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  1. #1
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    Flashy Blinky Lights :(
    Flashy Blinky Lights

    9 out of my last 31 sales ( three sales in Dec) have been voided due to "VOIDED Non qualified lead Sale. " Anyone have any clue what this means and are you seeing a similar trend for Flashy Blinky Lights?

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    What network are they on or are they indy?

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    SAS. For some reason, I thought Jon Nunez was OPM for this, but after a quick check, I don't see it listed as such.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  4. #4
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    Yes, SAS... I don't have many reversals on SAS but it seems lately, I am being reversed at 100%... and some big comissions, too.

  5. #5
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meadowmufn
    SAS. For some reason, I thought Jon Nunez was OPM for this, but after a quick check, I don't see it listed as such.
    he was when I visited him at ASE08 in Boston.

  6. #6
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Wow that's some nasty numbers, Anne. I haven't seen any reversals from them but I didn't have many (if any) sales from them in the past few months like you have.

    Last I knew, Suluta is their OPM. Not sure what's up. WOuld be nice to hear from Suluta.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  7. #7
    OPM Queen Kristin Kinsey's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I IM'd Mike about this last night, and he said they are no longer managing the program. As of when, I do not know.
    KK

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    I found an email (actuall two).

    I don't know if it's OK to post here but mods can delete/move.

    Chris {a t } Flashingblinkylights { d ot} com

    Chris {d ot} fbl { do t} bz

  9. #9
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    thank you!

  10. #10
    Online Marketing Consultant
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    I got one reversed yesterday as well.
    Adam Riemer Marketing, LLC. Online Marketing Blog and Affiliate Management Company
    Do you need help with your Marketing or Sales funneling, write me at adamr (at) adamriemer (dot) me

  11. #11
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    I have found out why sales were reversed and posted a thread to let everyone know here:

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=128404

  12. #12
    Outsourced Program Manager
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    Hey Everybody,

    Unfortunately, we stopped managing this client over a year ago. I've offered my help to SAS to resolve the issue.

    -Mike

  13. #13
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike.. I have no doubt SAS will straighten it out... we miss you managing, lol

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    I just received the update terms in the email today. The lines in red seem to be what has changed in the new terms. Anne, hope you got paid for what they owe you. Keep us posted. I don't give away my traffic so I will be terminating this merchant.









    OLD TERMS

    PAYMENT. FlashingBlinkyLights.com, Inc. agrees to pay Affiliate a commission rate of 10% of the total sale (excluding tax and Shipping / Handling) for each sale made by a visitor originating from the your Participating Website using your unique Affiliate Link. You will be issued a unique URL, which allows FlashingBlinkyLights.com, Inc. to identify visitors from your site as originating from FlashingBlinkyLights.com. These visitors are tracked with this unique URL and sales are recorded with your Affiliate ID. To receive commissions, your customers must arrive at FlashingBlinkyLights.com through your Affiliate Link. Payment will be paid by check every month an Affiliate has accrued more than $10.00 in commissions. Checks will be sent by US Mail by the 10th of each month. Although our Affiliate Program is not limited to the U.S. all payments will be made in U.S. dollars. FlashingBlinkyLights.com, Inc. reserves the right to modify the payment schedule as long as notice is posted to the Web site or sent by email. If a qualifying sale is canceled or refunded, the related commission will be deducted from the next monthly payment






    NEW TERMS 1/23/10

    PAYMENT. FlashingBlinkyLights.com, Inc. agrees to pay Affiliate a commission rate of 10% of the total sale (excluding tax and Shipping / Handling) for each sale made by a new cusotmer originating from the your Participating Website using your unique Affiliate Link. Existing customers that accidently pick up your code while surfing the net will be considered non-qualified leads and could be subject to reversal. You will be issued a unique URL, which allows FlashingBlinkyLights.com, Inc. to identify visitors from your site as originating from FlashingBlinkyLights.com. These visitors are tracked with this unique URL and sales are recorded with your Affiliate ID. To receive commissions, your customers must arrive at FlashingBlinkyLights.com through your Affiliate Link. Payment will be paid by check every month an Affiliate has accrued more than $10.00 in commissions. Checks will be sent by US Mail by the 10th of each month. Although our Affiliate Program is not limited to the U.S. all payments will be made in U.S. dollars. FlashingBlinkyLights.com, Inc. reserves the right to modify the payment schedule as long as notice is posted to the Web site or sent by email. If a qualifying sale is canceled or refunded, the related commission will be deducted from the next monthly payment.

