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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    Posting a new topic as this is way off topic on the original post about Buy.com

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>from Radegast
    It the networks don't want to take note of people's frustration and prefer to go into denial then they aren't following a mature business model.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thats your opinion, no prob

    If we don't act in as close to a professional mature manner who will?
    I know there are probably a few posts of mine weren't always the best, although I try to think things over a bit first.
    If we don't at least try to act with some integrity without the name calling we just get into a scenario like which came first the chicken or the egg
    Now we just keep going back and forth figuring out who call who a moron first. Too much energy is used when it could have been beter directed in actually doing something

    My first something I'd like them to do is lose the parasites they keep thinking warrant more attention than us.

  2. #2
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Xandman, I think you missed the target. I agree with Radegast.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You would not believe the big joke the people here are to many affiliate managers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yep, I beleive that is exactly what they say to you and each other. But, they sure jump through the hoops here. Or, haven't you noticed?<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't think the networks will change track according to anything they hear in this forum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh, really. So, you think CJ would have re-done the COC as they did lately if there was no ABW, do you? You think they would have just done it out of the goodness of their hearts if ABW members didn't call them out publicly, contact merchants, get publicity, keep their feet to the fire, educate the public, contact legislators, do research and who knows what else, right? HARDLY! There never would have been ANY COC in the first place if it hadn't been for ABW with all its bad mannered, outspoken, unprofessional members. Or, don't you remember?!<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If we don't act in as close to a professional mature manner who will? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why should anybody? Why do you want to impose such artificial restraints on people? I am sorry your comfort level with people who express themselves differently than you do is so low. You should work on that.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    Ssanf,

    Have you ever called (on the telephone) an affiliate manager (other than maybe Andy), when you had a problem with a program?

    Perhaps you have. Did you/would you tell them to their face (so to speak) the same things you said here at ABW?

    Do you treat what you do in the affiliate world as a business, or a hobby, or just something to do?

    Fred

  4. #4
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    First, you are comparing apples and oranges. Why? Because, if I call an AM on the phone, of course, I will couch my terms. The reason is BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHO I AM! That means you cannot be as honest and forthright, yes, even as rude as you would be in an anonymous forum. They can hurt you if you tick them off on the phone. They can cancel your account. Or, they can reward you by giving you a higher commission. Only through an anonymous forum can you really say what is on your mind and in no uncertain terms. The two are not comparable. Being unknown is one of the greatest values of a forum like this. Heck, even Todd said he didn't know my account number. What if he did, hummmm?

    For me this is neither a business nor a hobby nor a job. It is my preferred way to make honest money and that is all it is.

    (Todd was used for example, only. Actually, I give him credit for more character than that.)
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  5. #5
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    What you have to look at are the end results. A lot of parasites and others love it when we go crazy and get in the sandbox and call each other names and fight, makes us look like a bunch of crazies. Just like in the 180 thread i'm sure the 180 people say stuff they know will piss a lot of people off and then affiliates say DIE PARASITE DIE, you bunch of thieves etc. They baited and affiliates bite. The way to go back at them is the way Ben does, with knowledge and facts. As far as talking to networks and merchants, there are people we partner with and an open dialogue is the way to go. When it gets to name calling that dialogue is closed most of the time. Not necessarily because they have something to hide but maybe they don't want to deal with a bunch of adults acting like children. Need to keep the dialogue open, keep the conversation going.

  6. #6
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What you have to look at are the end results. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    All anyone HAS to do is eat, poop, and die. Everything else is optional!

    Do you get the feeling this is kind of a wasted conversation? No one is going to change no matter how much self righteous preaching is going on. People are who they are. And, they certainly have no intent of changing to please the high minded folks here. That's the long and short of it.

    Surely, you know enough about people to know that, don't you?
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
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    I do know you once said you like to argue.

  8. #8
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    The issues with this business and forum alike are actually very simple.

    People work in their P.J.’s, Underwear, or in the Nude for all we know!

    With this type of atmosphere we should all be fortunate when there is a professional decorum.

    I know I am.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SandraR:
    The issues with this business and forum alike are actually very simple.

    People work in their P.J.’s, Underwear, or in the Nude for all we know!

    With this type of atmosphere we should all be fortunate when there is a professional decorum.

    I know I am. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    While that may be true, the people we deal with - the networks, the AM's...they don't. Most work in suits, in offices..

  10. #10
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Yeah. I have often wondered what the heck is wrong with people who would settle for a life like that, seriously. I mean it. That is no way to live. It's creepy. I've had to do that for short periods of time but I always escaped very quickly.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  11. #11
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Do you get the feeling this is kind of a wasted conversation? No one is going to change no matter how much self righteous preaching is going on. People are who they are. And, they certainly have no intent of changing to please the high minded folks here. That's the long and short of it.

    Surely, you know enough about people to know that, don't you?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ditto!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  12. #12
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Connie Berg:
    While that may be true, the people we deal with - the networks, the AM's...they don't. Most work in suits, in offices. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Connie,

    Not to derail you but your statement is not true!

    I have meet the President of IBM in Canada playing Diablo, I have chatted up the CEO of many a company in an atmosphere that is completely unconventional!

    We are a people not restricted by coat and tie!

    I can still sit in my P.J.'s and conduct a very professional conversation. I can utilize my education to advance my business.

    When you reach a certain level of professionalism, you can and do accomplish it in P.J.'s.

    CAN you not tell that individual in question was and is young?

    If not perhaps you’re children are older than you remember!

  13. #13
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SSanf:
    Yeah. I have often wondered what the heck is wrong with people who would settle for a life like that, seriously. I mean it. That is no way to live. It's creepy. I've had to do that for short periods of time but I always escaped very quickly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't know what's wrong with them, but I agree with you. I've often wondered how CJ has *any* employees at all, with so many examples of people who don't need employment right there on their screens.

