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  1. #1
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    Google Is An Affiliate - Product Listing Ads
    Not a surprise to many people. In another thread, some of us were talking about what we were seeing in the Google SERPS and product links and such and there was some discussion of what that was. There was a post from Google back on November 11th on their blog -

    http://adwords.blogspot.com/2009/11/...sting-ads.html

    Pay only for results: Product Listing Ads are charged on a cost-per-action (CPA) basis, which means that you only pay when a user clicks on your ad and completes a purchase on your site. Because Product Listing Ads is charged on a CPA basis, it offers a risk-free way for you to reach a larger audience on Google.com.

  2. #2
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    We have to start considering Google as a competitor. An unfair competitor.
    Affiliates should stop using AdWords and quit promoting GAN merchants.

  3. #3
    Half a Bubble Off Plumb RemodelingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    We have to start considering Google as a competitor. An unfair competitor.
    Affiliates should stop using AdWords and quit promoting GAN merchants.
    Great idea!

    So what are the alternatives to Adwords?.

    I could give a rat's petooty about GAN.

    I've got PPC campaigns going on on EVERYTHING imaginable and Goog gives me highest ROI by far!

    Let's not even talk about the volume I need to see a serious profit.

    I appreciate and respect your hate for Goog, but they have made themselves a pretty invaluable money making tool in my world.

    Jimmy McDonald - Your Local Hard Working RemodelingGuy ( & SprinklerGuy - & GarageGuy )
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  4. #4
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    I don't hate Google as a search engine. But, I don't help companies involved in unfair practices. I try to spend my money wisely (even if it costs me more).
    I'm not the best person to recommend an alternative for AdWords. I don't pay for my traffic. What's the average profit sharing with Google AdWords? 80/20 or 90/10... The bulk of profit is always for Google. It's too much for them and I don't like it.

  5. #5
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    This doesn't surprise me.
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  6. #6
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RemodelingGuy
    I appreciate and respect your hate for Goog, but they have made themselves a pretty invaluable money making tool in my world.
    The proverbial bull-in-a-china-shop comment coming yet again from RG.

    We know you love Google. You've scrawled it across walls. But for affiliates, they are a problem. Why can't you just admit it? This isn't about "hating" Google - it's about having to deal with a company that has no respect for its affiliates whatsoever.

    And really RG, I would really hate to see you suffer what many have suffered in their efforts to do business w/ these guys. You seem so entwined with them - which time after time has been shown as a dangerous place to be. I hope you have a plan B in place, just in case. It's not an impossible scenario ya know...
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  7. #7
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    From the link Trust posted -
    "At this time, Product Listing Ads is still a beta feature and is only available to a limited number of retail advertisers. Over time, we'll increase the number of users who see Product Listing Ads as well as the number of advertisers able to participate."

    How would you like to be one of their merchants that WAS NOT chosen for this new program -- right in the middle of the busiest buying season ----

    I know how I would react.

    Example - Outdoor Hunting Gear -

    http://www.google.com/search?q=outdoor+hunting+gear&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

    Nice product ads, but none from their merchant, Cabelas.

    And I can't help but wonder what users aren't seeing the ads? Does anyone not see them?
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeann
    From the link Trust posted -
    "At this time, Product Listing Ads is still a beta feature and is only available to a limited number of retail advertisers. Over time, we'll increase the number of users who see Product Listing Ads as well as the number of advertisers able to participate."

    How would you like to be one of their merchants that WAS NOT chosen for this new program -- right in the middle of the busiest buying season ----

    I know how I would react.

    Example - Outdoor Hunting Gear -

    http://www.google.com/search?q=outdoor+hunting+gear&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

    Nice product ads, but none from their merchant, Cabelas.

    And I can't help but wonder what users aren't seeing the ads? Does anyone not see them?
    I'm seeing them. Cabellas is at the top of the natural SERPs, but the "Shopping results for outdoor hunting gear" are only two spots lower. The merchants featured there (that I can see) appear to be big spenders - Amazon(2 results), Target, Buy.com, and Sportsman's Guide(?). Well, four out of the five spots seem to be for "big" spenders.
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  9. #9
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Google has redefined conflict of interest. Hell, they actually have redefined a lot of things for the worse lately.

    As I pointed out in the Revenews thread, they're going to have their work cut out for them with the CA affiliate tax rearing up again. Or, will merchants suddenly be willing to charge local sales tax if they can get CPA deals through Google?