  15. #15
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    FlashingBlinkyLights.com, Inc...Existing customers that accidently pick up your code while surfing the net will be considered non-qualified leads and could be subject to reversal.
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...9&postcount=31

    Greed and stupidity must be contagious!

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  16. #16
    Half a Bubble Off Plumb RemodelingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rematt
    Greed and stupidity must be contagious!

    -rematt
    Crap!!!!

    I guess that I'm in BIG TROUBLE!!!

    Jimmy McDonald - Your Local Hard Working RemodelingGuy ( & SprinklerGuy - & GarageGuy )
    StartRemodeling.com .... MySprinklerGuy.com .... MyGarageGuy.com ....
    We're Bettering YOUR Life by Improving Where YOU Live It ...
    Do What You LOVE & LOVE What You Do! ....

  17. #17
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    The wording (especially the use of the word "accidentally") makes it sound as if it's something other than a "new-customers-only" affiliate program. But how would FBL know whether the customer's visit to an affiliate site was "accidental?" It seems much more likely that this really is just a "new-customers-only" affiliate program.

    I think I understand the "issue" that FBL is seeking to address -- parasites and other unethical people whose main "affiliate" activity is to use various tricks to "stuff cookies" so that they can poach credit for a transaction which they never influenced in any way. FBL might also believe that the affiliate-payment triggered by the first transaction reflects, to some degree, the future value of the customer's subsequent orders, and therefore that affiliates should not be paid again for the same customer.

    Unfortunately, the new policy is still vague and confusing. Is it intended to apply only to "accidental" clicks and cookies? Or is it really intended to provide that publishers will only be paid for advertising that brings a "new customer" or "first order"?

    Questions:

    (1) Suppose Ted clicks on an advertisement on my web site and places a $20 order with FBL today. After Ted receives his merchandise next week, he re-visits my web site and clicks on the same ad again and then places a $200 order, will FBL pay me for that second transaction? (If he doesn't re-visit my site, but returns directly to the FBL site but with "my" affiliate cookie still active, should/would the result be different?)

    (2) Suppose Alice, who previously bought from FBL a year ago, subsequently visits my web site for the first time, and Alice then clicks the FBL advertisement and places an order with FBL. Is that always going to be presumed to be an "accidental" click because the customer placed an order before? Does it matter when the original order was placed (a week ago, a year ago)? Does it matter if the customer buys a different type of product (for example, the first purchase was of a product that isn't related to the theme of my web site, but the second product is one that I featured because it's closely related to the theme of my web site)?

    I think the answer (if FBL ever responds) is going to be "no," that ANY second order from any "pre-existing customer" will be excluded from affiliate payments. As others mention, this suggests that FBL doesn't recognize either the "full value" of the original affiliate referral, nor the benefit of subsequent advertising exposures in "recapturing" customers who've never returned to the FBL site after their original purchase.

    Since FBL doesn't provide any way for web publishers to determine which of our visitors are eligible, the logical response (as others mention) is simply to drop their advertising from our sites, unless we're willing to accept this new, reduced payment structure.

    (Yes, greed and stupidity are contagious -- but unfortunately they also seem to arise even without exposure to another "infected" source.)
    Last edited by markwelch; January 18th, 2010 at 08:53 PM.

  18. #18
    Believe knight01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rematt
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...9&postcount=31

    Greed and stupidity must be contagious!

