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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    I wrote a column on our district considering full-day kindgarten and was looking for some sites to forward it to for possible links. I spent some time in Google looking for appropriate sites, but most have something clever like this gem - "This site updated frequently ... Last updated 19 August 2002" [Yes, I'm quoting right from the site]

    If anyone has some suggestions, I'd be thankful. I can't imagine our district is the only one where there's disagreement over the topic.

    Here's the column

    Thanks!

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  2. #2
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    Link to an old article discussing concerns with parents at a committiee meeting during the planning stages of full day kindergarten in my town. I don't know if this helps at all , but I looked up our switch- over to full day which officially started this school year , and this is all I could find.


    http://www.antonnews.com/farmingdale...01/02/02/news/



    My 4 year old daughter is scheduled to start full-day kindergarden in September.
    I'm not comfortable with it at all . She's a baby . She will still be 4 when the school year starts , turning 5 September 12th . Our elemantary school has over 1200 students, and this is going to be a MAJOR shock to her , compared to the 3 half-day sessions she's used to at the church pre-school .

    I know that a lot of people were concerned about yet ANOTHER property/school tax increase to pay for this switch over , (obviously people who DON'T have young children to worry about ), but my concerns have nothing to do with the taxes - they are ridiculously and disgustingly high anyway , so the extra $300 a year on top of the $8,000 per year we're already paying is not that significant . I worry about my daughter, and whether or not this "school stress" will affect her health and well-being .

    Another link :


    RESEARCH ON FULL DAY KINDERGARTEN



    http://www.papartnerships.org/resour...ndergarten.asp

    [This message was edited by Lisa on March 09, 2004 at 10:56 AM.]

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Thanks, Lola.

    Doesn't anybody know of good discussion boards related to parenting and/or kids' education issues?


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  4. #4
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    http://www.dyslexia.com
    http://www.dyslexiatalk.com/
    http://www.abcschoolhouse.com/home_page.html
    http://www.kinderkorner.com/

    This site has a good list of great resources:
    http://www.kconnect.com/ttt-earlychildhood.html


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  5. #5
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    Here is the best hard data sitew on the internet:

    http://idea.uoregon.edu/

  6. #6
    Affiliate Manager bcwaller's Avatar
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    Lisa,

    My daughter will be starting full day kindergarten in September as well. This is by choice. Our local district has the usual half day (~3 hour) kindergarten, and we chose to pay for private kindergarten because it was a full day (9-3). The 1st grade teachers compliment the program we are in, and say that the kids coming from this program are far more prepared and advanced than the ones who were in the public school program.

    We have been preparing our daughter for the full day by simply increasing her time at preschool. She started her off with three half-days, then five half-days, then five full days. Her move to a full day kindergarten will be seamless. In fact, a half day class would mess her up more than anything at this point.

    Much of the reaction to school that kids have comes from their parents. You will have more to do with making sure that she does not get stressed out than you think. Even if you have concerns, make sure that she sees your confidence in her and support.

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  7. #7
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    Brad,
    I understand where you are coming from , and that's great that your daughter was trained early on to prepare for the full-time school routine and is doing so well with it so far , but I'm sure you know, every child is different .

    Some kids just aren't ready , and it isn't always a case of poor parenting skills , as you may or may not be suggesting in my case.

    I admit it, I'm guilty of "babying" my little princess to the point that she wants to stay that way - a baby .


    While your daughter may be "ready, willing and able" in Kindergarden, unfortunately, she's going to spend a lot of time in the classroom waiting for kids like my daughter to "catch up" to her level , so what was really gained in the "big rush" to get her ready ?

    As far as I know, there aren't any Pre-requisites for Kindergarden , so you can bet that there will also be some kids without ANY pre-schooling entering Kindergarden as well , which can further " slow down" your daughter as well.

    I just don't see what the big rush is all about, and the way I see it , the real world education starts in the 1st grade .

    IMO , 1/2 day or full day Kindergarden isn't going to make much of a difference for the kids education, and except for kids becoming a bit more independant and overcoming shyness earlier on , the only real benefits to full-day over half day are for the parents so they can get the kids out of the house for whatever reasons are convenient for them .

  8. #8
    Affiliate/AM Moonlighter dflsports's Avatar
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    Lisa makes some great points, every child is and will be different. I may be bias in what I'm about to type because I have been a stay at home dad for the past 4.5 years (and still going strong) but I bet most people pushing for full day kindergarden have also had their children in daycare for the years prior. So full day kindergarden would be much more convenient for them and would not disrupt their current schedules.

  9. #9
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    Research has shown repeatedly that five year olds are more than ready for formal all-day schooling. In fact, studies have shown that kindergarten is the best time for teaching reading skills.

    http://www.nationalreadingpanel.org/

  10. #10
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> kindergarten is the best time for teaching reading skills. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    My daughter is already starting to read and can write many simple words from just hearing them spoken. In that respect, she's probably at first grade level already.

    I don't doubt the readiness to learn part, It's everything else that I worry about , like lunch period, the big school bus with kids up to 5th grade on it, and just generally being
    "thrown in" to the school system without any gradual ajustment to these "other" experiences she's not used to .

