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  1. #1
    Full Member KODea's Avatar
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    PPC Google Adwords.. Poor Quality Score
    I stopped advertising with Google about 6 or 8 months ago. I'm a small advertiser but I usually spent anywhere from 2-3K with adwords each month.
    My ROI/conversions was very high with Google for years but I kept getting
    quality score issues and never was able to correct it. My organic search results for the keywords that I advertised with adwords get page 1-3 results. I'm doing ok with my business but no where like before. My question is does anybody know of a company that specializes in helping someone like myself with PPC advertising. Thanks in advance.

    Kevin

  2. #2
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
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    Kevin,

    Question, have you been adjusting your bids as the years progressed?

    Reason, as there are more and more people joining Google PPC, it is more competitive. Some new comers will bid 100% over the highest bid and if you have 3 new people bidding at that level, guess what, they officially raised the bar and if you were the highest bidder previously, you are not now and will get less clicks as you will be delegated to show up on 4-6 spot.

    As the quality score is a black box and comprises of many elements with one of them as the CTR. Low CTR will affect your score.

    Here are some tips:
    1) Raise your bid
    2) At the same time, launch / test a few different Ads.
    *New Ads will often have a above avg quality score if the bids are competitive.
    3) Monitor the results, turn off non performing KW and Ads.
    4) Test again.

    Another question to think about is:
    Does your strategy involves around ranking #1 on PPC and #1 on SEO for the term "light bulbs". If you rank #1 on SEO, do you want to waste $$ on PPC. It depends on your outlook and your pocket.

    I do some PPC consulting pro bone for non-profit org and those are my personal views.

    All the best

  3. #3
    SEO: A Specialty - Web Design: Slow or outsourced andbeyond's Avatar
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    Ya there are many PPC companies that manage G Adwords account for people.

    It is a bit of a black art to make Google like your account.

    Increasing CTR or at least keeping the same is a big part of it like Eric said. Personally I dont like just universally raising bids. It seems like Google really gets you running on the hamster wheel then.

    Here is an image of a graph of CPC on an account we took over.



    It is quite clear there was a dramatic change in January of 09. Guess when the mods were done? Same time.

    Not trying to spam the boards just showing that some SEO/PPC firms are legit.

    Most will charge about 15 to 20% of the total spend to manage it. And your spend is big enough that it is an account most smaller firms could manage.

    They could also help make sure Google Analytics or some other tracking is working well.

    Good Luck!

  4. #4
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    Ok, I am going to stop reading other people's posts, there is nothing wrong with them and they are good and bad advice, but will also get you to waste a ton of money and possibly loose sales.

    The Quality Score Algorithm takes a million things into account and I actually decrease CTR and still increase my quality score big time. High CTRs without High Conversions mean a ton of wasted money. That is the very last thing to focus on and don't even bother with it until you get your seriously high converting terms, then increase the CTR with them.

    Focus on your landing pages, your ads, your advanced matching and negatives and you'll be fine. You can also write me, send me a pm for my info and I'll help you out but do not just increase your CTR or you will more than likely loose a ton of money.
    Adam Riemer Marketing, LLC. Online Marketing Blog and Affiliate Management Company
    Do you need help with your Marketing or Sales funneling, write me at adamr (at) adamriemer (dot) me

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by andbeyond
    Most will charge about 15 to 20% of the total spend to manage it. And your spend is big enough that it is an account most smaller firms could manage.
    I disagree, many will do 10% even the best known ones and they cap between 5K and 7K a month to prove they are not just after your money. Others will do performance based, but you have to foot the adwords bill and they collect a percentage of the net after spend that they brought in. Find one that works with your model but never pay more than 10-12% and without a cap.
    Adam Riemer Marketing, LLC. Online Marketing Blog and Affiliate Management Company
    Do you need help with your Marketing or Sales funneling, write me at adamr (at) adamriemer (dot) me

  6. #6
    Full Member KODea's Avatar
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    I don't have enough posts to PM anybody. If someone would like to e-mail me my address is kodea@rochester.rr.com. Thanks, Kevin

  7. #7
    SEO: A Specialty - Web Design: Slow or outsourced andbeyond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollerblader
    I disagree, many will do 10% even the best known ones and they cap between 5K and 7K a month to prove they are not just after your money. Others will do performance based, but you have to foot the adwords bill and they collect a percentage of the net after spend that they brought in. Find one that works with your model but never pay more than 10-12% and without a cap.
    I have never seen a cap on the high end. Some people will cap on a particular account like spend is $3000 normal bill is $450, cap even in Christmas time is $600.

    But some companies spend a quarter million a month on Adwords, would you manage that for $5k? If so you would probably feel used. I dont think most firms with experience will work on a smaller account at 10%, in fact when you get right down to it a lot of big firms have a minimum spend of $15,000 to $25,000 a month and will still want at least 15%.

