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  1. #1
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    Exclamation 10,000 Offers Pending Your Approval!
    ok it was 50 something yesterday, today 35 but come on, this is ridiculous , I have to spend about 20 minutes each time I log in just to approve these offers. I really don't have time for this stupid procedure and they have only just started throwing so many offers up. Yes I do have a lot of merchants I promote but I have only had 3 or 4 offers a day at most until now. I never read the terms and if I did I would have to spend a whole day each day reading them. I don't use PPC anyway which is what most of them are about.

    What would happen if I just ignore all the offers, would some merchants drop me etc?
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  2. #2
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    Unless you are actually making sales ... then ignore them ... or better yet, send them an email back saying that due to the changes in your offer, I can no longer be affiliated with you ... however, if you wish to pay me a slotting fee plus commission, then maybe we can send you some traffic.

    If a merchant is converting traffic and you make sales and they send you a check every month ... keep them and accept their new offers.

    If not who cares if they have a new offer. I have seen at least a 1,000 new offers in the years I have been online and you can probably count the ones that were more beneficial to me on your fingers and toes.

    If I am in a good mood, I do not send them my patented 'nasty gram' which basically says, who cares, I have replaced your offer with your competitors and have bid on your trademarked and such prohibited words at a rate greater than you are paying.
    Have fun.

    What is most annoying is the time these people think you have to waste and the fact they think AFFILIATES are their employees. The just can't get it that I am not in the charity business.

  3. #3
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glinted
    What would happen if I just ignore all the offers, would some merchants drop me etc?
    There should be no negative impact. You really only need to respond if you want to decline the program changes.

    From CJ's Notification message:

    Advertiser Terms Changes Notification...
    ...Here's what you need to do: You can accept the updated offer immediately, or wait for it to automatically activate after the 7-day wait period. No action on your part is perceived as acceptance of the new terms.
    I typically ignore program changes unless I disagree with them and I've never had an issue with a merchant over it.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  4. #4
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    ok thanks for the feedback everyone. Rematt, that's great for confirming that as I had read something like that about 7 days but was a little unsure. What makes it worse is that the bigger brands etc often have the extra terms you have to click & read which makes it very time consuming. Now I will just ignore them all unless it is one of my top advertisers so I will still need to skim through them every few days to see which merchants are listing offers. But it has been insane in last few days with so many offers, I just hope this isn't going to be like this all the time now! As for making sales with them, yes I make sales for many of the companies at times while others might not convert, it would also be quite difficult to try and work through and remember which merchants sales have come through etc. But I will just ignore most of it now, rather be spending my time adding links etc that reading pages of Terms... As Net4biz said, we are not stupid employees and the last thing most of us want to do is spend all day reading or sifting through pages of writing & rules. Sometimes the people who do this sort of thing just don't have a clue, they work in their office as an employee for some company and they expect affiliates are like them, no we are not like you!
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  5. #5
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    It probably has to do with a change at CJ. They're getting rid of the keyword link and have added the ability to include PPC, trademark, and other terms of service issues on the merchants application.

    The keyword link expires at the end of August so it should go back to normal after that.

    Bob

  6. #6
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glinted
    Now I will just ignore them all unless it is one of my top advertisers so I will still need to skim through them every few days to see which merchants are listing offers. But I will just ignore most of it now, rather be spending my time adding links etc that reading pages of Terms... we are not stupid employees and the last thing most of us want to do is spend all day reading or sifting through pages of writing & rules.
    So a merchant updates terms because they no longer allow say PPC on their name or amend a type of promotion. By automatically allowing after 7 days you are legally saying ok to the term changes. So what if you carry on promoting in the way you have done in the past and it doesn't comply with the new terms. No defense saying you hadn't been notified and accepted the term. You did except you could not be bothered to read the terms in the first place. The most common I come across is a supplier wishes to protect their Brand and notifies the retailer of restrictions which they then enact in their terms. An affiliate breaking those terms reflects badly on the retailer.