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Tzu:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Research has shown repeatedly that five year olds are more than ready for formal all-day schooling. In fact, studies have shown that kindergarten is the best time for teaching reading skills. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    There has been no statistically valid longitudinal study that shows the impact of all-day kindergarten across the full educational cycle - e.g. K to H.S. graduation.

    The question isn't: "Are they ready?" or "Can they handle it?" The question is: "What's best for them over the long haul?"

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  12. #12
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    My daughter was five when she started half day K, and needed FULL day. She had to do tutoring all last summer to catch up on what she needed to start first grade. I think it is better for most kids but you should be able to opt to half day if full day would not work for your child.

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  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager bcwaller's Avatar
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    Lisa

    In no way did I want to imply that you had not done enough, or were doing anything wrong. I was more commenting on what you can do next year when Kindergarten starts. If you thought I was making a backhanded remark, I apologize.

    Also, things are a lot different across the country. There is no school bus for public Kindergarten (actually, none at all for our schools since we are in a suburban area with a public primary school mo more than a mile or so away), and the Kindergarten is segregated from the rest of the school. The public school play yard is fenced off, the rooms are in a separate building, and it is almost a different school.

    For me, there is a one block difference between the private full day school and the public Kindergarten, and the class size is dramatically smaller. Even if there are kids that need more attention, having two teachers for a handful of kids means that everyone will get a lot of individualized attention. But then again, I'm paying for that in addition to my taxes...

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  14. #14
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    I disagree with the statement that full or half day does not matter. We have three full day classes in our area, and those classes , on average, are already WAY ahead of where our half day kids are.

    The full day kids are beginning to read and writing sentences already, where the half day kids are still working on writing their names and identifying and writing letters.

    When they start first grade school they are expected to pick this stuff up rapidly. Maybe some parents want their kids out of the house all day, but academically, they are way better prepared for first grade if they have twice as much K time to work on academic preparedness.

    My daughter remains a chronic napper, so I am not sure she *could* have made a full day last year for K anyway, but I am glad she had summer tutoring to help her prepare for first. She never would have been able to do that work had we relied on the half day K here to prepare her.

    All areas are different though. If your K is only working on social and play skills, there is probably no need for full day, but if they are expecting them to write and do primer reading, before starting first grade , there is.

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  15. #15
    Affiliate/AM Moonlighter dflsports's Avatar
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    I'm just wondering why everyone is so gung ho on all day kindergarden? What ever happened to education beyond the classroom? Maybe a little educating at home would be beneficial?

    But I have no choice any how, only half day kindergarden in my area. Daycares probably lobby for this so they can have more kids for at least 1/2 day

    This message is in no way a "jab" at the others posting on this topic, just an opinion.

  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phillyBurbs.com:


    There has been no statistically valid longitudinal study that shows the impact of all-day kindergarten across the full educational cycle - e.g. K to H.S. graduation.

    The question isn't: "Are they ready?" or "Can they handle it?" The question is: "What's best for them over the long haul?"

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No such study has been done because it is impractical and impossible to design. The variables would be impossible to analyze because there would literally be thousands of variables. Longitudinal studies K-12 are rarely done in education because of the volatility of sample and population.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Tzu:

    There have, however, been longitudinal studies on the impact of reduced class size. The results were conclusive.

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  18. #18
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    My oldest child is in 1st grade in a district that only has half day kindergarten. In short, he went to kindergarten for less hours/day than preschool. However, some of you have to realize that kdgn doesn't have to all be about academics. Most kids know their abc's, 123's, how to write their name, etc. but kdgn, but non of this is expected upon entering kdgn.


    My child is extremely bright, but socially totally immature. He is one of the youngest in the class and kdgn is great for working on those issues. They are going ot have time to learn for the rest of their lives. They got to do gym and music 2x week, library once and did a ton of art projects too. Our district also has a great optional enrichment program and lunch bunch for kids who needed/wanted more activities, whether fun or academic.

    When people talk about kids being behind after kindergarten, that is just silly. Obviously if you're going to school twice as long you're going to learn more, but by the end of 1st grade, most kids that weren't reading in kindergarten have far surpassed the ones that were. My son was reading a little after kindergarten, and is now reading chapter books. Not bad for having only been in kdgn half days. His math level is at a 3rd/4th grade level. Doesn't sound like half day kdgn hurt that.

    One last comment, as a teacher point of view. Try not to send your kid to a private school for kdgn then put them into a public one ofr 1st grade, kids make many of their everlasting friendships in kdgn, and the last thing you want is to have your kid be the outsider. I am a volunteer in my son's school quite often, have a mother in law who was a 1st grade teacher, and both of us have seen this happening, with not only kids being left out, but the parents as well.

    Finally, I can't comment on class size as our kids only have like 18 in a class. Small is good but not always great. I taught jr high math and in one case I only had 13 students in my class and I can say it was terrible from a cooperative group perspective.

    By the way, we live in an area where the high school is one of the top in the coutry, I'm quite sure that having 500 kids/year in 1/2day kindergarten didn't make much of a difference in the end if it is a known fact of how highly regarded the high school is.