    PPC management is not easy and some clients are nightmares.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by andbeyond
    I have never seen a cap on the high end. Some people will cap on a particular account like spend is $3000 normal bill is $450, cap even in Christmas time is $600.

    But some companies spend a quarter million a month on Adwords, would you manage that for $5k? If so you would probably feel used. I dont think most firms with experience will work on a smaller account at 10%, in fact when you get right down to it a lot of big firms have a minimum spend of $15,000 to $25,000 a month and will still want at least 15%.

    PPC management is not easy and some clients are nightmares.
    Clients can be nightmares at times and the stress makes you want to charge 50% but at the same time the actual management is really not that hard or difficult. I manage and have managed campaigns that spend over 150K per month and in all honesty, the management of it was probably worth maybe 1200 per month. If you know what you are doing you can do it easy....I'm not saying you are not or you don't know what you are doing, but I think that is way to high to charge because of how easy it really is....the only hard part and long time taking part is building out and rebuilding or restructuring campaigns. If you have to build the campaigns out or restructure them because they are a mess, then yes, charge a lot more the first month since that will take a ton of work, but if it is just management that is way to high. We're going to have to disagree on this one.
    Adam Riemer Marketing, LLC. Online Marketing Blog and Affiliate Management Company
    Do you need help with your Marketing or Sales funneling, write me at adamr (at) adamriemer (dot) me

  9. #9
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    I am going to agree with Rollerblader here. I snubbed most PPC managements firms for 2 reasons a) exposing your KWs b) at least 10 to 15% fee + minimum.

  10. #10
    SEO: A Specialty - Web Design: Slow or outsourced andbeyond's Avatar
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    Rollerblader you have not really stated that you charged a 1% fee for a client. You said that it is was maybe worth that. Maybe it was. Maybe it was a dream account from someone that knew you personally. Maybe you were doing other work for them on a retainer basis and you included PPC work.

    The lowest rate I have ever heard of was 7% and I know the company and agency and I would not do it for that rate.

    The industry has a few different ways to charge. None are perfect but I like the amount of spend as it is quick, easy to determine and I don't have to worry about things outside my control such as onsite conversion rates or credit card processing and chargebacks.

    The industry typically charges on a percentage rate especially on the first year or so with a client and it is about 15%. http://searchengineland.com/search-m...g-models-11039

    Lawyers Charge 33%
    Billboard Ad Agenices charge 15% of spend
    Real Estate Agents charge 6%

    I have no problems or guilt with charging 15 to 20%

  11. #11
    Online Marketing Consultant
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    Quote Originally Posted by andbeyond
    Rollerblader you have not really stated that you charged a 1% fee for a client. You said that it is was maybe worth that. Maybe it was. Maybe it was a dream account from someone that knew you personally. Maybe you were doing other work for them on a retainer basis and you included PPC work.

    The lowest rate I have ever heard of was 7% and I know the company and agency and I would not do it for that rate.

    The industry has a few different ways to charge. None are perfect but I like the amount of spend as it is quick, easy to determine and I don't have to worry about things outside my control such as onsite conversion rates or credit card processing and chargebacks.

    The industry typically charges on a percentage rate especially on the first year or so with a client and it is about 15%. http://searchengineland.com/search-m...g-models-11039

    Lawyers Charge 33%
    Billboard Ad Agenices charge 15% of spend
    Real Estate Agents charge 6%

    I have no problems or guilt with charging 15 to 20%
    Ok, like I said we will have to disagree. First off, I said that is what it was worth, the work was easy, not what I charged. Please read more carefully.

    What you are saying is way to high to charge. The article you showed is also a couple years old and that same ad agency that posted that article also caps their fees at 5K or 7K and follows my model. I know it because one of my old Clients used to use them for search. The model that you are pitching in my mind rips off and overcharges Clients (I'm not saying you rip them off, just the model in my mind is a ripoff) when in reality it really isn't that much work to manage a PPC campaign... Like I said, we are going to have to disagree and I'll continue with my pricing models and you can continue with yours. The most important thing is that our Clients are happy.
    Adam Riemer Marketing, LLC. Online Marketing Blog and Affiliate Management Company
    Do you need help with your Marketing or Sales funneling, write me at adamr (at) adamriemer (dot) me

  12. #12
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    Let's not debate about PPC companies.

    I did part ways with a PPC consultancy cos they knew nothing and were outsourcing it to India as I found out traces of reports generated by numerous Indian names and/or foreign domains. I brought it in-house and cut cost per conversion by over 60% and grew the volume big time . I also know there are PPC companies out there that can do amazing things too.

    What Rollerblader said is right too. There are million things that goes into a SCORE. Maybe not a million but quite a few variables. In order to focus on the landing page, etc. You need to have it tied back to the Google PPC tracking code. If not, all is futile.

    I still stand behind my thoughts about my 4 golden tips
    Sorry Adam.

    Here is another tip. A new KW is assigned a SEVEN (7) for Quality Score.

    Based on what I mention above, take it and play with it. No golden spoons here

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