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  1. #1
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    This ought to make Mike and Charlie happy.

    US internet service providers are coming round to the idea that they may have to start levying "postage" fees

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Good! As long as they can determine the difference between individual E-mail messages between friends, private mailing lists, and spam, I say go for it.

    I think a reasonable fee per each message would be $1. If a potential customer isn't worth $1, then don't send it. That should stop the 16+ million a day bulk E-mailers, may they ROT IN H3LL!

    Andy

    _______________
    <font color="red">Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!</font>

  3. #3
    Animal Lover
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    How are they going to control those who spoof your address? ie like the last email virus that went around. I got rude emails back telling me to stop posting out the offending emails and I had nothing to do with it. Do I get charged then??

    Oscar

  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    SSanf you are so right as this Digi-eStamp concept is 100% mine.

    You can look back in the ABW archieves and discussion I even had at Herbies forum tearing their Iab/DMA lovers a new one on thta one.

    Every ISP worldwide allocates 500 free digi-eStamp e-mails to every account monthly. Overages are charged at $0.01 per e-mail charged to their ISP bill. Bulk e-mailed register verified address and phone# and purchase Bulk rate dig-eStamps. No eStamp=no delivery...period. All Pop3 e-mail servers get patched to detect the digi-eStamp.

    _______________________

    The idea of fee-based e-mail is controversial among internet libertarians and groups such as the Direct Marketing Association, the politically powerful lobbying group that comprises 4,700 companies, many of which use e-mail to advertise to customers.

    But advocates of a fee-based system for bulk e-mail believe it would help distinguish between legitimate e-mail from respectable corporations and offensive spam from shady operators who presumably could not afford to send tens of millions of messages a day....

    Part of the royalities go to ABW (my favorite charity) and the rest to my Grandkids and a lifetime supply of premium Parrot feed for Charlie.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  5. #5
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As long as they can determine the difference between individual E-mail messages between friends, private mailing lists, and spam, I say go for it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If they could determine that, there would not be any spam as we know it today.

    Konstantin,
    www.GenericGifts.com
    2500+ products in a data feed. 20% commission. 5 years cookie expiration.

  6. #6
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    Here's one problem with that, though.

    So, what happens if someone is on your site and wants to contact you for whatever reason that is NOT commercial (spam) related? I get several emails from real live people a day asking various questions about my site, Montana and fishing in general.

    If email was no longer free - most of these messages would stop as people aren't likely to pay their ISP for the privilege to just ask a general question.

    Same thing goes for replies to this type of email messages. For people that receive lots of email from real live people that aren't pitching spam, answering emails could get awfully expensive after a while.

    Anyways, just some thoughts.



    Jim

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Simple Jim. Ecomcity.com as a hosted site with a POP3 e-mail box and aliases gets 500 free digi-eStamps and pays the hosting/e-mail forwarding company $0.01 cents for overage. Hosted sites can also Bulk purchase eStamps for newsletters and specials at a 10th of the normal rate. If your e-mail to a customer isn't worth 1/10 of a cent then don't respond.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  8. #8
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    Paying for e-mail was never a good idea - ever.

    It's being pitched by people and organizations that mainly want to tax e-mail for their own gain.

    Konstantin,
    www.GenericGifts.com
    2500+ products in a data feed. 20% commission. 5 years cookie expiration.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If they could determine that, there would not be any spam as we know it today. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> People don't normally send out millions of messages a day. I think volume alone would help separate most of it out.

    Something has to be done, it isn't going to go away on its own.

    Andy

    _______________
    <font color="red">Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!</font>

  10. #10
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    It will take a lot higher force and arguement then what you, or any free e-mailer marketers, can come up with Konstantin. I've faced off with professional e-mailers on this subject and they, and you, cannot justify what you send out as being worth 1/10 of a cent...out of your pocket.

    You have no say in this verses the millions not wanting any junk e-mails. They, not you define junk e-mails. If they don't like what you send them then guess what...they immediately can trace down who you are from the digi-stamp header code....before they opt out.

    No eStamp=No delivery=NO FREE SPAM and no hiding of the sender.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  11. #11
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> People don't normally send out millions of messages a day. I think volume alone would help separate most of it out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    How can you determine if I sent 1 e-mail or 1 million?

    As far as using thresholds for a number of e-mail with similar content across all customer boxes (like AOL, Hotmail and others do) - that hits legit list owners as well.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Something has to be done, it isn't going to go away on its own.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sure, there are ways to limit spam.
    Adding a new zone record for the DNS that would list all authorized senders for a given domain would help.

    That would make it easy to maintain the lists of spamming domains, and there won't be a way to fake it.

    Changing domains after every 20-30k e-mail would increase the cost dramatically.

    That solution alone would decrease the amount of spam by a huge margin.

    Konstantin,
    www.GenericGifts.com
    2500+ products in a data feed. 20% commission. 5 years cookie expiration.

  12. #12
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimh009:
    Here's one problem with that, though.

    So, what happens if someone is on your site and wants to contact you for whatever reason that is NOT commercial (spam) related? I get several emails from real live people a day asking various questions about my site, Montana and fishing in general.

    If email was no longer free - most of these messages would stop as people aren't likely to pay their ISP for the privilege to just ask a general question.

    Same thing goes for replies to this type of email messages. For people that receive lots of email from real live people that aren't pitching spam, answering emails could get awfully expensive after a while.

    Anyways, just some thoughts.



    Jim<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Create an online form that emails is sent from your hosting service. Very easy to do with Frontpage.

    Allen.

    I look for the day, when every affiliate from every nation can climb to the mountain top and yell,
    'Free again, Free Again."

    Today is a national day of parasite free shopping.

