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  1. #1
    15 years and counting
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    What's the need to reverse a $0 sale?
    I'm keeping links for one of the stupiest merchants, IllPumpYouUp just to see how low they can go.
    I had a transaction on 05/22 for the fabulous amount of $0 and a stunning $0 commission. I was expecting to keep this transaction.
    No way.
    Today, 05/26 I had a reversal. Reason: VOIDED Repeat order sale - None.
    So, how much am I going to make on this one?
    Is there a reason why a merchant would like to reverse a $0 sale? Is it to consolidate their stats?

    Most of my sales (or other affiliates sales) for IllPumpYouUp are reversed like usual. The merchant has a steady 100% reversal rate from their beginning at Shareasale in August 2009. Why are they still at SAS?

  2. #2
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Maybe they think a 100% Reversal rate is a good thing?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellie aka Ms. B View Post
    Maybe they think a 100% Reversal rate is a good thing?
    This is one of these merchants with an inside affiliate program + a network SAS. I believe they have a hard time to understand from where the sales are coming. An other reason to avoid merchants on several platforms.

  4. #4
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    I was saying that tongue in cheek.

    A 100% reversal rate is reason enough to avoid them.

    This is one of these merchants with an inside affiliate program + a network SAS. I believe they have a hard time to understand from where the sales are coming.
    But I think SAS would have done a tracking prior to them launching?? Unless they started the in-house after launching on SAS? I guess SAS could not have known they had an in-house so didn't have an in-house cookie set during testing.

    Still, even if tracking wasn't set up correctly, there's no way ALL the in-house affiliate track was the last click in.

    The only reasons I can think of that something would track a $0 sale in the first place is either a) they have something for free on the site or b) they have a product mispriced on their site.

  5. #5
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    I don't know what's going on with this merchant. Their in-house program was set before SAS. It's something pretty stange. I'm not sure I understand it all.
    http://www.illpumpyouup.com/affiliate-program.htm

    I started several threads about them. I issued a ticket with SAS (And got 2 commissions paid - the only ones) but they are still live and misleading affiliates. SAS must have a reason to keep them.

    http://www.abestweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126848
    http://www.abestweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130270


    This year I made a whooping $21.89 total commission for 26 transactions (24 reversed)
    This month I had 2 $0 transactions (including one reversed) plus 4 voided commissions $14.06 + $6.61 + $12.55 + $22.62

    I don't care for the money. I just like to know why they still have an affiliate program.

  6. #6
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    They state:
    "How It Works?
    On our web server we have installed a software package called 'Urchin Web Analytics' by Google. It’s a website monitoring application that tracks how every web user got to our site."

    Might Urchin be interfering with SAS tracking?

  7. #7
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    OMG...just when you think you've seen it all!!

    They are using Urchin as their tracking for the "in-house" program.

    "Clueless" is just not sufficient to describe this one.

    Sorry, but I can't pass up this chance to be cheeky again.

    Maybe you should join their in-house program and get the .20-.30 per click? You'd probably make more with the Urchin tracking.

    Ok, seriously, I've no idea why they are still on SAS either. But they sure do take the cake for not knowing a thing about affiliate marketing.

    I can see why you'd keep them just to see what may happen next.

  8. #8
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Might Urchin be interfering with SAS tracking?
    Urchin itself doesn't interfere with tracking. But doesn't mean they aren't looking at something in Urchin reports to justify the reversals in their mind.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellie aka Ms. B View Post
    Urchin itself doesn't interfere with tracking. But doesn't mean they aren't looking at something in Urchin reports to justify the reversals in their mind.
    That's what I'm thinking. And it would be really wrong.
    I like SAS and I'm making enough money to don't care for the cents.
    Such a merchant could give a bad taste to a new affiliate. Even if you don't care it's upsetting to get reversals.

  10. #10
    Network Rep & ABW Ambassador Carolyn - ShareASale's Avatar
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    Hmm, looking into this one...

  11. #11
    SEO: A Specialty - Web Design: Slow or outsourced andbeyond's Avatar
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    They didn't want you to get a big ego.

  12. #12
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    I continue to be amazed by what goes on in the world of affiliate advertising.
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager ParadigmWilliam's Avatar
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    Where can I get my hands on the Urchin tracking system. Sounds awesome

    Seriously, I think all merchants should have to take a test or class before joining a network. Something that will help them understand it better.
    [URL="http://www.manageaffiliatelinks.com/"][COLOR="Red"][B]Manage Affiliate Links[/B][/COLOR][/URL] - Redirect Dead, Expired, or Broken Links

    [URL="http://www.wpcoupon.com/"][COLOR="Blue"][B]WP Coupon[/B][/COLOR][/URL] - Turn Wordpress into a Coupon Site!

