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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Unethical merchants - What can be done?
    Hello,

    Is there something we can do about merchants which are cancelling nearly "all" sales and leads regardless of their status? Can we report them to SAS or to this support forum and if we give their names, will SAS do something about them? (did you do something like this before? any experience?)

    I know that the best punishment is to stop promoting them (which I already did) but from the viewpoint of SAS, why are they still allowed to be active with Reversal Rates of 133.33%. I know that SAS can not receive any comission because they cancel nearly every sale and affiliates are not also getting anything.

    I have 2 merhcant accounts with SAS with zero reversal rates (I will open 2 others soon) and I can not find any reasonable answer to these kind of reversal rates which are even above 100%. There should be 2 reasons:

    1- They are not honest and they are trying to run their program with the same money by cancelling all sales and re-cycle with the same investment.

    2- The sales are really cancelled by their customers so they have to reverse the sale. Still, even in this case, the merchant should be warned because their site is selling either the worst product in the world which "all" of their customers want a refund or their site have misleading information about the products or services they sell.

    I attached screenshot of the "reversal rate" of the merchant "8218" (and a screenshot of one of my merhant accounts). Do you think that this merchant is honest?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Newbie IAmMe's Avatar
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    If you're a crooked merchant, and want to rip off affiliates and networks, SAS is the place for you..

  3. #3
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    They might also be reversing sales that came from affiliates breaking their TOS. Are they reversing *your* sales, or you are just seeing them with high reversal rates? There are both unethical reasons and very legitimate reasons for high reversals.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAmMe
    If you're a crooked merchant, and want to rip off affiliates and networks, SAS is the place for you..
    This is misleading because high reversals happen in merchants across all the networks.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  5. #5
    Newbie IAmMe's Avatar
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    I've run into a couple merchants that cancelled every order I sent them. Then, after switching to a different merchant, that same 100% reversal rate dropped to a more typical 1 to 5%.. The original merchant was quite clearly scamming me, and Shareasale.

    Fast forward almost 14 months.. The same merchant is with Shareasale, and currently shows a reversal rate of 94%...

    Shareasale has no backbone when it comes to dealing with merchants that are intentionally cheating the system..

  6. #6
    Newbie IAmMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    This is misleading because high reversals happen in merchants across all the networks.
    Shareasale's 'anything goes' attitude allows merchants to get away with stuff that would never be tolerated on other networks.

  7. #7
    ShareASale President/CEO and ABW Veteran Brian - ShareASale's Avatar
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    Mybest,

    I'll check it out with them and see what the story is. Usually, with high reversals, there is an underlying problem with the type of customer being sent to the offer.

    For example, if an affiliate runs and incentive or loyalty program and sends traffic to a merchant with a free trial - this can generate huge reversals because those types of customers are not likely to stay on their system, etc...

    There are also examples where merchant do all their voids at a certain point during the month which creates high reversal rates for those times over others, etc...

    IAmMe,

    If you want to forward me the details on what happened with those merchants I'd be more than happy to follow up with them and see what was going on. My email is brian @ shareasale
    Thanks,

    Brian Littleton
    President/CEO - ShareASale.com, Inc.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAmMe
    Shareasale's 'anything goes' attitude allows merchants to get away with stuff that would never be tolerated on other networks.
    Apparently you are dissatisfied with Shareasale, which is your perogative, however a lot of worse "stuff" gets tolerated on the other networks. I could list many threads here on that topic, but you won't be listening.

    If you have proof that a merchant is scamming or being unethical, report it to Shareasale to investigate.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAmMe
    Shareasale's 'anything goes' attitude allows merchants to get away with stuff that would never be tolerated on other networks.
    That's bs! Why don't you name the merchant?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    They might also be reversing sales that came from affiliates breaking their TOS. Are they reversing *your* sales, or you are just seeing them with high reversal rates? There are both unethical reasons and very legitimate reasons for high reversals.
    Hi loxly. It seems that they are reversing all sales. You can search the merchant with the number "8218" and see yourself.

    Can I give the name of the merhant? I din't want to give any name at first because there is still a little chance for an explanation. If everyone think the same as me about the current reversal rates, I will give thier name so the other affiliates don't get scammed.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador writerguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAmMe
    If you're a crooked merchant, and want to rip off affiliates and networks, SAS is the place for you..
    Pretty harsh. Evidence? Story to tell about it?

    I know except for quite a flurry of posts made a few months back about SAS and toolbar policies, SAS has had a reputation here at ABW for being one of the absolute top networks for merchants AND affiliates.

    Would be interested in knowing why you made that statement.
    Generate more fake news.

  12. #12
    ShareASale President/CEO and ABW Veteran Brian - ShareASale's Avatar
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    Can I suggest we all slow down?

    MyBest is reporting the problem to me, and we are checking on it.

    I invited IAmMe to do the same.

    It's only been an hour total - so lets see if we can solve some problems first ...
    Thanks,

    Brian Littleton
    President/CEO - ShareASale.com, Inc.

  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    Ok here is what I don't get about this...

    Why would any merchant reverse a sale that is not warranted? Cheapness aside, high reversal rates means no new affiliates and current ones leaving, so it's not a long-term strategy.

    I do everything to avoid reversing sales...only on returns or fraud. Thankfully, that is rare.

    If the reversal rate is too high, don't sign-up. If you are being screwed, I can understand, but otherwise, the merchant is crippling themselves and will pay for their mistakes.