    Time will tell, I guess.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    Pay only for results: Product Listing Ads are charged on a cost-per-action (CPA) basis, which means that you only pay when a user clicks on your ad and completes a purchase on your site. Because Product Listing Ads is charged on a CPA basis, it offers a risk-free way for you to reach a larger audience on Google.com.
    This feature used to be free which started with Froogle and then was converted to Google Shopping.

    In that case, it was still a free shopping comparison site and I guess they are trying to monitize it. I doubt that they are getting the money's worth for the ads on the right for Google Shopping. So I guess they are testing this concept.

    Honestly, I do not think it is that bad. Let's face the facts. Shopzilla, Shopping.com, Yahoo!Shopping, etc charge 50 cents per click and if you are converting at 4-6%, most cases, you are slightly ahead of break even.

    It is nothing new, YahooShopping taking feeds from affiliates, Microsoft and Bing. It is going to point it out but we should try to adapt to that.

  11. #11
    Half a Bubble Off Plumb RemodelingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeann
    The proverbial bull-in-a-china-shop comment coming yet again from RG.

    We know you love Google. You've scrawled it across walls. But for affiliates, they are a problem. Why can't you just admit it? This isn't about "hating" Google - it's about having to deal with a company that has no respect for its affiliates whatsoever.

    And really RG, I would really hate to see you suffer what many have suffered in their efforts to do business w/ these guys. You seem so entwined with them - which time after time has been shown as a dangerous place to be. I hope you have a plan B in place, just in case. It's not an impossible scenario ya know...
    I AM entwined w/ them leeann.

    Is there really anything wrong w/ that?

    I'm either a goog butt kissing monkey, or a site owner trying monetize his efforts to the best of his abilities.

    You got screwed.

    We all know that and hate that it happened.

    Goog is doing some questionable things that hurt all of us, but I have to go where the money is.

    Goog has screwed me in a big way too.

    Dropped my main organic site from a PR6 site ( SR ) to a 4.

    That update cost me a huge chunk of my organic traffic.

    I used to make 30% more on my Adsense in '07 than I do now.

    They just did something last week that killed over 150 of my backlinks.

    My main search term has gone from #1 to the second page of search results.

    I HAVE MY COMPLAINTS TOO.

    But, while goog is taking over the world, I have to do the best with what I have and try to make as much money as possible!

    Unfortunately, while goog is trying to monetize their empire at the cost of everyone else, my only back up ( Plan B ), that I have been working my butt off all summer to perfect , is PPC!

    And 90% of my PPC payments go to goog.

    I have pretty much the same PPC campaigns on several SE's.

    Goog makes me a lot of money.

    The rest are chump change.

    Trust and Zeus are absolutely right.

    But, we are small fish in goog's ocean.

    We all have to learn how to roll with the punches if we are going to be strong affiliates.

    IMHO!

    Jimmy McDonald - Your Local Hard Working RemodelingGuy ( & SprinklerGuy - & GarageGuy )
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  12. #12
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    In Google's case, it's a #mashup. AdWords, GAN, and Google Merchant Center all driving those positions.

    Two of those 3 eliminate affiliates from participating.
    Kevin Webster
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  13. #13
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Ewe
    ...but we should try to adapt to that.
    But how do we adapt to it? Go get a job ------------> out there in scary real land? I mean really, what can we do but lose to them?
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  14. #14
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    "It is nothing new, YahooShopping taking feeds from affiliates, Microsoft and Bing. It is going to point it out but we should try to adapt to that."

    In Yahoo Shopping. I've never saw them in the regular Yahoo SERPS, unless I've been missing it. Yeah, this is a straight up conflict of interest, where they have the power to Google Slap anybody (their competitors/us) without giving them a real reason, while having their own stuff there. And it's direct to merchant. I know some merchants forbid direct to merchant PPC but this is the same thing basically via a product ad.

  15. #15
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    What is unfair? Where is the conflict of interest? Google belongs to Google and they can do as they damned well please with their own damned website. Whether an advertiser wants to pay to advertise in that particular environment or not is the advertiser's own decision to make.
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  16. #16
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    It's right in your face, the conflict of interest -

    "A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in the other."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest

    After they bought Peformics and split out the departments, they sold the SEM portion because of a conflict of interest -

    "Today Google sold Performics, a division of DoubleClick, to Publicis Groupe. The main reason is that Performics does search engine marketing and optimization, a clear conflict of interest for Google. It doesn’t want to be attached to a product that is involved in these services."

    http://websideventures.com/2008/08/0...ls-performics/

    And I forget what you call it but when you get that size, stuff like this will get challenged in courts.