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellie aka Ms. B View Post
    They are using Urchin as their tracking for the "in-house" program.

    "Clueless" is just not sufficient to describe this one.
    If the merchant is having affiliates put on their pages the merchant Urchin tracking code, then I don't think these merchants are "clueless". It is the affiliates who are clueless (and there are plenty of them who are new to this biz) because the merchants are then able to track the keywords driving traffic to their sites.

  15. #15
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladidah View Post
    If the merchant is having affiliates put on their pages the merchant Urchin tracking code, then I don't think these merchants are "clueless". It is the affiliates who are clueless (and there are plenty of them who are new to this biz) because the merchants are then able to track the keywords driving traffic to their sites.
    That would be worse!

    But Urchin is on the merchant's site.

  16. #16
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    ladidah, I don't think the merchant is asking the affiliates to use URCHIN. I believe it's installed on the merchant server. The result is the same, the merchant can still see the keywords driving traffic.
    I remember in 1994 I was working with MindSpring in Atlanta, my merchants too and we were using our server stats to track sales. It was before Affiliate Marketing and tracking codes. You really have to trust your partner.

    I got a second reversal of a $0 sale. It's a new merchant testing the tracking.
    Nobody reverses $0 sales and I got two in a few hours. Strange.

  17. #17
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Join MY program - I'll be happy to pay you nothing - LOLOL

    Did I just say that out loud????

    Now I have to login to sas and look at this merchant

  18. #18
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Just turn your computer monitor upside down and the reversal rate graph looks really good!!!!

  19. #19
    Outsourced Program Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellie aka Ms. B View Post
    I was saying that tongue in cheek.

    A 100% reversal rate is reason enough to avoid them.



    But I think SAS would have done a tracking prior to them launching?? Unless they started the in-house after launching on SAS? I guess SAS could not have known they had an in-house so didn't have an in-house cookie set during testing.

    Still, even if tracking wasn't set up correctly, there's no way ALL the in-house affiliate track was the last click in.

    The only reasons I can think of that something would track a $0 sale in the first place is either a) they have something for free on the site or b) they have a product mispriced on their site.
    I am an AM for Hotel booking site and we sometimes get $0 sales. I do reverse them cause even thou the amount is $0 We still pay a flat $10 commission on each booking and then of course SAS gets there cut. We have found that these sales are usually accidents as the customer back clicked and then clicked again to fast.
    Richard
    Affiliate Marketing Manager AMWSO
    Digestinol, Luxe-Design


    Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up. Pablo Picasso

  20. #20
    SEO: A Specialty - Web Design: Slow or outsourced andbeyond's Avatar
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    Urchin is actually the original name for Google Analytics. UA then your code is legacy from "Urchin Analytics" I think I remember. They bought them back a while ago.

    It is the standalone, on your server version of Google Analytics.

    It is still used for companies that dont want to share data outside their company.

    It costs money, where of course GA is free:

    http://www.google.com/urchin/

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard - AMWSO View Post
    I am an AM for Hotel booking site and we sometimes get $0 sales. I do reverse them cause even thou the amount is $0 We still pay a flat $10 commission on each booking and then of course SAS gets there cut. We have found that these sales are usually accidents as the customer back clicked and then clicked again to fast.
    In your case, Richard, it seems you have a pay per lead program so it makes sense to reverse the transaction.
    I'm getting $0 transactions for different reasons.
    With new merchants, it's quite often because their tracking code is not set properly and doesn't catch the amount of the transaction.
    For others it's because you can add products like free samples or a catalog in the cart.
    For some it's because the customer either uses the back button after the transaction or the page is reloaded. (Or they click twice too fast) I know SAS has something to prevent that but it's not always implemented correctly.
    The worse I've seen, it's when a merchant manually set your transaction to $0 to don't have to void it. (They don't want their stats to look bad.)
    It's not an exhaustive list and I'm not an expert.

  22. #22
    Outsourced Program Manager
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    Its not a pay per lead as we ONLY pay commissions for actual bookings made. Sometimes (we have not figured out exactly why) the amount shows as $0.

    IN your case if there is a sale made there shouod be an amount and you should receive commissions.

    It is true that the am can set the sale as zero to avoid 1. paying commisisons and/or 2. not affect his reversal rate
    Richard
    Affiliate Marketing Manager AMWSO
    Digestinol, Luxe-Design


    Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up. Pablo Picasso

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