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  1. #1
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Ok - what I want to know about the new COC -

    The networks say they are testing and they are stopping the parasites and making them comply. But they will not tell us who, or when or how much or what is being done to them as punishment. We are asked to believe and trust them.


    Why can't we know who got caught and what was done to them?


    When a law is broken, everyone gets to see the judgment and the punishment. We get to see that our laws are fair and working to help us. With this COC and no report and proof of punishment, we have none of that.

    Even in the old days you got to see the hanging - or they ran the bad guy out of town.

    All I get to see fat cat parasites driving their fancy cars on money they stole from us all.

    I want to see the hanging!
    I want to see proof of punishment!!!
    I want to see proof that something is being done!!!
    Ebudae


  2. #2
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    Would love to see it too, but unfortunately it's covered by confidentiality. Break the confidentiality and the responsible party gets sued for damages.

  3. #3
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    BTW, if they're going to do a hanging, I'll supply the rope.

  4. #4
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bob95603:
    Would love to see it too, but unfortunately it's covered by confidentiality. Break the confidentiality and the responsible party gets sued for damages. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Which is exactly why we need to demand some sort of accountability (or laws) Someone or some orginization to check and make sure - so they don't get off scott free.
    Ebudae


  5. #5
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    It's IMO a double edge sword for the networks. BY now, most merchants know or believe just like us that the term "in compliance" means SqUAT....

    It would seem that the networks would want their term to be considered as valid but the facts have continually shown where they are terrible at detecting violations and have a history of allowing open ended time frames for whoever "to make updates as needed".

    It would seem that the networks and the parasites would have much to gain from having the term in compliance being considered viable for both affiliates and merchants.

    If it was viable, affiliates wouldn't scream and yell at "every parasite" regardless of their current status, merchants who now refuse to do business with parasites would
    "if the term meant something". Networks and parasites are both missing a lot of opportunities because they have not openly discussed the issues and I personally don't think they will in the future either.

    As far as the confidentiality being used as an excuse for NOT comunicating with us regarding violations - well thats what it is IMO an excuse! I see DUI's, divorces, unpaid property taxes in the paper all the time. Networks can make changes "if they wanted to" to address making the term In complaince viable or not but it WILL TAKE DISCLOSURE in general to break the adament distrust that has built up over time.

    The fact that they haven't done anything meaningful (lots of smoke and mirrors) is part of the problem! They can make things better any time they want but they really don't want us to know their enforcement procedures or the status of slimeballs continually operating freely in the network.

    Merchants and affiliates have a vested interest in knowing who is not in compliance or has red flags raised by the networks. The networks have a vested interest in not telling us. The issue goes on.

  6. #6
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Would love to see it too, but unfortunately it's covered by confidentiality. Break the confidentiality and the responsible party gets sued for damages. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    This is a Nova COC....a Crock of Crap...

    All the Networks would have to do is add a little bit of text to their TOS saying they will show and tell to the public any funny business and there is not a bloody thing any parasite could do about it.

    They are still shooting the bull. I have no doubt they will continue to shoot it till the day they die, it is ingrained into them not to tell the truth if it is at all possible to bullshoot or spin their way around it.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  7. #7
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    Gordon,

    Totally agree with you. But that's not how the agreements are currently written.

    It's going to take having one of these networks grow a pair of balls and put an end to this crap. Something is either right or it is wrong. These half-baked TOSs are are simply a way for the networks to try to please everyone. The fact is they are pleasing no one.

    It's way past the time for the networks to stop focusing strictly on revenues and realize that doing the right thing will generate greater profitability for them.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    The "new" "revised" "updated" or whatever the h3ll you want to call it CoC is just more network spin. Notice how the words used in the document leave room for individual interpretation: instead of clearly saying something, they use language that leaves a window open for future interpretation by the network. It's a device used frequently these days.

    The original CoC said things like "no interference" yet popping up a window on a merchant's site after clicking an affiliate link is still tolerated by the networks. That sounds like interference to me!

    There is no accountability, and there never has been. Look for more software "bugs" as we approach the Holiday season. And yes, the networks will give them PLENTY of time to make fixes, like until after the Holiday rush has passed! Enjoy it for now, thieves, it will all come crashing down someday. And the aftermath will be like Chernobyl - deserted and unusable.

    Andy

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    "Cheaters never win and winners never cheat." It's always going to be the affiliate's job to determine the difference. Like many other businesses that are infected with theives and con men you have to do your own due-diligence and make your business decisions accordingly.

    I beleive our power lies in the ability to promote honest merchants and drop the scumbags feeding off of our efforts. It's our job to determine which merchants produce a ROI and those who don't. We're not going to get any useful info from those who profit from parasites. If you don't like the way trusted third parties treat us then don't rely on them to protect your business. Only you can do that.
    ~Ernie

  10. #10
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Parasites feed off every piece of keyword text on internet pages. Parasites feed and trigger on all network merchants URL landing pages. They are equal opportunity thieves.

    ...."The original CoC said things like "no interference" yet popping up a window on a merchant's site after clicking an affiliate link is still tolerated by the networks. That sounds like interference to me!"

    The only thing the networks did, before 180Solutions tactics surfaced, was push the Adware popups to only appear at the destination merchants point of sale system. They did a stats study and determined, with their collective brain trust, that commissions don't get assigned to their theftware buddies till someone actually buys something.