    Quote Originally Posted by glinted
    Sometimes the people who do this sort of thing just don't have a clue, they work in their office as an employee for some company and they expect affiliates are like them, no we are not like you!
    An affiliate who is not diligent is a sloppy affiliate. If an affiliate is not diligent in their work and is promoting a merchant incorrectly through failure to observe promotional methods simply because they are not an "employee" and wish to exert their independence would I want that affiliate on any program I run? Hell no. If they're too lazy to check what's permitted on a program then they're not worth having on board as they're a liability.

  7. #7
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    So a merchant updates terms because they no longer allow say PPC on their name or amend a type of promotion. By automatically allowing after 7 days you are legally saying ok to the term changes. So what if you carry on promoting in the way you have done in the past and it doesn't comply with the new terms.
    As i said I don't use PPC and I don't think it's very productive to spend all day reading terms & conditions. What program do you run as I will jump out right away with your attitude? If a merchants wants to change the terms once a year etc then that is fine but gettings new terms once a week is just plain madness. The only lazy one around here is you, READ my posts and you might then understand what I was writing about!
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  8. #8
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    ...and read mine again. CJ has changed requirements and all merchants have updated or are updating.

    The example I was using is a serious one as your attitude can put a merchant out of business almost immediately.

    Regardless of the method of promotion, if a supplier to a retailer imposes restrictions on marketing then that information has to be conveyed to affiliates. If the affiliate is too lazy to read terms and conditions because they have better things to do and they carry on regardless, that supplier may refuse to supply the retailer and because you have failed to read and therefore abide by new terms, you are ultimately responsible for harming the merchant's business.

    My attitude stands.

  9. #9
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Oh and we run about 40 programs.

  10. #10
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    I find your accusations of calling me lazy very rude and you have still not bothered to read and comprehend what I have been saying. It is not laziness to not want to read more than 30 or 50 terms each day it is wanting to be productive with time. I would love to know the programs you say you manage, name one! Your exactly the type of affiliate manager I despise, you expect affiliates to play by your rules. How about listening to what people are saying instead of jumping to conclusions!

    Oh and we run about 40 programs.
    Really, well your very clever, would you like an award? Still waiting for you to name your programs...
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  11. #11
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    I am sure you know some of them. Oh wait, you won't as you don't bother to read term updates.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Jupp
    I am sure you know some of them. Oh wait, you won't as you don't bother to read term updates.
    Well affiliate managers who can't be open about their programs and be transparent are definitely the type I want to stay away from. There are many great AM's on this forum who are proud of their business and their programs, they are the type I will bother to join and want to spend time with.

    Scumbag affiliate managers who want us to shut up and put up and do what we are told won't stop me if I want to make my complaints about all these terms suddenly. If we can't ask questions in this industry and make some noise on issues then it's a real shame.
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  13. #13
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glinted
    Scumbag affiliate managers who want us to shut up and put up and do what we are told won't stop me if I want to make my complaints about all these terms suddenly.
    Not knocking you, just knocking your completely unprofessional attitude.

    By your own remarks I assume you are in effect saying "stuff you merchant, I will promote you the way I want and to hell with your lousy terms and restrictions." Well terms are there for a reason. If you cannot be bothered to read terms how then can a merchant know you will abide by those terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by glinted
    If we can't ask questions in this industry and make some noise on issues then it's a real shame.
    I am asking questions. I am asking why you consider that you can promote any merchant any way you want and to hell with the terms? You have a responsibility to read terms, abide by them and ensure that you faithfully represent a merchant properly. You say you haven't got time to read terms. I say you need to read terms to ensure you comply with approved marketing activity.

  14. #14
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    John, you have to agree that there's a right way and a wrong way to do just about everything. And just like your demonstration of the WRONG way to illustrate the importance of reading and understanding a merchant's terms, there is also a wrong way to update merchant terms. It appears that CJ and a good number of their merchants (present company included) attended the same class in how to alienate affiliates.

