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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    Is it in the plans CJ? Sorry but "other" hardly seems like a proper reason. Can we not have the merchants provide us the real reasons for reversals?

    WW [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

    It was so cold last winter that I saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.

  2. #2
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    I agree, there should be a "reason".

  3. #3
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    I think you have to have "other" because the minute you eliminate it, there's going to be some queer reason that doesn't fit into any of the options on a pre-determined list.

    What I think should happen is that there is a text box that MUST be completed to select other and the reason should go in the text box.

    -------
    Dawn is nature's way of telling you to go to bed.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    As I have always said, CJ fuctions solely with merchants in mind. For example if a merchant doesn't want to pay a commission all he/she has to do it click on the reverse option, what they should be made do is fill out a report form for each reversal explaining in detail why the sale was reversed. If each form takes up a couple of minutes of the merchants time then they'll think twice. Just think of how much we are all scamed out of each month by trigger happy merchants.

  5. #5
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    >>Just think of how much we are all scamed out of each month by trigger happy merchants.<<

    I have plenty of CJ merchants and I have yet to find evidence that ANY of them are scamming me out of anything.

    -------
    Dawn is nature's way of telling you to go to bed.

  6. #6
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    I also have a large number of CJ merchants.
    Everytime a merchant uses the reason "other"
    for a reversal I request an explanation.
    About 1/2 of them respond.
    The nonresponders are on my suspects list.
    JT Century make have pulled a quickie before
    they closed down.
    Lots of fertile minds on the internet and a few
    may be bad seeds.
    I feel it is the cost of doing a really fun business

    Jakpot

  7. #7
    15 years and counting
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    >>Just think of how much we are all scamed out of each month by trigger happy merchants.<<
    I still have a lot of "others" as reversal reason. Even if I think most CJ merchants are OK, the word "others" make them look bad. CJ SHOULD do something for that. There's not so many REAL reasons for reversal.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Cedric wrote:

    quote:
    What I think should happen is that there is a text box that MUST be completed to select other and the reason should go in the text box.


    Absolutely. In order for CJ to truly be a "trusted third party" they must look after the interests on BOTH sides of the fence. To allow a merchant an easy out of "other" is not in the best interests of the publisher.

    Perhaps a more detailed reason should be required of merchants that have received a lot of complaints from customers. This would put them on notice that CJ--and their publishers--are watching them.

    Andy

  9. #9
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    They run out of ideas for reversing our commissions.

  10. #10
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Even as a merchant - OTHER - really others me. I always want to be able to add reasons to the note, but there is nowhere to do it. Sometimes there are issues that don't fit in any of the other very limited reversal categories. Since I am also an affiliate, I know that OTHER would make me question these reversals.

    I'm calling CJ right now to see if they can add a text box that requires some additional comments if OTHER is selected. Let you know what they say.

    Linda
    ProSound and Stage Lighting
    www.pssl.com
    www.catalystEmarketing.com

  11. #11
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Just talked to CJ. They were very helpful and receptive (as I have found they always are!)
    They are looking into it and will post a reply to this thread as soon as they have an answer.

    Linda
    ProSound and Stage Lighting
    www.pssl.com
    www.catalystEmarketing.com

  12. #12
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    A said above, if we remove "other" as a reason, advertisers will just pick a reason that isn't applicable and use it instead. We can never create enough reasons to cover "other". It would also not be possible to add a note when using "other" becasue most advertiser submit bulk corrections and do not reverse them one at a time (i.e. manually).

    I will submit a request to evaluate the reversal reasons we currently have and see if there are additional reasons we could add or if we should remove "other" as a reason.

    Out of curiosity, do any of the other solution providers provide reasons for reversals? If so, what do they state as the reasons?

    thanks,

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Cedric:
    I have plenty of CJ merchants and I have yet to find evidence that ANY of them are scamming me out of anything.



    How can you find evidence that you were not scammed when merchants are allowed to reverse in bulk? "Other" is not a satisfactory reason and merchants MUST be made give detailed reasons for reversals.

  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Todd,

    quote:
    Out of curiosity, do any of the other solution providers provide reasons for reversals? If so, what do they state as the reasons?


    SaS uses:
    Invalid CC
    Returned Merchandise
    Fradulent Transaction
    Repeat Order
    Incorrect Amount
    Test Transaction
    Non-Fulfilled Requirements
    Self-Referral
    Non qualified lead
    Cancelled Order
    Incomplete Registration
    Other


    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  15. #15
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    IMO reversals should require an email contact from the Merchant, er at least I think they could do that if they were interested in better affiliate relations.