  17. #17
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    Google is stretching its arm these days. It is apparent they want to please the wall street and forego the mantra "do no evil". Now, it is all "do whatever you can to please the wall street"

    Good thing... possibly for another silicon valley venture to take on Google now with another version of "do no evil" mantra and unrestricted freedom and food for all employees!

  18. #18
    Half a Bubble Off Plumb RemodelingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    Google is stretching its arm these days. It is apparent they want to please the wall street and forego the mantra "do no evil". Now, it is all "do whatever you can to please the wall street"

    Good thing... possibly for another silicon valley venture to take on Google now with another version of "do no evil" mantra and unrestricted freedom and food for all employees!
    You may be right on the nose rtd ....

    They started out by pleasing Main street and now ......... ????

    It's all about money.......

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  19. #19
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RemodelingGuy
    But, while goog is taking over the world, I have to do the best with what I have and try to make as much money as possible!

    Unfortunately, while goog is trying to monetize their empire at the cost of everyone else, my only back up ( Plan B ), that I have been working my butt off all summer to perfect , is PPC!
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  20. #20
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    Sal, that's funny. Your expressions with smilies alone puzzles me!.

    But RMG has some valid points. Very few options left on internet now without Google!. Google is the MAJOR force and we cannot shy away from doing business with them - you like it or not. They're in the DRIVER's seat ... at least for now!

  21. #21
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    So I still say, where is the conflict of interest? They sell some ads, they run some affiliate/CPA ads. So what?

    And look at how much Google gives us all for free. Most of us wouldn't have two shiny quarters to rub together if it weren't for the benevolence of Google's (or any other search engine's) very existence.
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  22. #22
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    And Google will be ZILCH if not for the content on the WEB!

    What if EVERYBODY who owns any piece of content DECIDED to block Google!. That will be lot of fun for Google, right?

  23. #23
    Half a Bubble Off Plumb RemodelingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    What if EVERYBODY who owns any piece of content DECIDED to block Google!.
    We'd all earn enough cash to pay for a new pair of shoes once in a while -

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  24. #24
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    Sal, that's funny. Your expressions with smilies alone puzzles me!.
    Ok, you're forcing me to explain, so here it's...

    Don't they say that a picture is worth a thousand words?

    I thought that with just those 5 smilies, that I would save 50 characters to say the same thing: You're a lollipop sucker, Google kiss ass, monkey!
    But RMG has some valid points. Very few options left on internet now without Google!. Google is the MAJOR force and we cannot shy away from doing business with them - you like it or not. They're in the DRIVER's seat ... at least for now!
    I have no problem with RGM or Google, but just like you say: "They're in the DRIVER's seat ... at least for now", I know that sooner or later the is going to hit the for RMG on G, and for G on the market share, later...

    So I find it funny that RMG keep on bragging on his G good fortune (FOR NOW!), while some of his fellow abwers are on the crapper with G!

    Time will tell, but I can't wait for April when... ... (ask me by May)...

  25. #25
    Half a Bubble Off Plumb RemodelingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal
    Ok, you're forcing me to explain, so here it's...

    Don't they say that a picture is worth a thousand words?

    I thought that with just those 5 smilies, that I would save 50 characters to say the same thing: You're a lollipop sucker, Google kiss ass, monkey!

    I have no problem with RGM or Google, but just like you say: "They're in the DRIVER's seat ... at least for now", I know that sooner or later the is going to hit the for RMG on G, and for G on the market share, later...

    So I find it funny that RMG keep on bragging on his G good fortune (FOR NOW!), while some of his fellow abwers are on the crapper with G!

    Time will tell, but I can't wait for April when... ... (ask me by May)...

    BRAGGING?????

    Come on now!

    12 years ( almost 13 ) into this this biz and I have to go with the winners.

    Goog could kill my organic traffic in about 5 minutes.

    My Good Fortune?????

    I work my ass off, 12 - 24 hours a day to keep my sites up.

    If google becomes moot, I'll be doing something else.

    I just try to share my experience here, hoping it will help someone.

    I'm not stupid enough to put all of my eggs in one basket.

    Granted... If goog destroys what I have built, I would have to change stategery, but I'm making the most of what goog has to offer while it is available.

    I'd be a complete freaking idiot if I didn't...

    Much Love Bro!

    Jimmy McDonald - Your Local Hard Working RemodelingGuy ( & SprinklerGuy - & GarageGuy )
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