    In the world that I come from there's a little thing called planning. If as you say, a change in CJ terms has prompted merchants to change their terms, then this is the first place that a little "planning" could have helped. CJ, more than most should understand that an awful lot of affiliates promote an awful lot of merchant programs. Some more than a couple of hundred. Now lets just imagine that all of these merchants try to push new terms to affiliates at the same time. What do you think would happen? Now I understand that foresight doesn't appear to be one of your strong points, but just imagine....... Give up. Affiliates will get hit with hundreds of program updates at the same time. And what do you suppose will happen? You're right again. Us LAZY affiliates will will just stop running our businesses because you, CJ and a couple of thousand other merchants have zero vision.

    Let's add to that, the way these terms are being rolled out. Not one merchant that I promote has taken the time to actually outline what the changes are. Instead, we get a copy of their old terms and a copy of their new terms. We now get to compare the 2 documents to see what's changed. Wow, legal hide and seek. I can't remember when I've had this much fun.

    But you are right about one thing. It is important to understand what changes a merchant is rolling out. For the reasons that you outlined as well as the fact that there are merchants that have the same attitude as you, screw 'em if they can't do it my way. We need a way to identify you guys.

    ar·ro·gance
    Pronunciation: \ˈer-ə-gən(t)s, ˈa-rə-\
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    : an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions
    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  15. #15
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Yes I have a forthright manner but you are all seriously missing the point so I shall drop down a notch to make it easier for all.

    Merchants were given a due date to update all terms by the network.

    Terms suitably updated were issued.

    What seriously angers me is not the preponderance of terms being issued but the attitude that people cannot be bothered to read amended terms.

    I even gave a valid example whereby if a retailer is promoted in a prohibited manner by an affiliate that retailer can lose a supplier.

    How can a merchant know that an affiliate shall comply with any term changes? By reading them and accepting them perhaps? CJ went a stage further for people too busy to read there and then. They offered a 7 day automatic acceptance period. Giving affiliates sufficient time at their leisure to then peruse the term changes.

  16. #16
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Jupp
    Yes I have a forthright manner but you are all seriously missing the point so I shall drop down a notch to make it easier for all.

    Merchants were given a due date to update all terms by the network.
    No, you're missing the point, you condescending moth...(never mind, I'll stay on point). There's absolutely nothing forthright about not understanding the facts. I don't know when CJ's deadline is, but it seems that there are a number of merchants that have all decided that right now is the right time to push out terms (my guess is that they all waited until the last minute). So basically what you're saying is that their terms should be more important to me us they are to them, since they didn't bother to plan.

    Again, how fast can you read and comprehend a couple of hundred merchant agreements? Now this time think before you say something else stupid.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  17. #17
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Condescending moth replying....how many merchants do you think you can handle? If you're getting a couple of hundred then you must be confident you can promote them all....so wouldn't it be real neat to actually know how you can promote them and how you can't?

    Too many terms all at once. Ah diddums. My heart bleeds. Really it does. Obviously if someone is in that position they've taken on more than they can handle.

    With my affiliate hat on, when it got too much for me to do it all myself I employed a part timer to assist. I think it's called growth.

    With my management hat on, all merchants were given a short deadline.

  18. #18
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    As I said, a right way and a wrong way. It's obvious which camp you belong in. You really should list your programs in your sig. There probably are a few merchants I can do without.

    Ever heard the phrase "prior planning prevents poor performance"? Apparently not, I'm done with this argument unless you have something really new to add. I've got terms to read.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  19. #19
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    Since we have a little battle going here, I thought I'd throw in a few pennies devoid of any emotional attachment to this thread.

    I look at it this way. It's a VERY good thing that a merchant/network notifies us of modifications to their agreement with us. We spend a lot of time saying a "contract is a contract" around here, and for good reason. In fact, it is. So we need to be able to keep on top of these changes.

    And it's fair to say that a substantial number of affiliates have 100+ programs that they work with. Some maybe over a 1000. Let's use Mr. Coley as an example, since he's always willing to share how he approaches his business. How many merchants do you suppose are represented on his "flagship" site?

    Supposing all of the CJ merchants on that site made a modification to their terms in one week? Michael would have to pack a lunch, grab his wireless card and laptop, and sit under a tree somewhere for the better part of that day.

    And he's not alone.