    Also regarding companies like zappos where they have a customer friendly return policy, they IMO should pay us a small lead fee to replace the lost sale commission.

    "I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    most advertiser submit bulk corrections and do not reverse them one at a time (i.e. manually).



    Dumb question here Todd, but are they getting that many order reversals at once they can't update each one manually, or at least the ones that dont have a reason for within parameters that you list.
    Was stated someone thought this was about scamming and it is NOT. I am only trying to see about finding a better way to report reversals so we aren't left wondering what is going on.

    WW

    It was so cold last winter that I saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.

  17. #17
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    Who is SaS?

    Walleye Warrior,

    If an advertiser tracks thousands of sales per month, it is far easier to transmit a cancelled order file than to go through them in our interface and reverse them manually. I am certain that any advertiser with more than a few hundred sales a month, regardless of the solution provider, submits their corrections via a file.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Todd,

    SaS = Shareasale.com

    How is the pinky?

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Linda, We have brought up the supject before of CJ adding a spot where the merchant can actually type in a reason for reversal if they so desired. Obviously CJ just saw it as a trivial post. Maybe with a merchant requesting it something might get done. Some day maybe the affiliates opinions will matter also.

    Thanks for taking the time Linda! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Affiliate Programs That Kick Major Butt

  20. #20
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    DaPackster,

    You're welcome. I also have my own company and am an affilate too, so I can see both sides of all the issues. Even if I was not an affiliate though - I strongly believe every high integrity business relationship needs to be a WIN - WIN.
    And sales rejected for a reason called OTHER is not a WIN for anyone.

    Back to wearing by Merchant hat again - for CJ's benefit I will say this. Because I feel so uncomfortable offering OTHER as a reason for reversal - I have been sending individual emails to affiliates explaining why the sale was reversed and offering documentation of the order if they want to see it. Our program is growing so fast I don't have time to continue doing this because we are getting so many orders & new affiliates.

    Luckily I rarely have to reverse sales but what I would like to CJ implement is:
    1) More reversal reasons to select from(as stated in above post.)
    2) Note field in OTHER for additional explanation.

    I have faith in CJ and believe they will try their best to improve things for the benefit of merchants AND affiliates.

    Linda
    Affiliate Manager
    ProSound and Stage Lighting
    www.pssl.com
    Entrepreneur
    www.catalystEmarketing.com

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Cedric:
    >>Just think of how much we are all scamed out of each month by trigger happy merchants.<<

    I have plenty of CJ merchants and I have yet to find evidence that ANY of them are scamming me out of anything.

    -------
    Dawn is nature's way of telling you to go to bed.


    FYI read the following post from EcomCity.com, "My neighbor bought a Sony notebook and extra battery pack from eCost off one of my Mall links while I was at his house. It shipped fine with the notebook arriving one day after the battery pack. Sales credit was shown but reversed 5 days later with the reason "other". My brothers oldest son bought a replacement rocket launcher kit and extra fuel from eHobbies.com from my Malls hobby shop while at my house. The sale never showed up."

    You can find the whole thread by clicking here

  22. #22
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    Is there ever any analysis done on how many merchants are reversing using "other" as a reason and compare that with charge-back percentage of that merchant?

    It might be interesting to not allow merchants that have a high charge back percentage to reverse transactions without CJ approval, or even notifying the affiliate directly as to the reason of the reversal.

    http://www.ahugedeal.com

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    I know that for us we never use "other" for a reversal reason. If it's fraud we bundle it under "Invalid Credit Card". Out of our 8% reversal rate only about .2% is for actual returned merchandise. The rest is fraud or credit limits on the cc's. There really is no need for "other" IMHO.

    Akiva Bergstrom
    Business Development
    akiva@essentialapparel.com
    800-556-2937 ext 751
    www.essentialapparel.com

  24. #24
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Akiva I sure would like to get someone like you over at the king of all things reversed zappos.con

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Cedric:
    >>Just think of how much we are all scamed out of each month by trigger happy merchants.<<

    I have plenty of CJ merchants and I have yet to find evidence that ANY of them are scamming me out of anything.




    Maybe you are just blessed Cedric. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    But I can say, with 99.9% certainty, if you never look, you'll never find it. It is possible you could just discover it by accident, but the odds of that are almost nil. But unless you are looking for it, you won't find it.

    We have, and we have found scamming in the form of carts that don't work, affiliate code switching, (not by ebates, or other such app, but by the merchant) and unreported sales.

    Also, I think it depends on your definition of "scamming." If we use the example of reversing a sale because they don't want to pay the commission on it, you would NEVER have the evidence, because you don't control that data. Only the merchant does. W/o a mole, no one would be able to prove it.

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

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