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  1. #1
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    Are there any decent free tools still out there that show what key phrases are going for through the various PPC companies?

    Also, I'm restarting with FindWhat and would like to expand my PPC to other companies. I've got good placement with Google on the phrases I want to target, so I've been holding off of Adwords. I'd love to hear feedback on this.

    Finally, comments about other PPCs, good or bad, would be appreciated. Are Overture and Kanoodle still iffy? I've seen negative posts about both in the past and am wondering if the perception still holds - especially since both are asking for $50 just to try them. Plus Overture has a minimum $20 monthly spend, which could be steep for niche phrases (not enough clicks to hit it).

  2. #2
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    "First Tier PPC"
    Google AdWords - www.google.com/ads
    Overture - www.overture.com
    "Second Tier PPC"
    7 Search - www.7search.com
    Ah-Ha - www.ah-ha.com
    Brainfox - www.brainfox.com
    Business.com - www.business.com
    Epilot - www.epilot.com
    FindWhat - www.findwhat.com
    Go Click - www.goclick.com
    Kanoodle - www.kanoodle.com
    LookSmart Looklistings - http://listings.looksmart.com
    Mamma Classifieds -
    Search123 - www.search123.com
    SearchFeed - www.searchfeed.com
    Sprinks - www.sprinks.com

    I'd put $25-50 in all the 2-tier PPC CE's and make sure you can track to sales conversion.

  3. #3
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    FYI -- the missing link above to Mamma Classifieds is:

    http://www.mammamediasolutions.com/a...ppc/index.html

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador HumbleFish's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    nakedzombie,

    Why would You choose the Second Tier PPCs over the First Tier PPCs?

    Thanks for the info, and Love You,
    HumbleFish

  5. #5
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    Well... in my view there are four reasons:

    1. You are already successfully advertising on the top tier engines and are looking for more exposure. Once you have a strong keyword list and a strategy that is making money for you, it makes sense to extend this to as many engines as possible.

    2. Second tier engines will drive traffic to sites that are not necessarily accessible via the first tier engines.

    3. As we all know, second tier advertising is a lot less expensive. The cost per click is lower for words that will be priced out-of-budget on the first tier engines.

    4. Have you ever tried getting even the time of day from an Overture rep? Unless you are spending the big money, no one at the big search engines will talk to you. Second tier engines will give small businesses better customer service, not to mention help with their ad creative and keyword lists.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador HumbleFish's Avatar
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    Thanks MammaMedia,

    That makes alot of sense.

    Love You,
    HumbleFish

  7. #7
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    I've tried the 2nd tier PPC and i think they're pretty much crap. Some are better than others but I'll take a targetted 5 cent Google Adwords click over those other 2nd tier PPC any day. From reading around GoClick and Findwhat seem to be the better of the 2nd tier, little more reach, more traffic than the others and some people like them. Out of all the 2nd tier i've tried, i would say i like GoClick more than the others. But i still like Google Adwords the best

  8. #8
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    May I jump in belatedly?

    Of the second tier 7Search is hands down the best followed closely by FindWhat. Both their performance and report tools are very good.

    Which brings me to the "network" topic.

    Both of these search engines sell their traffic to a large network. In My Experience... ahem!... if your keywords are sold to the network they will drain your resources faster then all heck. So try to bid so as to be number 4 or a little lower. Your conversion ratios will be higher even though you get fewer raw clicks.

    Beware of Looksmart and Kanoodle.

    Just my opinions. Hard experience speaking.

    Wesley

  9. #9
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    If you can't spend $20/month advertising in Overture you might be too selective in your keyword research. Take the $20 and test some new keywords.

  10. #10
    Affiliate Miester my2cents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MammaMedia
    4. Have you ever tried getting even the time of day from an Overture rep? Unless you are spending the big money, no one at the big search engines will talk to you. Second tier engines will give small businesses better customer service, not to mention help with their ad creative and keyword lists.
    This is not the case... you have to be persistant... and you can talk to a live person...

    Let's face it... a good size part of overture and google income comes from small advetisers... who ask a lot of piddley questions because they are too lazy to read the help or FAQ parts of the SEs websites...

    So it is understandable, the SEs discourage live voice contact... However, it is possible..

    When first used Adwords I had major problems with several campaigns... my campaigns were being disabled after 100 impressions... I sent several emails.. recieved the usual template response...so I did some diggin... afterall these are public companies we are talking about... their contact info is public if you know where to look...

    I called, and I did get through and I did get the help I needed the first time!

    Action like a business person, and you will be treated like a business person...!!!

    One more thing.. If you cant afford to lose $50 or $100 you should not be considering PPC!

    you will waste serveral hundred dollars learning what works for you and what doesn't...

    I've wasted 1000's... but I do this full time! and am willing to take the risk as I have other income...

    Joe
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    that's my2cents, 'cuz I'm a legend in my own mind....

  11. #11
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    I agree with Joe regarding Overture:
    I was able to talk to a live person and received prompt help.

    His is also the voice of experience when he says be willing to lose some money as you learn. All businesses do this and yours is no difference. Trial and error is how you find what works.

    Through experience I've learned that the networks are not as good as the search engine clicks on the second tier engines. Overture is a different story entirely.

    But Joe is right: in time when your business is full time there will be a regular budget for advertising using PPC.

    Wesley

  12. #12
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    I care more about ROI more than customer service. The second tier engines may have great customer service, but do not deliver the results that I am looking for.

  13. #13
    Full Member seven-link's Avatar
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    Anyone able to track the conversions per keyword term given that the conversion takes place on the merchant site? If so, how are you doing it?

    Thanks!
    Seven

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Cool
    Quote Originally Posted by MammaMedia
    Well... in my view there are four reasons:

    1. You are already successfully advertising on the top tier engines and are looking for more exposure. Once you have a strong keyword list and a strategy that is making money for you, it makes sense to extend this to as many engines as possible.

    2. Second tier engines will drive traffic to sites that are not necessarily accessible via the first tier engines.

    3. As we all know, second tier advertising is a lot less expensive. The cost per click is lower for words that will be priced out-of-budget on the first tier engines.

    4. Have you ever tried getting even the time of day from an Overture rep? Unless you are spending the big money, no one at the big search engines will talk to you. Second tier engines will give small businesses better customer service, not to mention help with their ad creative and keyword lists.
    Sound advice for those so hell bent on earning commissions without even having a web site...just leverage keywords via PPCSEs. The theory falls apart for those who'd refuse, rather then seekout, having their keyword clicks riding on some BHO theftware train. Only the desperate and deliberate tricksters hawk and monitize the 2nd tier PPCSE's. Buy quality traffic and be content.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  15. #15
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    danay - go back to the name thread - you can still get a name.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador danay's Avatar
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    I use 1st tier more for direct-response and 2nd-tier for branding.

    the 1st tier ones definitely perform better. Even though you pay more per click, you still get better ROI.

    there are still a few niches though, that have not been saturated in the 2nd tier, which would be a good opportunity for a newbie ppc marketer.

  17. #17
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    See current bids for keywords
    To see how much keywords are going for in Yahoo, go to http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/rc/srch/ and use the "view bids tool". To use the Google estimator to do the same thing you have to go to ads.google.com and pretend to open an AdWords account, or if you actually have one you can use the tool from inside the account.

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