    So, some quick points to merchants roped into the CJ system:

    1.) Make as many changes to your terms AT ONCE as you can, rather than doing it multiple times. Yes, there will be exceptions, but plan ahead.

    2.) OUTLINE the changes at the top of your terms. Make it easy for affiliates to identify what changes they are agreeing to.

    3.) UNDERSTAND that your affiliates aren't just promoting you. Hell, some of them might not even know they are promoting you. So see what they are going through each day as result of your changes, and those that CJ has made.

    Fair enough?
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  20. #20
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    One point here is that if affiliate managers want us to read their terms then that is quite reasonable but as outlined above there is a sensible way to do this. We can handle 3 or 4 terms a day but 30 or 50 a day will mean no one will bother reading them! I often get up to 10 a day at other times which is also still too much as many of these merchants are the same ones changing terms every few weeks and it must be even worse for affiliates with thousands of merchants. This also makes it unfair for merchants who do respect affiliates time and only change terms on more realistic basis as their terms may not be getting read. I think bringing this out in the open to discuss is much better than shutting up about it which is what John Jupp seemed to be wanting earlier.
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  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    I'm signed up to tons of merchants, and am getting tons of these now.

    I try to get to the merchants first that I am actively making sales for - or have things planned for them. Some of the others, I may never get to, or at least before the next one they send.

    I do little or no ppc, so that part of it doesn't affect me. When I do try a little ppc, I tend to look for a 'stable' merchant.

  22. #22
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    I'm a new affiliate and I have recently got a ton of these from CJ. truthfully I don't really understand what they mean. I'm beginning to see that the " legal" deck is definitly stacked in favor of the merchants I promote. So I feel they could at least give me the courtesy of an explanation of the program changes in "Plain English."

    Not only do I have to take the time to read about the changes but then attempt to translate and compare as I go

  23. #23
    Full Member snappy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin
    Since we have a little battle going here, I thought I'd throw in a few pennies devoid of any emotional attachment to this thread.

    I look at it this way. It's a VERY good thing that a merchant/network notifies us of modifications to their agreement with us. We spend a lot of time saying a "contract is a contract" around here, and for good reason. In fact, it is. So we need to be able to keep on top of these changes.

    And it's fair to say that a substantial number of affiliates have 100+ programs that they work with. Some maybe over a 1000. Let's use Mr. Coley as an example, since he's always willing to share how he approaches his business. How many merchants do you suppose are represented on his "flagship" site?

    Supposing all of the CJ merchants on that site made a modification to their terms in one week? Michael would have to pack a lunch, grab his wireless card and laptop, and sit under a tree somewhere for the better part of that day.

    And he's not alone.

    So, some quick points to merchants roped into the CJ system:

    1.) Make as many changes to your terms AT ONCE as you can, rather than doing it multiple times. Yes, there will be exceptions, but plan ahead.

    2.) OUTLINE the changes at the top of your terms. Make it easy for affiliates to identify what changes they are agreeing to.

    3.) UNDERSTAND that your affiliates aren't just promoting you. Hell, some of them might not even know they are promoting you. So see what they are going through each day as result of your changes, and those that CJ has made.

    Fair enough?
    Yes and easy to understand thanks......
    I only read thru the merchants that I work withs term changes......even though from 3 of my merchants and I love how I say my merchants lol i received raises!!! :P Hence the good of reading thru each one.......that I am active with!!! If I worked with a few hundred then I could see the issue, but I am small beans compared to many of you
    I attract success and abundance into my life because that is who I am.

  24. #24
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    On the flip side: the good thing about offers is that they are an easy way to keep in touch. I'd rather have one of those CJ offers that I can click approval to in order to express an interest than a lengthy e-mail telling me of a change in the merchant's TOS.
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  25. #25
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    It does seem you will need to read each one and either accept or not the terms manually. I just read this emai:

    Last week, Vistaprint added special terms and conditions to all program terms outlining their Search, Social Media and PR Policies. This is an important reminder that you must accept your pending offer from Vistaprint before tomorrow.
    If you do not accept the program term before tomorrow, you will no longer be active in the Vistaprint Affiliate Program.
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