Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 31st, 2008
    Posts
    73
    "...together, we empower change..."
    The title is a direct quote from this forum's description.

    Having been musing on and off for the last half year or so about the, what I consider to be, deteriorating state of affiliate marketing - as a way for affiliates to make an honest dollar - I'm going to throw this out and see what shakes loose.

    It's pretty clear that not only are there some unscrupulous merchant advertisers out there but also some aff. networks themselves that needs be "smartened up" where it counts. As far as publishers go, well, the publishers and networks have their rools too!

    So, what I'm thinking is that a Group or Block or various Groups or Blocks get formed that act in Solidarity or Unison when we know that we're getting, ermmmm, intentionally ripped off. Again!

    What appears to be happening in the Aff. Marketing world in general is that very few affiliates are astute, a few more notice weird things happening with "the numbers" and most, don't have a clue!

    So, how do we - as publishers - form blocks that can instantly take action against not only the "unscrupulous ones" but also those who act deliberately in dishonest manner?

    Surely 100 or 500 or so people taking action as a group - in cutting off bad advertisers or networks - would be somewhat more effective than, what appears to me to be, the current one or two who know what's happening and tire of the constant BS coming back from the dishonest ones who are obviously trying to stop the smoke before it becomes a blaze?

    I dunno, just an idea but... How would I be instrumental in starting that on the Publisher level? Could this be the germ of an idea picked up by ABestWeb? Has it been tried before? Do we need new websites (not a problem) for the particular discussions that would develop?

    And, for my next act, might I suggest that y'all just max out your Credit Cards and then stop paying those Banks & CC companies - the "take your pants down & bend over" interest rate - that have just succeeded in deliberately crippling hard working families and innocent children - intentionally & internationally. They're worse than what the destructive and thieving malware people do. Way worse!

    Any ideas or comments - about this "Publisher solidarity" theme - would be most welcome. (I'll deal with the Credit Card companies later)! Thanks.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    Max out our credit cards and not pay? No thanks. Say what you will about predatory practices by the CC companies, but if you spend what you can afford and pay your balance every month, the interest rate doesn't matter one bit. Don't say it can't be done - I do it.

    Maxing out your credit cards and not paying will only have one effect: your credit score will be shot to hell and you'll never be able to do things like buy a house or car.

    As for affecting change in the affiliate marketing industry, the PMA and Affiliate Advocacy are working hard to do just that. Join one or both.
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  3. #3
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Mansfield, TX
    Posts
    16,232
    I think you'll be hard pressed to get affiliates to pull their support of any network or merchant where they make a significant amount of income. And if the affiliates pulling their support aren't big earners, the networks or merchants won't notice or care.

    I think education is one of the keys to empowering change. ABW always has been and will continue to be a major contributor in that area.

    The industry associations may one day play a part in getting bad practices cleaned up (and it's not just merchants and networks -- there are bad affiliates, too), but since both organizations have been founded their primary focus (and rightly so) has been on the state affiliate sales tax initiatives.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  4. #4
    Classic Rocker Mack's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 27th, 2007
    Location
    Lower Left Coast
    Posts
    1,167
    Publisher Solidarity - If this is what you want to do (and I think it was already to a small degree) then I'd suggest you focus on the positive and not the negative. If you had an organized association of 20,000 affiliates all working together, then your voice could be heard. You would need to use that voice in positive constructive ways to work with the networks and merchants and convince them that honest marketing with honest people is the smart choice for everyone. Add to that, you have to show them what honest marketing is.

    Just one example of many. You can't tell a network/merchant parasites are bad. You need to show them with sites like Kellie's, affiliatefairplay.com, and have the backing of a large group of honest affiliates all saying the same thing. Explain to them that although it might appear a parasite is bringing you sales, you have to show them the numbers are skewed and in the long run their program ROI is hosed by parasites.

    I don't think boycotts are the answer. If you get 100 people to dump a merchant the end result is the other 100 who didn't leave will do better.

  5. Thanks From:

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 31st, 2008
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel M. Clark
    Max out our credit cards and not pay? No thanks. Say what you will about predatory practices by the CC companies, but if you spend what you can afford and pay your balance every month, the interest rate doesn't matter one bit. Don't say it can't be done - I do it.

    Maxing out your credit cards and not paying will only have one effect: your credit score will be shot to hell and you'll never be able to do things like buy a house or car.

    As for affecting change in the affiliate marketing industry, the PMA and Affiliate Advocacy are working hard to do just that. Join one or both.
    thanks for the affecting change links. appreciated Daniel.

    As to t'other - we paid, I paid, for the hostage held by the banks and cc companies and we, I, never got the hostage back. i.e. they still have our do-re-mi. I know plenty of folks who can't get a house re-fi now (with scores above 750, 760, 800, 820, etc..) for no reason other than their credit limits were raised without asking and they don't work in a slightly more than minimum wage 8 hour a day playcheck job. i.e. self-empoyed - stated income. Good credit score or "shot to hell" don't matter a jot right now. And, like I say they're worse than malware/spyware writers for what they've done internationally to good families. Sorry to rant... thanks for the links.

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    May 31st, 2008
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by Mack
    .... I'd suggest you focus on the positive and not the negative. If you had an organized association of 20,000 affiliates all working together, then your voice could be heard. You would need to use that voice in positive constructive ways to work with the networks and merchants and convince them that honest marketing with honest people is the smart choice for everyone. Add to that, you have to show them what honest marketing is.

