Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    .
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,973
    Buntai - reselling Kenshoo for affiliates (PPC mgt)
    In my Twitter stream, I noticed a reference to an imminent announcement of "Buntai," from someone who'd earlier mentioned Kenshoo (which is an expensive PPC management tool that I was quite impressed with).

    After a quick look at Buntai's site, I tweeted that it looked like an impressive service.

    But after spending a bit more time at the Buntai site, I'm more skeptical. Here's what I emailed them:
    I was very impressed with the Kenshoo system when I saw it last year, and I'd definitely be interested in knowing more about your Buntai service.

    However:

    (1) You've locked your video demo behind a "customers-only" password system

    (2) The "introduction" is a very, very scammy/sleazy sounding sales pitch (www. buntai.com/about/)

    (3) Your site contains a number of grammatical errors which raise questions about your ability to offer a quality service in English

    (4) Your "tutorial" link just leads to a product-features list, not a tutorial

    (5) Your FAQ is empty

    (6) You're asking me to pay $400 up-front (plus $300 per month) for a service, without even seeing a demo?

    Yes, I can see that the service is still in "beta" but I learned about it from a Twitter post indicating that it's being announced soon (perhaps at ASE).

    Feedback? Thoughts? Comments?

  2. #2
    Member felix8's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Location
    Tel Aviv, Montreal
    Posts
    178
    (I sent the post below as answer to the email you sent us but ill go and post here as well):

    Hi Mark,

    Felix Leshno from Buntai.com here.

    Thank you for your email.

    You defiantly have some good points and we are always happy to get some feedback.

    Ill try to address your points one by one:

    I was very impressed with the Kenshoo system when I saw it last year, and I'd definitely be interested in knowing more about your Buntai service.

    However:

    (1) You've locked your video demo behind a "customers-only" password system
    A: We had to lock the videos just for paying users as we were requested to do so by Kenshoo. These videos show the entire system and are for paying customers only to help them learn about the system.
    They are not sales videos. Kenshoo as you probably know is used by some of the biggest internet companies to manage their SEM campaigns. We now offer the same system with some extra features just for affiliate marketers.

    (2) The "introduction" is a very, very scammy/sleazy sounding sales pitch (www. buntai.com/about/)
    A: I agree with you but as you noticed we donít yet market our site. Right now we work with tight group of beta testers. We are testing our support system.
    We are actually 95% done and are ready to move to next step which is handling our site and going public with it.

    (3) Your site contains a number of grammatical errors which raise questions about your ability to offer a quality service in English
    A: As mentioned in above answer it will be fixed when we upgrade our site. Right now we donít focus on the site as we focus on our support tests.
    Thank you for mentioning that though. It will be fixed.


    (4) Your "tutorial" link just leads to a product-features list, not a tutorial
    A: This is also something that will be changed on the next site upgrade. As mentioned above we are not allowed to show tutorial to the general public.
    Only to members of Buntai.

    (5) Your FAQ is empty
    A: its being populated as I write this email. Will be ready soon.

    (6) You're asking me to pay $400 up-front (plus $300 per month) for a service, without even seeing a demo?
    A: We offer 60 days money back guarantee on the setup fee. So if you wont think this platform is for you or you wont be happy with the service we will refund you the setup fee.
    We also do not tie members for long membership periods. Each member can terminate his membership with one month notice in advance. So there is no real risk here as you can see.

    Yes, I can see that the service is still in "beta" but I learned about it from a Twitter post indicating that it's being announced soon (perhaps at ASE).
    A: yes we will be attending ASE. We will have table at the Meet Market. We will allow 100 new members at this point. Come visit us there.

    Mark thank you very much for your points and remarks.
    Please feel free to email me directly if you have any more questions or if I wasnít clear in one of my answers.

    Cheers,
    Felix Leshno
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; August 6th, 2009 at 03:34 PM. Reason: NO Manual Sigs!
    Israeli Guy

  3. #3
    .
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,973
    > "You defiantly have some good points...." <

    (I think you meant to say "definitely," but I must admit that "defiantly" fits almost as well.)

    Felix:

    What's really bizarre here is that I was very nearly "pre-sold" on your service, just with the information that you were essentially re-selling the Kenshoo service. My main question, entering your site, was whether you've automated the import of sales data from the various affiliate networks, to enable effective ROI tracking, reporting, and bid adjustment.

    But then your web site raised many red flags, the most important being the lack of a clear description of what the service actually will deliver. Although I've gone through the Kenshoo demo, I'm not sure what you've piled on top of it, modified, or possibly disabled. I also don't know what terms & conditions you're going to try to impose.

    The scammy, sleazy sales language rang more alarms.

    Since you're promoting yourself as a successful super-affiliate, I'm also concerned about signing on for a service from "another affiliate" who would then have access to my specific tactics & performance data. I wouldn't want to pay money and invest hundreds of hours of effort, only to have someone "pull a PepperJam" and hijack my successful efforts.

    Bottom line: Kenshoo's software appears fantastic. But you're not selling the Kenshoo software, you're selling a sealed box (a "pig in a poke"). You even acknowledge this; you're basically saying that this product is as good as your word.

