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  1. #1
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Merchants Who Don't Pay When A Customer Has Made A Prior Purchase
    The practice of a merchant who will not pay a legitimately earned commission - one produced by virtue of a visitor to an affiliate site clicking an affiliate link and then making a purchase on the merchant's site - for the reason that that particular visitor has at some time in the past made a prior purchase from that merchant, has has been discussed in these two recent threads:

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=128299

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=128071

    Some merchants have this in their TOS, while other merchants apparently do not credit commissions and/or cancel commissions, when they determine that a customer has made a prior purchase at their site, with no prior knowledge of this practice having been imparted to their affiliates.

    It is very wrong for a merchant to have this in their TOS, and even worse for them to do it if it is NOT in their TOS. The customer still arrived through an affiliate link and the affiliate should be fully compensated. This amounts to a license to steal.

    Hopefully this thread can be a list of merchants who engage in this practice, so affiliates can be aware of this, and exercise an informed choice of whether or not to promote such merchants.

    The two merchants who are the subject of the earlier threads are:

    Flashy Blinky Lights
    Pierre Silber
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  2. #2
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Added Note
    Hopefully, some merchants who engage in this practice, especially those who do not say so in their TOS, will voluntarily list their sites here.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Good idea for such a thread!

    Hopefully we can pm the mods to update the OP post so the list of merchants are all in one place.

    I for one will not be tolerating any merchants who only pay for first time sales because I know there are merchants out there who value our relationships and have paid for each and every sale. There are merchants who even don't reverse a sale even if there is a reversal on their end. I can vouch that those programs are doing well because affiliates are promoting those merchants to death. Those merchants are thriving!

    So merchants, think twice about this!

  4. #4
    Believe knight01's Avatar
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    I've looked at it as I'm a salesperson. If this visitor to my site was THEIR customer THEY should be marketing to them. If I have to remind them, or re-sell them on the merchant, I'm entitled to be compensated.

    If a visitor is looking to buy a product and they didn't go directly to the merchant, it sounds like they are looking for an alternative source, if I convince them to return to the merchant to make a purchase, I'm entitled to be compensated.

    If a visitor is comparing prices on my site and I show them the merchant has the lowest price, I've done my job and I'm entitled to be compensated.

    If a merchant has a coupon code box in their checkout and a visitor goes out looking for a discount and ends up on my site to find the code, I've done my job of closing the deal. The merchant sent them away, I brought them back... I'm entitled to be compensated.

    Anyway you look at it, if the visitor is on my site and I convince them to complete a purchase on a merchant site I should be compensated.

    You can pay me for new customers or you can pay me for customer retention, but if a merchant can't get the consumer to their site and close the deal, and I can, I deserve to be paid.
    Someday starts today
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  5. #5
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    If we're going to leave this in the Merchant Best Practices Forum, we need to redo this thread in a postive, educational, "what merchants should do" perspective.

    If we're going to leave this as a warning list of merchants who have clueless practices like this, we need to move it to one of the affiliate-focused forums.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  6. #6
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    I started it where it thought it would fit, but feel free to move it to the appropriated place.

    I do think it should stay as a warning to affiliates thread.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  7. #7
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    My two cents...

    First it is absolutely wrong for any merchant to do this.

    Second, my advice to merchants: factor it into your payouts. If you, as the merchant, are doing to do back-end marketing to the customer and end up paying commissions to affiliates, factor that in to the payout.

    Example:

    Item 1 is bought first and costs $100 and let's say that across the board you set the to payout 20%. Payout should be $20.

    You do back-end marketing that then sells another item that costs $50. Payout for this should be $10.

    If you have a certain profit in mind, you need to figure out what the payout should be overall.

    This will take some data to figure how much the average customer buys on the back-end. If they average $50 and you can afford to payout only $25 per $150, then you will need to set the payout at approximately 17.5%.

    This will pay $17.50 on the first and $8.75 on the second for a total of $26.25. This will result in approximately a cost of $25 per two sales since some people will clear cookies etc.

    Of course if you are just starting a program go with a 16% payout or something lower than you CAN pay so you can always raise it. (Cardinal Rule 1 of affiliate programs: NEVER lower a payout!)

    OK that was kind of a convoluted post but I hope it makes sense.
    Matt McWilliams
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  8. #8
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Recently Frederick's of Hollywood denied me a commission on my own purchase.
    During a recent "Superstar Sale" I placed one of their new "Superstar Sale" banners on one of my affiliate pages and made a purchase for myself in the amount of $137.95.
    When I received the order and was not credited for an affiliate sale I filled out a "Transaction Inquiry" provided by the Linkshare network. This was my comment:
    I received the shipment. I ordered from an affiliate banner on [my affiliate] web page but was not credited as an affiliate for the order.
    The resolution was: "Denied - Non-Commissionable."
    I then "escalated" my comments and asked why was the purchase "Non-Commissionable?" I never received an answer. I have ordered from Frederick's of Hollywood in the past as an affiliate and have received a commission, so I wonder why a commission was recently denied? The items purchased were "regular" items that they sell and very similar to items bought during a previous purchase when I was awarded a commission.
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  9. #9
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight01
    I've looked at it as I'm a salesperson. If this visitor to my site was THEIR customer THEY should be marketing to them. If I have to remind them, or re-sell them on the merchant, I'm entitled to be compensated.

    If a visitor is looking to buy a product and they didn't go directly to the merchant, it sounds like they are looking for an alternative source, if I convince them to return to the merchant to make a purchase, I'm entitled to be compensated.

    If a visitor is comparing prices on my site and I show them the merchant has the lowest price, I've done my job and I'm entitled to be compensated.

    If a merchant has a coupon code box in their checkout and a visitor goes out looking for a discount and ends up on my site to find the code, I've done my job of closing the deal. The merchant sent them away, I brought them back... I'm entitled to be compensated.

    Anyway you look at it, if the visitor is on my site and I convince them to complete a purchase on a merchant site I should be compensated.

    You can pay me for new customers or you can pay me for customer retention, but if a merchant can't get the consumer to their site and close the deal, and I can, I deserve to be paid.
    Perfect! The entire post deserved to be repeated.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  10. #10
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    Can we just bump this periodically so it doesn't get missed?



    I just reread what knight said and I guess I missed the clarity of it the first time (my fault)

    It reminded me of a customer service agent who is assigned to manage an account at say a company say like an insurance agency.

    If that customer service rep, through good service and sales skills, subsequently sells a client an additional insurance policy, he or she gets a commission on that. Makes sense right! DUH!

    Grrrr sometimes it's so painfully obvious and yet...oh well.
    Matt McWilliams
    Call Me At: (317) 825-8826 | Follow Me On Twitter: @MattMcWilliams2 | Connect With Me On LinkedIn

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