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  1. #1
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    There has been enough sewage under this bridge and not much accountability!

    TigerDirect really gave us all the big wanker, you stated its because they were the very first merchant to sign up for ABW and they will stay no matter the issues.

    eToys/KBtoys went bankrupt owing numerous ABW members thousands and thousands of dollars, now they move to Linkshare and we have a choice - sign up or not. Linkshare is a part of the forum and SO WHAT...... Who cares if the merchant pays their bills?

    Linkshare is a part of 1800 solutions and the best they can say on the forums are we are giving them chances in the hopes we get our million. Hey understand we are trying as fast and as hard as we can to get our millions. Dang it everyone please wait while we get ours...

    And yet ABW harbors parasite networks.

    CJ --- well must I really go that far in the gutter?

    The list can go on for days...

    Will there really be any accountability weather it be ABW or affiliate marketing?

  2. #2
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    "And yet ABW harbors parasite networks."

    ABW has forums for the different networks because most affiliates have merchants in those networks. There are posts both negative and positive about each network in those forums. What's the problem?

  3. #3
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    Awwww... let's not shoot the messenger.

    ABW delivers the good, the bad and the ugly. Just like the morning newspaper.

  4. #4
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    If it weren't for ABW telling us what is going on with these programs we would be sitting ducks. ABW keeps us informed on the bad as well as the good. If you don't have the information, how can you make an informed decision? Just because something appears here does not constitute endorsement.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    What I find interesting is the AMs who frequent ABW trying to be a friendly, involved member of the ABW community, yet you go and check the various parasitic shopping lists, and there they are!

    How two faced can you be? Do they think we don't know which side their bread is buttered on? Give me a break!

    Andy

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Are you free of LS & CJ merchants? OF COURSE NOT!

    Look at your sig line -- you should be ashamed of advertising your services on ABW who 'harbor parasite supporting networks.'

    Anyway, most ABWers know that you're just gobbling around...
    SomethingStore.com - Surprise and Delight!

  7. #7
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    You are confused about the nature of ABW. Parasites are a part of the business and so ABW has them. For example, LS who has a forum enables and endorses 180. And 180 has its own free forum here where they can get helpful feedback.

    The thing I am confused about is why sites that list merchant-parasite relationships are banned and any mention of them is erased.

  8. #8
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    Well, I won't go as far as to say that ABW should be held accountable for doing business with networks and merchants that do wrong by us. This is a moneymaking forum that does sell advertising after all.

    However, Sandra is right when she states there is "not much accountability!" I myself would direct that at the networks and merchants though.

    There won't be any accountability either until affiliates find common ground and agree to take a stand in NUMBERS!! The numbers are here but I believe it’s forbidden by ABW policy on organizing any kind of action against those we feel are hurting us. So the accountability problem won't be solved here in the way I feel would make a REAL difference. How can it when there is a conflict of interest due to doing business.

    I do agree that this forum is a great source of information.

  9. #9
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    imho, it makes lurking at ABW both informative and entertaining.

    Without it we would be left with "can't login" threads.

  10. #10
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SandraR:
    Will there really be any accountability weather it be ABW or affiliate marketing? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    WOW!

    I wake up to see only a few got the message. There are days when a message can be written or read completely wrong. OHH WELL!

  11. #11
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    - - - - -
    There won't be any accountability either until affiliates find common ground and agree to take a stand in NUMBERS!! The numbers are here but I believe it’s forbidden by ABW policy on organizing any kind of action against those we feel are hurting us.
    - - - - -

    I think the biggest problem facing a group action is the fact that we are pretty much all an independant lot, and have many varied ideas as to what actions to take. Additionally, as individuals, there is a general feeling of vulnerability to counter lawsuits and such.
    One misstep, and the wolves will cull us from the pack, as it were, especially if they know our specific names and details. So, many affiliates, IMO, hold back, supporting the anti parasite issues, but wishing to avoid a lawsuit that might drive them into bankruptcy regardless of the validity of their claims.

    ABW is a light, shining down and scattering the bugs on our kitchen floor. The Networks, however, are the ones holding the cans of insecticide.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  12. #12
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    I'm more worried about parasitic companies lurking on our threads (notice as many lurkers as members?) and being tipped off by our observations.

    Was ABW ever a members-only forum, and if not, would it make any real difference?