    And for people who feel their kid was behind after 1/2 day kindergarten, chances are that they'd have been even more behind after full day kindergarten, because some of the other kids would accel at an even faster pace.

    Just my opinion..hope it helps.

    Robin

    [This message was edited by REM on March 12, 2004 at 01:20 AM.]

  19. #19
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    One more thing, Lisa, why is your daughter starting kdgn so early? In Illinois, you have to be 5 by August 31st. Also, if you really feel she is not ready, it can be for just social/emotional reasons, then hold her back. Talk to her preschool teachers and consider whether this is an option.

    But just turning 5 and going to kindgerten sounds quite young. My neighbor's daughter has a birthday of September 2nd, missing the deadline. She took and passed whatever tests the district requires for early kindergarten entrance.

    At the end of the year, I asked this mother if she was happy that she had her daughter start kdgn early, and she regretted it (this was her 3rd kid too). So in this case, even though she may have been ready academically she wasn't ready in other areas.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding your kid back a year. One of my best friends did it and if it's an option you're considering Lisa, I can always hook you up with her. She is a former teacher as well, and her son is kicking butt now in 2nd grade.

    [This message was edited by REM on March 12, 2004 at 01:24 AM.]

  20. #20
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I would have never allowed my child to attend school at that age.

  21. #21
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    OK, this is going to make me wildly unpopular, but here goes.

    WHY would you put your babies in the care of strangers for so many hours each day? You conceived and bore them. You should raise them. There is NO substitute for the mother being the mother.

    My CAT gave more time and attention to raising her kittens than most humans I know. It seems like people are looking to be let off the hook on doing the most important job of their lives, the care of their own offspring.

    YOU should be the parent, not the teachers or the state. Find a way to stay home and raise your own children.

    Full day kindergarten for four year olds, my @ss! And, what is this pre-school bullroar? I have seen kids in public school still wearing diapers!! It's a shame on our society! Children need to be with their MOTHERS!!!

    If you feel it is imperative for your kids to read early so they won't be "behind", get off your duffus, walk over and turn off the television and TEACH them to read. It doesn't take a bloomin' genius to buy early reading books and teach them yourself. It will give you something fun to do together.

    Yeah, that means you would have to take a couple hours a day out of your important schedual to actually sit down and pay attention to your child yourself. Such a sacrifice, Mommy.

    The place where children learn the most important social skill of all, how to LOVE is in their own mothers arms!


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    [This message was edited by SSanf on March 12, 2004 at 09:04 AM.]

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    SSanf:

    You're not wildly unpopular with me.



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  23. #23
    Affiliate/AM Moonlighter dflsports's Avatar
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    SSanf,

    Holy crap, you are starting to make sense

    But please do not forget to include "dads" in your blanket statement We can do , and I do a fine job being the stay at home parent.

    I send my son to preschool but only 7.5 hours a week. He will be 5, Nov.14 which is 2 weeks before the cutoff to go to kindergarden but we will likely hold him back. He a smart little bugger but a little bad with following directions which we hope he will grow out of (and following the advice of his preschool teacher, she says he's very smart but not following directions well could hurt him in kindergarden)

    I do agree with SSanf in the fact that too many parents are letting strangers raise their children so they can drive big SUV's and live in $300,000+ houses. I know some folks need 2 incomes to provide the necessities of life.

    You should all watch the story of Conyers, GA that was on PBS once (6 or 7 years ago) A bunch of these kids, 12-16 years old, all were gang banging (SEX) and all contracted chlamydia see this link And their parents were all very "well off!" but the children were all latchkey kids and I bet these same kids were sent off to daycare (just an assumption)

    Learning just does not happen in schools, it happens at home too!

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador swampy_webber's Avatar
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    Ok, what just happened here? I think I actually agree with Ssanf

    I really need to see a therapist.

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  25. #25
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>OK, this is going to make me wildly unpopular, but here goes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Not unpopular here, either. When my oldest daughter was little, we found a lady in town to baby-sit her a couple of hours a few days a week just so she could be around other children. (We lived on a farm with no neighbors.) When she was ready to go to school, Kindergarten was a full day and it was obvious that she was still not ready to be away for so long each day. We tried it for a short time, but she became more and more sullen. We thought about sending her a half day and though I can't remember our thought process exactly, we decided to send her to school 3 days a week which worked out fine. There were some threats from the school district at first but they soon lost interest when we wouldn't back down and they realized that it would become a political interest if they pushed it.

    Second grade brought an incredible amount of required homework, far more than a 7 year old should have to endure and it interfered with gymnastics, Robyn's first love and any other after school activity.

    We became involved with a cooperative school nearby and she and her younger sister joined about 20 other students there. Their Mom was the school nurse & I taught arts & crafts, nature walks & house construction to 5 to 8 year olds one day per week. (Yes, house construction.) School was in a funky old house in the woods. Kindergarten was a half day in that school but usually the couple of kids in that grade preferred to hang around school anyway, especially since their mom, dad or siblings were there anyway.

    Wayne

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