    -rematt
    +1
    Someday starts today
    Military Discounts

  19. #19
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Dang! We'll be back from Affiliate Summit on Thursday. Don't have time to worry confusing situations so will have links replaced on affiliate sites by the weekend. No more unanswered questions! No further ambiguity.

    Problem Solved!
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Took only 2 seconds to terminate.

    And 1 of those seconds was to Log In to Popshops.



    Gotta luvvv that!

  21. #21
    Classic Rocker Mack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwelch
    Since FBL doesn't provide any way for web publishers to determine which of our visitors are eligible, the logical response (as others mention) is simply to drop their advertising from our sites, unless we're willing to accept this new, reduced payment structure.
    +1
    I agree with everything you said Mark, this part really sums it up. It would be nice if FBL would come in here to discuss it with us. If they are having a problem with the program, maybe we could work with them to find a solution. From what I've read, I don't have high hopes.

  22. #22
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    Just an update.. I haven't seen the reversals UN reversed... Is there an update to this? Thanks

  23. #23
    Affiliate Manager
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    FlashingBlinkyLights.com affiliate program.
    Hello Affiliates and previous Affiliates,

    I am just seeing this thread for the first time so let me try to address all the important things everyone is talking about. Sales from existing customer's means customers that existed before the campaign started. So if an affiliate sends a new customer and that customer comes back, they will get credit for the sale. One of the reasons we have to do this is because old distributors that use our sites daily, sometimes go to affiliates site and then place their orders. Obviously these customers are not relevant sales and since these distributors already get extremely low prices because of their heavy sales volume, we cannot pay an additional 10% on top of that. We should have communicated this to everyone better when voiding sales in the past.

    I explained this in previous threads and some people did not believe me. I gave an example of a distributor that orders heavily on my site daily and regularly gets caught with an affiliates code. You can contact Magic Matt on the web and ask him about this and he will tell you how often I and others from the office have to ask him to clear out his cookies. He has gotten better recently, but still occasionally picks them up.

    The reason for the ton of recent voids and changes to the accounts agreement are because of TMB and fraud. Unfortunately their are a bunch of shady affiliates out there and if the merchant is not paying close attention, which I admit we were not doing, those affiliates will take advantage of your program. I did incorrectly void some sales and have contacted those affiliates and posted manual transactions. This also hurts our reversal rates, but things should be back on track soon. All sales look good right now for almost a week.

    Any questions and comments, please send them and I will address them.

    Thanks,

    Chris Camarella

  24. #24
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter what you write here Chris. The bottom line is the terms NEVER stated that you did not pay on sales other than first sales. If you had that in the terms, this thread would have never existed, flat out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Camarella View Post
    Hello Affiliates and previous Affiliates,

    I am just seeing this thread for the first time so let me try to address all the important things everyone is talking about. Sales from existing customer's means customers that existed before the campaign started. So if an affiliate sends a new customer and that customer comes back, they will get credit for the sale. One of the reasons we have to do this is because old distributors that use our sites daily, sometimes go to affiliates site and then place their orders. Obviously these customers are not relevant sales and since these distributors already get extremely low prices because of their heavy sales volume, we cannot pay an additional 10% on top of that. We should have communicated this to everyone better when voiding sales in the past.

    I explained this in previous threads and some people did not believe me. I gave an example of a distributor that orders heavily on my site daily and regularly gets caught with an affiliates code. You can contact Magic Matt on the web and ask him about this and he will tell you how often I and others from the office have to ask him to clear out his cookies. He has gotten better recently, but still occasionally picks them up.

    The reason for the ton of recent voids and changes to the accounts agreement are because of TMB and fraud. Unfortunately their are a bunch of shady affiliates out there and if the merchant is not paying close attention, which I admit we were not doing, those affiliates will take advantage of your program. I did incorrectly void some sales and have contacted those affiliates and posted manual transactions. This also hurts our reversal rates, but things should be back on track soon. All sales look good right now for almost a week.

    Any questions and comments, please send them and I will address them.

    Thanks,

    Chris Camarella

  25. #25
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    And Ladadih, though this response is late, no, they never paid me what they owed me.

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