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Sending 30K e-mails per hour will only cost you $30.00 in Digi-eStamps. The general public says they'd rather not receive your e-mail if your message hasn't enough value where you can't recover 1/100th of a penny per sent e-mail.

    WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TODAY TO PUT REAL VALUE INTO A CLICK ...from a shoppers viewpoint?

    Sorry if it isn't worth 1/100th of a cent IT'S SPAM.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>in Digi-eStamps<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Did you read my previous post:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It's being pitched by people and organizations that mainly want to tax e-mail for their own gain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    All those "solutions" have their own agenda.

    Konstantin,
    www.GenericGifts.com
    2500+ products in a data feed. 20% commission. 5 years cookie expiration.

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I submitted the original idea to ICANN early last year. They are a non-profit control standards agency for the Internet. I'd be damn if any USA gov't organization like the Postal Service gets in on this one.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
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    There is Mike, another republican wanting to have government in every aspect of our lives with more hidden taxes.

    What next IM tax?

    And lets see, i can count on 1 hand with no fingers the number of organizations that handle billing across every country that is on the Internet. And the idea that you can only send mail through a registered ISP? More control to big government, and more control that is unable to be regulated until email is fixed.

    Nothing can be done until basic SMTP is replaced as the protocol.

    And mike, icann is not the governing body of the internet, they only handle domain names and ip resolution. The IETF is close to the body that would approve the new standard.

    Chet

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    More control of 3 percent of the spammers is not getting a good grip on the situation.

    Fred

    Are you sure the nurses know you're using the computer?

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    In addition to the ISP's charging postage for bulk mailings, I'm proposing a system where the spammers bid for my time to read their e-mail. The more they think their junk is worth, the more they offer me to read it.

    They can put the bid amount right in the subject line, like "Cheap mortgages (bid $9.99)" or "nasty porn (bid $.02)".

  19. #19
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    If email is taxed or charged, welcome back the forums, bulletins and IM’s.

    I am all for the end of spam I am sick to death of it.

    I can easily create numerous forums, for family, friends and business associates. Then for those of us that maintain our own IM, another source for advertising, as well a side step to the email!

    There are numerous ways around email, as an affiliate the advertising options simply open up. For those who negate the charges for bulk, well, more money for me as I can see new opportunities to make more money!



    SandraR
    <font size="1" face="Arial">| SSAN &amp; AIM: SSanAssistance | MSN &amp; Yahoo: SSan_Assistance |</font></p>

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The general public says they'd rather not receive your e-mail if your message hasn't enough value where you can't recover 1/100th of a penny per sent e-mail. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They NEVER said that, and they do not care how much you make by sending promotional emails.

    You are making it up to support 'your' system.

    My main concern with this is that it is the 'legitimate' (self-proclaimed) marketers who are trying to make the rules for filling our email boxes (and trying to make 1 cent profit every time they do it!).

    It is like the CoC, where the parasites made the rules.

    Not much of a solution when the inventor has to make stuff up to sell it.

  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Mind boggling isn't it. There isn't one objection that can trump the fact this is the ONLY cure to the spam problem. It seemed too simple over a year ago and still does!

    My best ideas are always simple. Take my solution to the ME peace problem. Remove every single gun, bullet, bomb, shoulder fired missle from the Palestinian hands and the only way any of them would die would be by accidents or natural causes. Not one Israeli Jew wants to kill a Palestinian for the sake of killing!!! Do this and then give them their weapon free State.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  22. #22
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Mind boggling isn't it. There isn't one objection that can trump the fact this is the ONLY cure to the spam problem. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mind boggling indeed! And ironic too.

    We regular folks have to adopt a system drafted by the marketers themselves to protect ourselves from the marketers.

    And the marketers get paid a penny each time they stuff our email boxes.

    But if it is the only possible solution, then so be it.

  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Mind boggling isn't it. There isn't one objection that can trump the fact this is the ONLY cure to the spam problem. It seemed too simple over a year ago and still does! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Further proof mike doesn't actually read the forums, he just posts in them.

    Chet

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador cditty's Avatar
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    This is not the only cure to the problem. This is the only cure that MS and the other big wigs want to talk about.

    Here is another "cure" to the problem that was discussed somewhere else. Why not have all the ISPs issue a secure mail certificate. This way, each certificate is tied to that individual or business only. You get caught spamming, yank the certificate. You send an email without the certificate, bouncy, bouncy. No valid certificate, no delivery. The certificate information would be stored on the ISPs servers and checked everytime an email is received.

    In my opinion, this is the better idea.

    Chris

    ----------------------------
    <FONT SIZE=1>ezDatafeed.com - Merchants - Give your affiliates your datafeed outside the networks, without cost to the affiliate. Check out ezDatafeed.com for more information.
    Scriptsforyoursite.com - Featuring datafeed import scripts for Backcountry Store, Coldwater Creek, Mondera.com and many more.....</font>

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Nice try cditty. But the majority of the spams come from non-public dedicated servers hidden in closets at elimentary schools in Korea and China. They sure wouldn't use a certificate. Others using open relay holes at public ISP's and hosting services would send under someone elses cert. You can't control spam at the sending end ...only the receiving end. The key is disclosure of the senders identity. ISP's and dedicated or shared hosting companies can easily monitor outgoing POP3 e-mail auto stopping unusual activity.

    Most hosting companies have accounts they have no idea who owns them. Free throw away e-mail accounts can't verify the account owners identities. Even the Whois registry has no idea who really owns those domains.

    ISP's getting a cut of digi-eStamp revenues and seeing the drain of their server/bandwidth resources and profits can actually consider lowering their account rates to bring more folks online.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

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