    Sometimes, the stats can be misleading though. A smaller merchant could potentially have a high 7-day reversal rate because they only make 2 sales a week and process reversals at the end of the month. One bad affiliate who sent 3 bogus sales 2 weeks ago could mean the reversal rate is 150% the week they are reversed.

    The same could happen if a particular merchant is susceptible to fraud in short periods of time. As long as it is not you getting screwed, I would assume this was the case.

    I am not saying this is what happened here...it doesn't look like it.

    Also, perhaps some industries just have a high return rate. If the merchant makes up for this in high commissions and initial conversions, I don't see a problem.

    For the record, our reversal rate is 0% too and I doubt it will ever be above 0.2-0.5%.
    Matt McWilliams
    Call Me At: (317) 825-8826 | Follow Me On Twitter: @MattMcWilliams2 | Connect With Me On LinkedIn

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mybest
    Hi loxly. It seems that they are reversing all sales. You can search the merchant with the number "8218" and see yourself.

    Can I give the name of the merhant? I din't want to give any name at first because there is still a little chance for an explanation. If everyone think the same as me about the current reversal rates, I will give thier name so the other affiliates don't get scammed.
    I had a look! Really, if you believe what this "merchant" is saying, I wonder what you're doing. Forget them. Move on. Affiliate Marketing is not about scamming others with scummy "merchants".

    An affiliate using such "merchant" on their websites is as much guilty as the "merchant". The choice is yours.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian - ShareASale
    Mybest,

    I'll check it out with them and see what the story is. Usually, with high reversals, there is an underlying problem with the type of customer being sent to the offer.

    For example, if an affiliate runs and incentive or loyalty program and sends traffic to a merchant with a free trial - this can generate huge reversals because those types of customers are not likely to stay on their system, etc...

    There are also examples where merchant do all their voids at a certain point during the month which creates high reversal rates for those times over others, etc...

    IAmMe,

    If you want to forward me the details on what happened with those merchants I'd be more than happy to follow up with them and see what was going on. My email is brian @ shareasale

    Brian,

    Because of the reason you already mentioned, we only promoting those kind of sites with banner impressions only. This is the banner impressions which we sent to the merchant's site in the last few month:

    Impressions: 12.209.887 Clicks: 29.610 CTR: 0,24%

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    I had a look! Really, if you believe what this "merchant" is saying, I wonder what you're doing. Forget them. Move on. Affiliate Marketing is not about scamming others with scummy "merchants".

    An affiliate using such "merchant" on their websites is as much guilty as the "merchant". The choice is yours.
    Zeus, please slow down, we are only trying to find a solution to a simple problem, it's not a war


    "An affiliate using such "merchant" on their websites is as much guilty as the "merchant". "
    If we start these kind of discussions, it may end up like this:

    An "Affiliate Network" allowing such "merchant" on their network is as much guilty as the "merchant".

    Continue...

    An "Affiliate" (if you are an affiliate of SAS) using such guilty "Affiliate Network" on their sites is as much guilty as the "Affiliate Network".

    and this goes on like this...

    There is no point of blaming about everything.

    "Shareasale is the one of the best Affiliate Networks" you can find around (on-time payments, support, lots of merchants etc.).

    It's both my responsibility and my right (as an affiliate and merchant of SAS) to report something which I believe is wrong and this is what I am doing. Please respect the topic, let's talk about the problem.

  17. #17
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    I'm curious to see who this 8028 merchant is. It's not on my merchant list. But I tried to search for 8028, it came out nothing. Hmm, how do you guys locate a merchant with numbers?

  18. #18
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayfly
    I'm curious to see who this 8028 merchant is. It's not on my merchant list. But I tried to search for 8028, it came out nothing. Hmm, how do you guys locate a merchant with numbers?
    http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale...erchantID=8218

    Just change the number at the end
    Matt McWilliams
    Call Me At: (317) 825-8826 | Follow Me On Twitter: @MattMcWilliams2 | Connect With Me On LinkedIn

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMcWilliams
    Thanks! Good to know that.
    Now let's get back to the topic...

  20. #20
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayfly
    I'm curious to see who this 8028 merchant is. It's not on my merchant list. But I tried to search for 8028, it came out nothing. Hmm, how do you guys locate a merchant with numbers?
    I specially didn't give their name because I believe that I have to wait until Brian investigate the merchant's status (SAS staff can see much more than what we see).

    It would not be fair to give the merchant's name at first. This forum is very important for search engines such as google and it will be cached and indexed with the merchant's name. If I am wrong and Brian finds that the merchant have a good repuation and they only cancelled my sales, it would be just a revenge for me. My aim is not revenge or punishing the merchant by using this forum (I already stopped to promote them). I am only reporting something which I believe is wrong. If it is confirmed by other affiliates or SAS staff, then the name of the merchant should be given for other affiliates.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    Yes, thanks for finding that one also. It ended up with this:

    -----------------
    Ok, There are some news about this subject so I wanted to update the topic. After investigating the problem SaS found that I was right about my concern and forced the merchant to fix it. My guess was correct, their system was posting double confirmation for each sale, one with the correct amount and one with the "0". According to which one received first, SaS' system was updating the total earnings, sometimes correctly and sometimes wrong (because "0" was added to the total even though the sale was tracked correctly). Thanks to SaS who took my warning serious and investigate it.
    -----------------

    So this is a good example that we have to report what we believe is wrong. (problem was corrected by SAS)

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