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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Have more than $5000 in sales reversed from this month because of "invalid credit card" they posted. Who experienced the same with them?


  2. #2
    Full Member Jungleland's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    They do reverse many of the few orders I am able to generate for them. They have a 50%+ charge-back percentage in CJ.

    In my case, it's almost always due to "Invalid CC".

    "Don't let yesterday take up to much of today."

  3. #3
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    I complained to them and received this shortly thereafter:


    Subject: 10/24/02
    Date: 2002-11-11 13:15:13.0

    Dear Sir,

    thanks for being an affiliate and I''m sorry that you are disappointed in this reversed transaction, but I''ll try to explain things from our point of view and from our experience here at

    The items that we sell, branded urban clothing, has a high street value and as a result, attracts a lot of fraud attempts. Typically, when we see orders for high $ amount (in excess of say $300), requesting overnight shipping, and having differing bill-to and ship-to address, we manually credit check the order. If any information provided by the customer does not match the information on file with the credit card company, we do not fulfill the order as it will very likely result in a chargeback from the credit card company. When we receive a chargeback, it is 100% our liability - we are out of product, out of shipping costs, and out of any sales commission, such as the type generated as part of this affiliate network.

    In October, we had about 1,500 transactions through the CJ network. Of the 100 most expensive transaction, ranging from $425 in order value to $2,420 in order value, 81 were fraud attempts, 18 were approved and 1 was extended as we await the customer''s check, which is supposedly in the mail.

    Specifically your transaction, was billed to a K McNe**** (identity concealed due to customer privacy) of New York and requested shipping to a R Mar****, an address in the Bronx (an location where we''ve had many fraud attempts). Here are the exact customer service notes:

    "Bank will not verify, emailed that we need another form of payment 10/18/02.SDF"

    The customer did not respond within a three week period. The order was canceled.

    Just for your information, I looked at orders in the $20 - $43.50 range, of which there were 200 orders. 181 of them were approved and fulfilled. 19 were rejected. In other words, reasonable sized orders get fulfilled at a 90% rate. Large orders are less than 20%. It make sense that fraudsters would try for a big score, but a legitimate person, paying with their own money, would be more moderate.

    Understand that had we fulfilled those 81 fraud attempts (of the top 100 orders on CJ), would be out of $70,000. How long do you think a company can stay in business by allowing such things to happen?

    Believe me, I would much rather fulfill the order and thereby have a happy customer and reward affiliates accordingly. But I can only do that if the order is legitimate. If you have further questions, you may call me at 212-334-3652. If you''d like to stay in our program, we''d be happy to have you. If you would rather not, we understand and we wish you success on your site.

    Best regards, Jean

    --- Original Message Separator ---
    How do you folk make enough money to stay in business? You reverse every sale. Sorry, but I just
    do not find this track record credible.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    1,403 reversals continue and most of them are orders between $100 and $300 and even some reversals less than $100.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    I don't know, but the fact is, that there's more fraud orders that fraud merchants.

    In some types of products, especially those that has a market value (that can be sold on ebay etc.), the percentage of fraud orders are sky high. I (used to) maintain sites (as a web developer) for a few online merchants, and almost all of them, need to verify each and every order from some phoney-guys, especially after they were burnt and had sent orders to dead-end, and never saw their money back.

    On another note, were some merchant had reversed almost all orders (and that name was mentioned in the board, I won't say who that is), I know that that company had a technical problem with the credit-cards (changed banks), so they actually lost business, and were not able to proccess the orders for a few days/weeks.

    Point is, when there're problems with some merchants, note that, and decide if you want to keep or drop them, but it's not always that they're trying to get your $$.

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