    I also aren't about to start acting as if anyone who doesn't even attempt to get out of THAT is more respectable than a Free Person.

    The very idea that someone should be talked to respectfully because they wear a suit or go into an office, is just disgusting. It may as well be suggested that prisoners be talked to nicely because they wear a uniform!

    And if the owners of places wear a suit, that's just a personal fashion decision. I'm not kissing up to some joker just because he has different tastes in clothes.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  14. #14
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    My Attire does not make me!

    My state of mind does!

    How people perceive me is the issue!

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    What I was trying to say is that some of you seem to think that just because you work in your jammies or whatever that you aren't a business person, or don't have to act like one.

    Some of you seem to think of this as a hobby and you can act however childish you want.

    Like it or not, this is a job, a business...
    You work for the merchants. You work for the networks. Without them you don't have this job.
    Learn some respect and act like adults.

    Treat others with some respect and you might get some back, and you might get taken seriously when you speak.

  16. #16
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    Where is Anytown, OO, USA anyway? Sounds like a creepy place to be.

    Don't know why I envision goblins, gnomes, trolls and huge eerie looking trees that have arms, to that address…..


  17. #17
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Learn some respect and act like adults.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Quit lecturing us.

    It won't work, and the genuine human response to a self-righteous lecture is GAG ME!

    And unlike REAL children, who have to suffer such self-righteous "wear-em-down" lecturing in silence, I am not too intimidated to SAY SO!

    So, "Gag me," and get over whatever age-related hangup you've got. If you're not convinced of your age by what it says on your driver's license, that's your problem.

    BTW, only a fool "learns" respect for that which does not deserve it!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  18. #18
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've often wondered how CJ has *any* employees at all, with so many examples of people who don't need employment right there on their screens. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    now there's an interesting thought . . . I bet the rank and file there are learning something important just knowing there are people like us doing our thing in what is to them an unconventional manner. there may be a definite attrition rate among them.

    and if they join us here I bet we could learn something from them.

  19. #19
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leader:
    The very idea that someone should be talked to respectfully _because they wear a suit or go into an office,_ is just disgusting. [QUOTE]You are missing the point. You should talk to them respectfully because your livelihood depends on their willingness to allow you into their program.

    I can tell you first hand that a vast majority of AM's think of ABW members as kooks and nuts. When you are disrespectful to affiliate managers, it reflects poorly on ABW as a whole. This forum and its members would be a major force to be reckoned with if the Affiliate Marketing industry took it seriously.

    In spite of what ever spin you can put on it to help you sleep at night, the fact of the matter is that you work for merchants. You think we work for ourselves, but only in as much as a plumber or landscaper works for himself. Sure, he owns the truck and the tools, but someone else pays the bills. And you have to treat the person who signs the bills with respect or you get axed.
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by SandraR:
    My Attire does not make me!
    My state of mind does!
    How people perceive me is the issue! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    And if people perceive you as a insolent, disrespectful and snotty, then that is an issue.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yeah. I have often wondered what the heck is wrong with people who would settle for a life like that, seriously. I mean it. That is no way to live. It's creepy. I've had to do that for short periods of time but I always escaped very quickly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>99.99 percent of the US workforce maintains a regular job. I guess that just makes you special, huh?

  20. #20
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Anytown is where anybody in this business can live. It is where you can be because you choose to be there not because circumstances compel you to be there. It is the best place in the world, no matter who you are.

    If this is a job where are my unemployeement benefits? Where is the workman's comp if I get hurt at work?
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  21. #21
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    Connie

    You got it all wrong. I DO NOT need any merchant to do business on the net...I can be a merchant fast and easy if I choose to be.

    The merchants NEED affiliates. Without affiliates 90% of all online businesses would not be in business especially if they have a CPA model. They would then have to pay real money up front to get visitors to see their offers.

    Merchants choose to be online and affiliates choose, which merchants they wish to promote.

    Any merchant who rejects any affiliate application when they use a CPA model is a total moron. FREE traffic can be monetized.

    People all think EPC is the big metric but it's really irelevant. What the metric that should be displayed is sales per 100 visitors.

    For a lead program, that number is easy to figure out, but for a per sale deal a bit harder.

    As for professionalism, wasn't it you awhile back whining about all the people claim jumping your 'flamingo world' name?

    You treat people in a professional manner who earn the right to be called professionals by acting professional.

    The people at the top of Linksuck and CJ are basically thieves. You think they are also professional. I don't see where it's a positive thing to be called a professional thief.

    I guess if drugstore.com DID NOT pay you the $89,000 you had coming, you would still call them a professional outfit?

    Yeah right!

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    What Connie said.

  23. #23
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Professional is paying as agreed for every single sale that is generated through the traffic we send them and paying it on time. That's what professional is! I don't care what words they use as long as signiture is good and the check can be cashed.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  24. #24
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If this is a job where are my unemployeement benefits? Where is the workman's comp if I get hurt at work? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It's a difference is being self-employed vs being employed, both of which contain the word employed. Being employed implies a job and work. Now if you doing AM full-time but not making any money from it at all and you are also not working for someone else in the traditional sense and receiving a paycheck, then you are unemployed. When you are unemployed only then is it true that you don't have a job. You might then be eligable for unemployment checks if you have paid into employment taxes as either an employee or someone who is self-employed.

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    JJ ...put out the ultimate trueism ..."People all think EPC is the big metric but it's really irelevant. What the metric that should be displayed is sales per 100 visitors."

    I've pushed the same logic since the first 2 major merchants come to ABW to be guiney pigs. If your willing to honestly publish your network wide conversion ratio and diligently work on improving it month to month then your a showcase merchant. All else is smoke and mirror excuses.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

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