    Just one example of many. You can't tell a network/merchant parasites are bad. You need to show them with sites like Kellie's, affiliatefairplay.com, and have the backing of a large group of honest affiliates all saying the same thing. Explain to them that although it might appear a parasite is bringing you sales, you have to show them the numbers are skewed and in the long run their program ROI is hosed by parasites.
    20,000 huh. Wow. How low I'd set my sights. Thanks for the Kellie's and afffairplay head's up. I guess I'm pretty frustrated right now - not 'cos sales are down but, because I know they should be better. In addition one of my international publishers is pulling the same "delayed tactic paying" trick in 3 countries with the usual 60 day late apologies letter and hinting that it's the network's fault! right. Never seen that before.

    It just seems that Aff marketing is becoming a more dubious profession when it was difficult enough already. 'Spose I shouldn't moan as less affiliates mean more opportunities for the survivors but still... it's just "not right" what's going on out there.

    Thanks for the staying positive tip. A lifetime lesson for me I'm afraid

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 31st, 2008
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    I think you'll be hard pressed to get affiliates to pull their support of any network or merchant where they make a significant amount of income. And if the affiliates pulling their support aren't big earners, the networks or merchants won't notice or care.

    I think education is one of the keys to empowering change. ABW always has been and will continue to be a major contributor in that area.
    Thank the spirit for ABW indeed. I'd have long disappeared without them and no-one would have to listen to my frustrations any more

    Maybe I should Google up some top 10 pages on Aff marketing linking to ABW. That just might be the quickest way. Thanks for the sagacity and wisdom about education and ABW. I agree....

  9. #8
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 5th, 2005
    Location
    Park City Utah
    Posts
    16,646
    Aspasa, the best thing you can do is continue to take a stand as an affiliate against what you see as underhanded tactics in affiliate marketing. For the most part long term ABW affiliates are either apathetic or focused on their businesses. We have a forum about unethical merchants but few post: Unethical Merchants

    There is a private forum with 500+ AM/OPM's were we discuss fraudulent, trademark poachers and underhanded affiliates yet only about a dozen post there.

    Bottom line is few can handle the liability of outing wrong doers. Look back over the last two years at Parasiteware You will see those who have stuck their necks out.

    One thing I can say about the resources that were mentioned in this thread. They either have financial self interests which has nothing to do with helping affiliates or they have censured themselves with non-disclosures. Read their sites and tell me otherwise.

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    May 31st, 2008
    Posts
    73
    Thanks Chuck...

    Lots of reading for me to catch up on in the Parasiteware forum for sure.

    I see what you mean in your last paragraph... Also, any websites that look that "perfect" are up to something... IMHO!

    I'm busy writing some "Top 10" Aff. Marketing sites - with links to ABW - for Google to send more folks this way. Sheesh, I thought I was going to have to re-invent the wheel there!

  11. #10
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    Heaven forbid an organization make money to pay the people who run it. Let's form an organization with nothing but volunteers that pay their own expenses out of pocket and see how far that gets.
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  12. #11
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 5th, 2005
    Location
    Park City Utah
    Posts
    16,646
    Heaven forbid an organization who's core function is to make more money for the members and could care less for the lowly affiliate. Show me an entity that is focused on affiliates outside of ABW?

  13. #12
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    That does not refute my point. If you think the PMA and Affiliate Advocacy are all about the money and don't care about the lowly affiliates, then there's two choices - encourage affiliates to join en masse and influence from within or try to start your own organization that runs strictly on volunteers (yeah, right).

    Implying, or flat out saying, that because these organizations make money that they're not worthy of anything but scorn is disingenuous at best and outright malicious at worst.

    I remember well the derision that some people here treated the formation of the PMA with, and I remember well the underlying reasons for it. They formed anyway, as did Affiliate Voice, now Affiliate Advocacy. So the question is, will the same old prejudices affect how these organizations are treated, or will people work with them to make them better for affiliates?
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  14. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    May 31st, 2008
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel M. Clark
    Heaven forbid an organization make money to pay the people who run it. Let's form an organization with nothing but volunteers that pay their own expenses out of pocket and see how far that gets.
    Doctors without borders get pretty far. Mother Theresa seemed ok too. Gandhi. Greenpeace, Sierra club, ermmmm lemme think of a hundred thousand others who get by on the good will and donations of kind hearted people with a sense of moral righteousness. Oh yeah, Obama's volunteers did a good job too!

    sheesh!

  15. #14
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    That's not the same thing. All those organizations still take in money. The organizers don't pay out of pocket. The insinuation that the two organizations I brought up aren't about the average affiliate because they make money is what's being discussed right now.

    Let's see Greenpeace operate without taking in any money.

    It's also bogus to suggest that for-profit entities can't affect positive change.
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  16. #15
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 7th, 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,082
    To sum up: moral righteousness doesn't pay the bills.

    I'm done here, clearly there is no point to this discussion if these are going to be the responses. You want to affect change, fine. Just understand what it is you're trying to change and the reality of how it can be done.
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  17. #16
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Mansfield, TX
    Posts
    16,232
    Moderator Note: I'm going to close this thread until I have a chance to split out the posts about the altruism of the PMA and Affiliate Advocacy. I think that's a legitimate topic to discuss (civily), but it has brought this thread way off topic.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  18. Newsletter Signup

Closed Thread

Similar Threads

  1. How Do We Want to Change California's "Amazon Tax" Bill?
    By markwelch in forum California Affiliate Tax
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 25th, 2009, 06:56 PM
  2. My domain "taken" with slight change after 2 years
    By Rhia7 in forum Domains & Hosting
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: August 2nd, 2007, 09:41 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: February 5th, 2007, 03:18 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 29th, 2005, 01:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •