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  1. #1
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    Sale reversed because NO coupon was posted?
    I am so laughing right now... I had a sale reversed on a baby merchant ( who shall remain nameless) because they changed their policy that if you have a coupon site, you don't get paid on sales if the customer buys WITHOUT using a coupon... Mind you, they have NO coupons posted at SAS...

    WTF?

    hehe... I wrote and asked for an exclusive, but really... I am just baffled at affiliate marketing these days.

    It used to be so simple.

    Scratchin' my head....

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    So they offer no coupons
    But they accept coupon affiliates
    Yet they do not pay if the person buys without a coupon

    Wow.

  3. #3
    Grandma broke her coccyx! Uncle Rico's Avatar
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    In any other industry, that would be baffling. Unfortunately, this type of logic is getting to be business as usual in affiliate marketing.

  4. #4
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourButts View Post
    In any other industry, that would be baffling. Unfortunately, this type of logic is getting to be business as usual in affiliate marketing.
    In any other industry there are rules that everyone understands BEFORE playing. In affiliate marketing apparently merchants can make up the rules as they go along. WHERE ARE THE NETWORKS? There have to be some standards.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  5. #5
    15 years and counting
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    you don't get paid on sales if the customer buys WITHOUT using a coupon... Mind you, they have NO coupons posted at SAS...
    Never heard this one before. There's a first for everything. What's the logic behind that decision?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    Never heard this one before. There's a first for everything. What's the logic behind that decision?
    affiliate marketing and logic do not go together very often it seems

  7. #7
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    ( who shall remain nameless)

    pretty please

    I wanna read their terms.

  8. #8
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    Anne I really think we should know who the merchant is so we can pull them off our sites.
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  9. #9
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    After the Storkie.com thread I am afraid.. it is another baby merchant, at SAS. I will provide the name if anyone wants to write me directly.. here is the thread of mails so far. I cannot fathom how this could at all be kosher...

    from me
    "Can you please advise why my first sale with you was voided?"

    from merchant
    "Hi, we changed our policy so that we only pay commissions for coupon sites/searches where a valid coupon is being advertised on the click through site. We encourage use of coupons, and we also love to be featured on mom-related sites such as yours. However, we have many affiliates who list our company among a long list of other and capture click-throughs from people looking for coupons who pass through because the site does not actually provide a coupon for the customer.

    Thank you for your understanding."

    from me:
    "omg, you mean you are not paying me on the sale because I don't have a
    coupon listed???????
    I sent the sale without a coupon!
    I checked and you have no coupons listed at SAS unless I missed
    something.. How can I post a coupon when I don't have one?
    Could you please send one asap so I can post it? Honestly, in 12 years
    marketing online, I have never seen such a policy.. especially when
    there aren't coupons available (?)
    Thanks "

    from merchant
    "Hi, I definitely see your point about the full price sale. The issue is that with coupon sites like yours we do not get any benefit from the listing, as the customer would find the advertisement because they were already searching for a "XXX" , but wanted to see if they could find a deal on it first. We would receive a benefit from the advertisement if the customer would not have purchased our product but for the coupon, but that is not the case here.

    Nevertheless, I see your point and it is a tricky situation. I am going to discuss with our marketing director whether we should revise this policy. If we do revise the policy to your benefit, I will retroactively credit back your sale as we really value our shareasale partners and want to further these relationships.

    thank you for your feedback. "


    from me
    "...I have checked my stats for the last month and I don't have one person who searched for your name that clicked through to my site... so the sale did not come
    from search ( I use urchin which is pretty accurate). Regardless, if
    you have that policy, there should be plenty of coupons listed at SAS...

    So here I am with your listing still up and no available coupons. I
    can either remove it or list a coupon but I don't have one. It seems
    odd you would have that policy and NOT offer a coupon?

    I am sort of laughing and confused at the same time. I hauled both of
    my babies around in slings for years so I love your product, but if I
    am going to have every sale reversed because you don't offer a coupon
    and I can't list one, just doesn't seem fair... Please advise,
    Thanks,"
    Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; April 21st, 2010 at 06:56 PM.

  10. #10
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    This policy may explain this:


    Reversal rates:
    7 Day 100.00 % 30 Day 40.00 %

    And here is their TOS
    Please note the following revised restrictions which apply to our Program.
    1. We do not allow bidding using our trademark or domain name. These include the following search terms: XXXXXX

    2. We do not pay commissions on coupon searches where no current coupon is being displayed on the affiliate site.

    3. We do not pay commissions on wholesale orders, pro deal orders, or other internal discounted orders using internal discount codes. We do, of course, pay commissions on sales using publicly advertised coupons, and we encourage their use.

    4. We do not pay commissions on sales where we are unable to view the clicked from banner page.


    Again, NO coupons are offered at SAS or anywhere that I could find... and I had NO coupon search from anywhere that brought a customer to thier page, according to Urchin....

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    2. We do not pay commissions on coupon searches where no current coupon is being displayed on the affiliate site.

    How do they know it was a coupon search? They have no idea how the person got to your website. That is impossible for them to know

  12. #12
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    I know.. lol. Perhaps there should be a TOS writing school for all merchants...

  13. #13
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Sounds like a poor excuse to me. Looks like they be having problems other than being illogical and lacking common sense (like no affiliate sale in over four days).

    As relatively new merchants, Jill and I always pay attention to threads like this. We don't want to ever make these kinds of mistakes. We want to develop a couple of truly "affiliate friendly" programs.
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

  14. #14
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Their reversal rates say it all. This is a merchant that wants the benefits of an affiliate program but doesn't want to pay for an affiliate program. Frankly, the merchants that I want to work with are those that look for ways for me to make more money, not those that look for ways to avoid paying commissions.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  15. #15
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    This merchant has not got a clue, perhaps they should be invited to come to ABW and learn how to run an affiliate program the right way.

  16. #16
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    Besides all of the above, this is one I have a major issue with:

    "We do not pay commissions on sales where we are unable to view the clicked from banner page."

    There was another merchant there who had something like that, where if they couldn't see the referring url (I guess that's the same as clicked from banner page?) they don't pay. And if you're been on SAS any amount of time, sometimes you'll see that in your stats. So sometimes when there is no referring url, that has nothing to do with anything I'm doing, that's either something on SAS's end or something with the shopper and their setup. And I think not paying violates the basic premise off affiliate marketing, that we get paid for delivering sales and I don't think merchants should be able to put stuff like that in the agreement.

  17. #17
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    What rematt said
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  18. #18
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    I think the merchant should be lsited for everyone to see who they may be dealing with.

    Unethical merchants need to be brought to the attention of affiliates.

    I'm confused. They say they "receive no beenefit" but isn't having a sale referred from another site a benefit.

    I would love to have the network rep respond to this and explain how they can allow a rogue merchant like this to continue to be allowed in their network.

    If a rep does NOT respond they are telling us they agree with merchants STEALING our commisssions.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    This policy may explain this:


    Reversal rates:
    7 Day 100.00 % 30 Day 40.00 %

    And here is their TOS
    Please note the following revised restrictions which apply to our Program.
    1. We do not allow bidding using our trademark or domain name. These include the following search terms: XXXXXX

    2. We do not pay commissions on coupon searches where no current coupon is being displayed on the affiliate site.

    3. We do not pay commissions on wholesale orders, pro deal orders, or other internal discounted orders using internal discount codes. We do, of course, pay commissions on sales using publicly advertised coupons, and we encourage their use.

    4. We do not pay commissions on sales where we are unable to view the clicked from banner page.


    Again, NO coupons are offered at SAS or anywhere that I could find... and I had NO coupon search from anywhere that brought a customer to thier page, according to Urchin....
    The TOS is a sham. Shouldn't be allowed by Shareasale.

  20. #20
    Grandma broke her coccyx! Uncle Rico's Avatar
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    5. We do not pay commissions on sales that occur on a day of the week that ends with "day".

  21. #21
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Guess they don't understand the SEO traffic from coupon affiliates or the loyalty or the listings.

    Dear USA Today we are not paying our advertising fees because we can not track that a consumer came from your newspaper. Although we understand that your paper is read by 10's of Millions of people daily we can not track a click through. Thank you for the nice article about our top selling product, customer service was buried with the calls.

  22. #22
    Affiliate Manager bcwaller's Avatar
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    I can see their idea, but they just didn't think it all through. It looks like they figured that if a customer comes to their site (first click from affiliate A or an ad or natural SERP) and fills their cart, then goes out and looks for a coupon code, that a secondary affiliate should not be rewarded for that last click.

    What they are forgetting is that there might not be the first click in this scenario. Perhaps they should re-think the offering of coupons which drives this type of activity?

    If nothing else, they should not use the word Coupon or Promo in their shopping cart. When consumers see these term, they leave and search for coupons.
    Brad Waller | VP, Business and Affiliate Development
    EPage.com

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
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    "We do not pay commissions on sales where we are unable to view the clicked from banner page."

    There was another merchant there who had something like that, where if they couldn't see the referring url (I guess that's the same as clicked from banner page?) they don't pay. And if you're been on SAS any amount of time, sometimes you'll see that in your stats. So sometimes when there is no referring url, that has nothing to do with anything I'm doing, that's either something on SAS's end or something with the shopper and their setup. And I think not paying violates the basic premise off affiliate marketing, that we get paid for delivering sales and I don't think merchants should be able to put stuff like that in the agreement.
    +1

    The network needs to get involved when a merchant tries to have something like this in their TOS. The merchant needs to understand that this happens from time to time and it is not necessarily because of anything the affiliate has done. I used to see that once in a while, now It is several of the clickthoughs on any day.

  24. #24
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourButts View Post
    5. We do not pay commissions on sales that occur on a day of the week that ends with "day".
    LOL.

    6. We will no longer pay commissions generated between the hours of 12:00 AM to 11:59 PM Monday Through Sunday, January 1st through December 31st from Janaury 1st 2010 until December 31st 300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

  25. #25
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    You were totally in the right w/ the Storkie.com thread. If this information is correct, you have a valid reason to complain this time too and so might many of us.
    Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; April 21st, 2010 at 06:56 PM.
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

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