  13. #13
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'm more worried about parasitic companies lurking on our threads (notice as many lurkers as members?) and being tipped off by our observations. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Thank you Herb Ô¿Ô¬ I've been saying this for a long time.

    BTW SandraR show us yer bum again
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  14. #14
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I was the 39th person to join ABW so here is the history for later joiners. ABW was started because CJ decided to shut down their own forum.

    A whole lot of CJ problems were being vociferously discussed and CJ apparently became fearful of the advertisers reading their own forum. Haiko got wind that it was going to be shut down and posted loud and long that we should all reassemble at ABW, which we did. CJ was pretty much forced to come here to cover their own asses. And, as I recall, at the time, they needed covering.

    Later ABW grew to what you now see. To say there should be no CJ forum seems strange when you know where we started.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    I remember well the final days at the old PJ* forums. PJ didn't want to have to deal with all the complaints and revelations, so they just shut the thing down.

    To their dismay, ABW began to thrive and grow to become what it is today. And it continues to grow...

    [*Parasite Junction]

    Andy

  16. #16
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Yep, CJ really tried to shut us up and put us out of contact with each other. Haiko saved the day.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  17. #17
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SSanf:
    To say there should be no CJ forum seems strange when you know where we started. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sandra,

    Again there are days when many people do not read correctly..

    I am not saying close down ABW or CJ. PLEASE slow down before you go off on a tangent.

    You are not the only person on this planet that remembers the first days of CJ or ABW. So please stop making this a bashing ABW thread, which it is not.

  18. #18
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I wake up to see only a few got the message. There are days when a message can be written or read completely wrong. OHH WELL!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Maybe you can restate your intended point? It reads to me that you are suggesting that Haiko should be held to some type of accountability (not sure exactly what though) which he isn't currently being held to because he allows forums here for entities who are engaging in practices which are bad for affiliate's revenue. The implication I get from your post that Haiko isn't doing what you feel he should be with regards to what you feel ABW should be unless those forums are not allowed. That's my perception of your post. If that is what you meant, I totally disagree but in the end I recognize it's Haiko's decision. But this is something that has been discussed numerous times in the past.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And yet ABW harbors parasite networks.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The Networks aren't parasitic...some affiliates are. The Networks harbor parasites. ABW provides a platform for Networks and affiliates to communicate on all issues. One issue being the Networks harboring parasites.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What I find interesting is the AMs who frequent ABW trying to be a friendly, involved member of the ABW community, yet you go and check the various parasitic shopping lists, and there they are! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    And ABW provides a place for affiliates to become aware of such practices. If a Merchant is doing that publicly here, they are doing it in private communications with affs. Kind of along the lines of Merchants who have opened forums here and then their true colors were shown by the way they ran those forums. Extremely valuable information for many affiliates who may have never known what those true colors were if they had not had a forum here.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And 180 has its own free forum here where they can get helpful feedback. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is not exactly the intent or purpose of the 180 forum or any of the forums in the parasiteware forum. Those forums are there for affiliates and merchants to be educated about those parasites. As far as 180 recently posting in that forum...well as outraged as many have gotten over those some of those posts, I can say that there have been many posts made there by 180 that have been extrememly helpful.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The thing I am confused about is why sites that list merchant-parasite relationships are banned and any mention of them is erased. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    While I doubt Haiko will ever say anything regarding this publicly, I will. Because they earned the ban! Many, many, many times over by the intentional attempts to disrupt these boards and this community because of differences way in the past. And why in the heck should he allow links on his boards to a site which has had numerous personal insults to him in the past and still does? I've seen some extremely personal insults on that site. And as recall, when that site first came out he allowed the links to it and actually congratulated the owner for their efforts dispite things that had transpired in the past. Then lots of personal attacks were being thrown his way elsewhere and in the chat here and more disruption of this board by the owner under numerous false id's. I think I would ban the URL also.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I myself would direct that at the networks and merchants though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Totally agree!!! And the way I see it having Network and Merchant forums allow affiliates a platform to strive for that accountability.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I believe it’s forbidden by ABW policy on organizing any kind of action against those we feel are hurting us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Legal action. And that policy is in place for the protection of board members themselves and ABW as a business entity, not to protect entities for having legal action brought against them. There are past lessons learned regarding this which lead to that policy.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>How can it when there is a conflict of interest due to doing business. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It's been said many times before, but is probably worth saying again. The Networks do NOT pay for their forums here. The forums are provided as a service to the community as a venue for communication to discuss the issues. Not all of the Merchant forums are paid either. Again they are provided as an avenue of communication. So the perceived conflict of interest seen by many isn't always really there.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm more worried about parasitic companies lurking on our threads (notice as many lurkers as members?) and being tipped off by our observations. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They do lurk. They do post under screen names you wouldn't recognize as such. At times those posts have been actually helpful. The concern of tipping off is legitimate and one that has been addressed here in the past. A private parasite forum was put in place to give a place for discussion. Many members took issue with a private forum. That forum became compromised because some allowed to participate were leaking information. So it was closed and an even more tightly controlled private forum was open. It's still there to my knowledge, but I don't think anyone has posted to it in months.