    The popups trying to influence or hijack affiliates site traffic, on the affiliates own pages, was considered to be part of the value-add/pre-sell responsibility of normal affiliates. Therefore not to confuse BHO's with normal affiliates, who actually have to work on merchant's behalf to earn commissions, the networks changed the CoC to eliminate the confusion. Now it's perfectly clear that no BHO S/W affiliate has to perform any value add pre-sell work to earn a commission and can basically cease to even own or maintain their 5 page merchant directory sites. Hidden BHO bundling in kiddie Freebee games, Britney & Barney screen savers, cutsie smilies get network seal of approval. Drive-by installs and stuffing of BHO's via computer virus trojan horse backdoors (aka the SAHS favorite) get the network seal of approval. So the network green light is given the BHO's to continue to devise scumbag was to infest systems and make un-installs evermore a technical assistance task.

    Only thing put in writing that changes the playing field is this. A physical click is supposed to take place to set a tracking cookie. The networks will determine if this requirement is being adhired too by their BHO luncheon buddies. The affiliate and merchnat community is tasked to catch and OUT the hord of cookie stuffers using the poorman's BHO tricks. They know the only venue where this could have an impact is at ABW, who has 8-10 thousand cookies stuffing tricksters protecting their game plan.

    Basically it's checkmate for this Holiday season unless the SE's clean out the nests of cookie setting tricksters with PRO rankings.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  11. #11
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Cheaters never win and winners never cheat." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I was brought up to believe in this but the honest truth is, it does pay, they do win and they are very prosperous, especially when you have Networks like these kissing their butts.

    Even the Networks themselves are now fully fledged cheats, so much so that they give the parasites their full blessings to continue to steal from us. The new COC's show this, they are not even worth the paper they are wrote on and do or say nothing to stop the thefts of our commissions.

    As for privacy in not revealing who or what penalties that is the biggest load of corporate crap I've read on the boards. It is nothing more than a cover up so we can waste our time and complain all we want about the parasites and their tricks and the Networks do not have to do zip about it.

    You can bet your life there will be rush of glitches on the run up to the Xmas season but unlike in past seasons I don't think a lot of them will even bother to try to hide the fact they are working outside the COC's, they know the Networks will not do zip.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  12. #12
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andy:
    There is no accountability, and there never has been. Look for more software "bugs" as we approach the Holiday season. And yes, the networks will give them PLENTY of time to make fixes, like until after the Holiday rush has passed!
    Andy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Right on!!

    And funny that not one participant in this "new and improved" COC has bothered to give any assurances that they will give proof and that they are doing something.

    They just come in, drop a little note on how wonderful the new COC will be - schmooze a few posts on how great it is and then poof, ya don't hear anymore about it.

    And doesn't it gall you that the parasite had the nerve to say that they were in compliance now? And their proof was because we all agreed in that new COC post that we were glad the networks wanted to do something? They just rubbed our noses in it.

    Yes, they all got what this little PR move intended - Kinda like they did it just so everyone will shut up and quit talking about it.

    Ebudae


  13. #13
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    If you agree to the terms of service and the privacy and confidentiality agreements for any given affiliate program, and you violate those terms by running an illegal site or what not. Isn't any agreements void. So why would confidentiality come into play?

    To win a civil case in court you must come in with clean hands. If you don't come into court with clean hands the judge doesn't even have to hear your case.

    I think the problem is merchants really don't care how they get the sale as long as they get it and only take action when an affiliate complains.

  14. #14
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    "If you agree to the terms of service and the privacy and confidentiality agreements for any given affiliate program, and you violate those terms by running an illegal site or what not. Isn't any agreements void. So why would confidentiality come into play?"

    Agree with the first sentence. If any of us violated a TOS, we'd be out of the program in no time. It's just that the networks are more interested in money than doing what is ethically right.

    Confidentiality comes into play because it's in the TOS. Vioating the TOS does not allow the other party to state information which has been deemed to be confidential.

    "To win a civil case in court you must come in with clean hands."

    This isn't true. You can win a case of slander whether what was said was true or not. Slander has nothing to do with whether or not you were right or wrong. It has to do with whether or not a person or company was defamed and harmed by the defamation.

  15. #15
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    What gets me is the fact that it is so easy for them to alter the COC or TOS without asking any affiliates permission, yet when someone is stealing or cheating or doing any other scam they cannot do zip about it because of privacy....

    Give me a break, this is yet more corporate cr*p and you know it.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  16. #16
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    Gordon,

    It's a piling on of the corporate crap. They keep getting caught at their deceptions and just keep piling it on to justify what they are doing.

  17. #17
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    Privacy, yeah right. We've seen plenty of cases where an AM came to these forums and announced that Company X has been doing nasty things and are kicked out of the program on their worthless butt.

    The difference with the networks in question is that when absolute proof is presented, they're going to kiss those worthless butts after a brief suspension period, usually timed to end prior to a big selling season.

    It's the difference between those with ethics and those who are little more than parasite pimps.

    Wayne

  18. #18
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Ok - what I want to know about the new COC - <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Bah - its all smoke and mirrors. The networks are in bed with the parasites, have been from the beginning and will continue to be - forever.

  19. #19
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    The Christmas season will tell whether they are clean or not.

    Just make sure we do our test purchases anonymously throughout the season and report any nontracking glitches publicly here.

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