passionate about it I would consult a lawyer. if you want to lead a charge against this network because you think they are dirty - do it and see where it goes. if you want to enact some sort of revenge because you got hurt out of the deal - you probably are not going to end up happy.

  16. #16
    Newbie
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    Yes, you can consult a lawyer to it, so that you can be clarified. Fraud is a crime, and is also a civil law violation.
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    Last edited by Greg Rice; September 1st, 2009 at 07:51 AM. Reason: Removed manual sig

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