    SSanf...completely agree with both your posts. That's really starting to scare me.

  19. #19
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    Oops...crossed posted with you Sandra.

    Ok..so can you clarify what your point was..but it does seem to be yet another ABW bash post.

    I guess the wording of the title is confusing? Is your point not ABW/Haiko should be having to have accountability...but rather Yo..Haiko and all of ABW...we need to be trying to make some folks around here more accountable for their actions? If the latter, what do you see that could possibly be being done along those lines that isn't now? Do you have anything in particular in mind?

  20. #20
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    MsB.

    As I stated before there are days when writing and reading can be a difficult task.


    My main complaint concerning ABW and Haiko is the TigerDirect issue, and then I went on a rant that obviously confused everyone.

    Even if Tiger Direct was the very first one at ABW they should have been booted a long time ago. As you have taken the time to prove time and time again which merchants are stealing or working with parasites and CJ and Linkshare refuse to do anything about it. Haiko refuses to boot a KNOWN offender of affiliates TigerDirect, and evertime I see post form them it simply enrages me.

    Before Sandra or someone else goes on another rant. I like GUS, this is not a GUS RANT…

    I hope this clears things up.

  21. #21
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> please stop making this a bashing ABW thread, which it is not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is that what I was doing? <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You are not the only person on this planet that remembers the first days of CJ or ABW. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, dear, you will just have to forgive me. You know how old people like to reminisce.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Before Sandra or someone else goes on another rant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good grief, am I the bad one today, or what?

    I, too, am confused about just what you were trying to say......edited to add....

    About Tiger, if it weren't for ABW, who knows, I might have been foolish enough to use them. Now, I won't of course.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  22. #22
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    I support the idea of including *everything* at ABW. The good guys, the bad guys, and the vermin are all discussed here and that's been very helpful to me. (I haven't been around ABW since the beginning and I'm sure there are a lot of issues and conflicts that I'm not aware of.)

    I'm really not clear on what you said Sandra, or what you wanted to say, but I like ABW pretty well the way it is. It takes a bit of getting used to, but it's the most valuable resource I've found yet.

    And I'd like to congratulate EC for this quote:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ABW is a light, shining down and scattering the bugs on our kitchen floor. The Networks, however, are the ones holding the cans of insecticide. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'd like to nominate that for the annual awards as the best damn metaphor of 2004! Maybe before the year is out the networks will feel compelled to use that insecticide.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    What Ms. B said.

    Fred

  24. #24
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Point of clarification. There are two Sandras participating in this thread. She is SandraR and I am SSanf.

    I don't know if that helps anyone else but, personally, I get confused easily.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  25. #25
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    There are things I feel the board lacks where accountabitity is concerned.

    1) Moderation of threads is terrible and this is not just my opinion. The amount of junk posts and posts in threads attacking other people is rediculus and keeps many from thinking this forum is worth spending much time on and I agree with this.

    2) There is a "trusted merchant status" which implies IMO that this board attempts to gauge the trustworthiness of merchants with forums. This status hasn't been exactly "trustworthy" which doesn't lend much credibility.

    3) Gus in the tigerdirect forum has has "parasite freen in 2004 on his sig for how long now? Tigerdirect is not parasite free by this own boards definitions yet - an AM is allowed to diliberalty LIE and mislead affiliates in htis forum on a board supplied free? This is hardly accountable IMO.

    4) I'm sure there are many other things that Sandra was likely refering to but the board could use some improvements in the areas I described.

    There are many things that are also good at this board and while my reading and posting is much less than ever - I still come here but weed thru less and less posts because of the crap.

    It seems to be getting better lately but that seems from having fewer and fewer people even post LOL (which is likely due to the lack of accountability that was mentioned and the resulting issues).

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