    Since I don't know you, and since I don't have any reason to trust you, I can only rely on my "gut instinct," and your web site makes my gut scream "Scam! Absolutely not!"

    Good luck with getting some people to sign up at ASE (I won't be there -- I'm staying closer to home and attending SES San Jose). Maybe someone whom I have reason to trust will sign on, and then I'll solicit their genuine feedback. Of course, it might also help if you could identify some "references," such as posting endorsements on your web site from people whom I trust. (No, I won't believe a pseudonymous post like the comments you appended to this TechCrunch article about Kenshoo.)
    Last edited by markwelch; August 6th, 2009 at 03:34 PM.

  4. #4
    Member felix8's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Location
    Tel Aviv, Montreal
    Posts
    178
    Mark,
    Ill try to answer all your comments. Hope I wont miss anything.

    > "You defiantly have some good points...." <

    (I think you meant to say "definitely," but I must admit that "defiantly" fits almost as well.)
    Yes, your English is better than mine. You mentioned it in your first post. I agree.

    What's really bizarre here is that I was very nearly "pre-sold" on your service, just with the information that you were essentially re-selling the Kenshoo service. My main question, entering your site, was whether you've automated the import of sales data from the various affiliate networks, to enable effective ROI tracking, reporting, and bid adjustment.
    Yes, we added some extra features to Kenshoo system especially for affiliates.
    We automated data import from most networks. We also have special feature that allows you to get same data as if you had your pixel placed with the merchant even if you didnt place a pixel on their thank you page. This our own unique feature that basically free you from the need to ask the merchant to place your pixel on their thank you page.

    But then your web site raised many red flags, the most important being the lack of a clear description of what the service actually will deliver. Although I've gone through the Kenshoo demo, I'm not sure what you've piled on top of it, modified, or possibly disabled. I also don't know what terms & conditions you're going to try to impose.
    It is the same Kenshoo system nothing is different except of the extra feautures we added for affiliates.

    Since you're promoting yourself as a successful super-affiliate, I'm also concerned about signing on for a service from "another affiliate" who would then have access to my specific tactics & performance data. I wouldn't want to pay money and invest hundreds of hours of effort, only to have someone "pull a PepperJam" and hijack my successful efforts.
    Yes we know that might be a problem but Kenshoo wont allow us to make a self hosted system. But let me explain how it works. The system is hosted on Kenshoo's servers and only Kenshoo employees can offer technical support. We in Buntai dont have any access to data. We only market and offer first tier support. If a member needs a technical support it will be provided by Kenshoo support reps as we cant access the system.

    Bottom line: Kenshoo's software appears fantastic. But you're not selling the Kenshoo software, you're selling a sealed box (a "pig in a poke"). You even acknowledge this; you're basically saying that this product is as good as your word.
    We are selling a white label of Kenshoo. Same exact System. As I said we offer 60 days money back guarantee on the setup fee so no one have nothing to lose.

    Since I don't know you, and since I don't have any reason to trust you, I can only rely on my "gut instinct," and your web site makes my gut scream "Scam! Absolutely not!"
    Ok.

    Good luck with getting some people to sign up at ASE (I won't be there -- I'm staying closer to home and attending SES San Jose). Maybe someone whom I have reason to trust will sign on, and then I'll solicit their genuine feedback. Of course, it might also help if you could identify some "references," such as posting endorsements on your web site from people whom I trust. (No, I won't believe a pseudonymous post like the comments you appended to this TechCrunch article about Kenshoo.)
    Thank you.
    Israeli Guy

  5. #5
    .
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,973
    So -- did any ABW members peruse the Buntai offering at the Affiliate Summit East event? Any reactions or comments?

  6. #6
    .
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,973
    I'll ask again: Did ANYONE see the Buntai demo at ASE, and if so, could you share your reaction? TIA.

  7. #7
    Newbie
    Join Date
    September 17th, 2008
    Location
    Located
    Posts
    8
    Mark,

    While I'm rather surprised that no one else has replied, I'm happy to do so.

    I'm a happy and satisfied user of Buntai for almost 6 months now. It has indeed helped me in many ways as an affiliate to improve my paid search campaigns dramatically and I do recommend others take a look at it. Don't let the issues with English put you off - Felix and the Buntai team are from Israel, as is Kenshoo. Their support has been absolutely stellar and even though it is a white label, the tool has helped me greatly and I do indeed know that they cannot access my data - only the Kenshoo team itself can. My support rep has stayed up into the wee hours of the morning just talk to me on IM and make sure I'm doing alright. I never got that type of service from DART Search!

    Systems like these are not for everyone. It is an enterprise search management tool that has some good affiliate features which can make life a lot easier. I know it has done that for me

  8. #8
    Newbie
    Join Date
    November 8th, 2010
    Posts
    1
    Hi there,

    The site is still as described long time ago. Any movement here?

    Thanks

  9. Newsletter Signup

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. coupon sites and PPC affiliates - good affiliates or bad affiliates?
    By Ginger in forum Starting an Affiliate Program & Merchant Q&A
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: October 3rd, 2009, 04:57 PM
  2. Reselling Products Link
    By Thomas A. Rice in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 9th, 2005, 04:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •