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  1. #1
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    Giantnerd You Can't Be Serious
    We are looking to make the most out of our affiliate campaign and that means partnering with the best affiliates available. To determine who our best affiliates are and make sure they are being compensated fairly we are going to be running some tests over the next 2 weeks ending at the end of the month. This test includes taking some of our affiliates out of our network to understand the impact the affiliates have. While we have temporarily taken you out of our network, please understand that this is not necessarily permanent. For the next 2 weeks we will be monitoring and evaluating our traffic and then based on our analysis we will be reinstating our affiliates that have a measurable impact. If you are a stellar affiliate you should have nothing to worry about, you will be back in our network gaining top commissions in a very, very, short time. We appreciate your understanding while we work to make our program better for everyone, and as always are here to answer any questions you have.
    No notice. Just temporarily removed. Who dreamed this up as a good idea?

    10mins after the above email I got a 7 days notice of termination.
    Last edited by John Powell; September 15th, 2010 at 04:18 PM. Reason: More Info:


  2. #2
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    I wonder what AvantLink thinks of this?

    As to the genius who thought this up, I am drawn to the Peter Principle: "An employee in a hierarchy tends to rise to their level of incompetence."
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  3. #3
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    If a merchant temporarily removes me for "testing"...

    I will permanently remove them from my site....

  4. #4
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teezone View Post
    If a merchant temporarily removes me for "testing"...

    I will permanently remove them from my site....
    Absolutely. This is the end of their affiliate program - No experienced, successful affiliate would consider putting their links back up after the "two week test period".
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador superCool's Avatar
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    don't they have stats for that anyway? hopefully they know exactly how much traffic and sales you generate.

    GIANT NERD is right! And add HUGE DORK! Plus L for LOSER and F for FAIL.

    turds

  6. #6
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Boy. We've seen some bad ones in the past, but I think this might actually take the cake? amiright?
    Kevin Webster
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  7. #7
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    How would they not know how much impact affiliates are having? Unless they had disabled tracking mechanisms somewhere along the line.
    CUSTOM BANNERS by GRAPHICS CANDY ~ Banner Sets and Website Graphics ~ Professional design, reasonable rates
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  8. #8
    Influencer Marketing GravityFed's Avatar
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    We have advised them against this, and I am going to make sure I email this thread URL to the Giantnerd Mgt.

  9. #9
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Can we start voting now for the most moronic merchant of 2010?

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  10. #10
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rematt View Post
    Can we start voting now for the most moronic merchant of 2010?

    -rematt
    The should be named THE GIANTNERD TROPHY, now and forever.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador writerguy's Avatar
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    How incredible.

    I truly hope whoever Giantnerd's network management is, he (or she) will read this and have the courage to explain why they are really that stupid.

    Bottom line, as my wife (who does no affiliate marketing but has learned one or two things just watching me tear my hair out over such shenanigans) says: "That's theft. Just plain old theft, is what it is."

    Seems pretty close to that as far as I'm concerned. In this case it's probably not as outright egregious as if they'd terminated John without paying any commissions owed (although maybe the have or will??) -- but they certainly have "robbed" him of any future commission potential.

    Good lord. Just when you learn to hunker down and hope state and local governments won't ruin your business -- heck, the merchants themselves come along and do it to you??
    Generate more fake news.

  12. #12
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    I am the affiliate manager at Giantnerd and I am happy to address any issues our affiliates may have regarding the temporary removals that occurred today. I understand that some affiliates will dislike this move but in the end it is beneficial for both us and our affiliates to make sure that we have the best affiliates possible and can offer the best commissions. We'd much rather give larger commissions to a few great affiliates than low commissions to any affiliate who enters our network.

    If an affiliate should be reinstated at the end of the time period doesn't want back in our network that is unfortunate, but mostly for them as they would be losing commissions.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador writerguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantnerdJeff View Post
    ... We'd much rather give larger commissions to a few great affiliates than low commissions to any affiliate who enters our network.
    Wanna bet you aren't going to get many "great affiliates" if you cull out potentially great affiliates with that approach?

    I will be the first to admit that I don't meet any "great affiliate" definition with any of the merchants I've partnered with. But I keep plugging away at it, and I do occasionally generate a sale.

    Haven't ever looked at your site or your program, so I have no real opinion on that part of the game. But it really seems like an odd way to build either quantity or quality into your program. As "superCool" suggested above -- shouldn't you already have stats on your affiliates that tell you pretty well how they are performing, so why would you pull something like this?

    And I just tried repeatedly to go to your website to look it over. Don't know the problem, but my browser keeps timing out rather than connecting to your server.

    Couple of good "handfulls" of quality outdoor gear merchants already at AvantLink that I belong to -- who have better policies and treat their affiliates better than some sort of odd temporary termination experiment.

    I'll stick with them. I suspect a lot of other folks will too. Good luck.
    Generate more fake news.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantnerdJeff View Post
    If an affiliate should be reinstated at the end of the time period doesn't want back in our network that is unfortunate, but mostly for them as they would be losing commissions.
    Mostly for you because this is just a dumb idea.

    "To determine who our best affiliates are"

    That's what stats are for. And stellar affiliates wouldn't put up with this kind of thing because it shows a lack of understanding of the business and the possibility of doing something dumb again in the future. Not worth the risk.

    Side note, since you're an outdoor merchant. It's like over half the merchants on Avantlink are some type of outdoor merchant. So there is no shortage to choose from.
    Last edited by Trust; September 15th, 2010 at 07:17 PM. Reason: added quote

  15. #15
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    Is the cookie duration supposed to last longer than a browser session? Then you are ripping off any affiliate who may have referred a customer who waited til payday or whenever to come back and make a purchase.

    We'd much rather give larger commissions to a few great affiliates than low commissions to any affiliate who enters our network
    Who is to say that an affiliate who just signed up today would not be your biggest affiliate one day? Or that an affiliate who is barely active today may suddenly start generating a steady stream of sales next month, or the month after, or later in the year?

    All of your "best affiliates" were new at one point, and had only produced a single sale at some point.

    How is removing affiliates in any way beneficial to you? You only pay for performance. A non-performing or barely active affiliate does not add one single penny of additional expense to you. A ditched affiliate may very well be a sacrifice of tens of thousands (or more) of dollars in potential sales revenue.
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  16. #16
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    I won't comment on what you just said, Jeff. Affiliates and other industry folks will draw their own conclusions.

    However, your site offers this to affiliates, "120 day cookie duration gives you four months to make a sale and earn tons of money."

    So - with a 7 day time frame for terminating "some" affs, one might construe that you wouldn't give credit to, and pay the earned commission to, an affiliate whose customer comes back after their termination but within the cookie period. Can you address that issue - to assure all affiliates that you will honor your original agreement?

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador superCool's Avatar
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    who knows if john will be the next super great affiliate? who knows? what if Ridley Scott gave up on making movies after Boy and Bicycle? what then?


  18. #18
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    Thanks for all the feedback. I would like to clarify that this is only regarding coupon affiliate sites. My comments were taken a bit out of context as this is specifically targeted to Coupon only sites. We have no intention now or in the future of terminating any affiliates outside of coupon only sites and we are greatly appreciative of the affiliates that spend their time and effort promoting our site and adding value.

    We have found through our analysis that coupon only sites may not be adding value to our affiliate network and merely cannibalizing sales from others that would have taken place without them. Our data is showing that members are leaving the checkout, typing in GN coupon, and then converting from the affiliate coupon site. We should mention that we currently don’t have any live coupons.

    We are looking to identify the coupon affiliate sites that add value by having a loyal customer base and can add additional sales. We will continue to work closely with them and help them to make more affiliate commissions. We are looking to potentially remove coupon affiliates that are cannibalizing sales from our affiliate network in the method described above.

    We know this is a sensitive topic and we are not taking a definitive position at this time. We genuinely want to build a great affiliate network and we thank you for your time and support.

  19. #19
    notary sojac Herb ΤΏΤ¬'s Avatar
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    Thumbs down
    -never mind_
    Last edited by Herb ΤΏΤ¬; September 15th, 2010 at 08:31 PM.

  20. #20
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    The "good" affiliates that you hope to attract are going to gravitate away from a program that has quirky far out ideas. They have choices too and will move toward stability. Don't think they won't know the big picture, because news travels fast in the online world.


  21. #21
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantnerdJeff View Post
    Thanks for all the feedback. I would like to clarify that this is only regarding coupon affiliate sites. My comments were taken a bit out of context as this is specifically targeted to Coupon only sites. We have no intention now or in the future of terminating any affiliates outside of coupon only sites and we are greatly appreciative of the affiliates that spend their time and effort promoting our site and adding value.

    We have found through our analysis that coupon only sites may not be adding value to our affiliate network and merely cannibalizing sales from others that would have taken place without them. Our data is showing that members are leaving the checkout, typing in GN coupon, and then converting from the affiliate coupon site. We should mention that we currently don’t have any live coupons.

    We are looking to identify the coupon affiliate sites that add value by having a loyal customer base and can add additional sales. We will continue to work closely with them and help them to make more affiliate commissions. We are looking to potentially remove coupon affiliates that are cannibalizing sales from our affiliate network in the method described above.

    We know this is a sensitive topic and we are not taking a definitive position at this time. We genuinely want to build a great affiliate network and we thank you for your time and support.
    Your comments that I posted where a direct quote from your email and it was the total email with nothing left out.

    How do you know that I am a coupon only site. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    We should mention that we currently don’t have any live coupons.
    Then why do you have 3 offerings in the AvantLink coupon feed. That is why I put you on my coupon site because of those 3 listings.
    End:
    12-31-2037 10% Cash Back - Powered by Love! Giantnerd.com!...
    End:
    12-31-2037 Free Shipping - Powered by Love! Giantnerd.com!...
    End:
    12-31-2037 365 Day Returns - Powered by Love! Giantnerd.com!...
    I don't disagree with your thinking on coupons it's that you have a heavy handed uneducated approach. You should have come here and got to know the affiliate world prior to shooting yourself in the foot.

    Redemption is a beautiful thing though and we are a forgiving lot when we see repentance. It's not too late.


  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador JudiMoore's Avatar
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    So if you were the sales manager of a copy machine sales group and you decided to have a little "test", you would tell half the team to sit this month out and then later figure out which group sold more copiers? Yes, being facetious, but what is different about what you're proposing?

    If you knew how, you could take a look at every kind of performance without saying anything to anybody and THEN start terminating people. But if you've ever been in affiliate marketing before this gig, you already know the danger(s) of doing that.

  23. #23
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Jeff: I think you're far better off finding an analytics solution to apportion the credit for sales (even as a study as opposed to something you plan to take action on necessarily).

    Use cookies. They are there for a reason.

    On a side note, the coupon site value debate is not a new one. And without a specific technical solution to track EXACTLY how a consumer behaves during the buying process (which is impossible... different computers they use to surf, etc.), I don't think this experiment, or any of the others done in the past by MANY merchants really end up with any credible results.

    As for how affiliates feel about it... well, I don't think I need to add to anything already said in this thread.
    Kevin Webster
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  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador superCool's Avatar
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    giantnerd yay
    Last edited by superCool; September 15th, 2010 at 10:43 PM. Reason: trying to work with him in a productive manner

  25. #25
    Influencer Marketing GravityFed's Avatar
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    Jeff, thank you for coming in and engaging the community on this issue. If it helps, here is a link to a thread John also started earlier today.. that brings up the value of coupon sites and some discussion there,

    http://www.abestweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136770

    Folks, I do believe that Jeff in the end would like to do what's best. Giantnerd is a new (and personally I think really cool) web retail site/social shopping environment, so please keep that in mind.

    I know emotions run strong on something like this...especially for those who have invested time and effort in the program already, but let's try and work through it with him in a productive manner.

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