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  1. #1
    Banned Snowfinch's Avatar
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    The Direction of ABW
    It has been suggested ABW is dying. It has been suggested ABW is growing.

    Is ABW dying? How? Why? What is the problem(s)? What is the possible solution(s)? Is the forum moving in the wrong direction?

    Is ABW growing? How? Why? What are the positives taking place on ABW? Are you encouraged by recent changes? Is the forum moving in the right direction?

    I ask for your total HONESTY. Give an HONEST answer. Vote HONESTLY.

    NOTE: I also ask that Michael Coley not respond to this thread, other than for moderation reasons. As administrator, any response may influence the discussion in a negative why. By that I mean, as administrator, some members may see his position of power and his response may influence their response.

  2. #2
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    The options listed are kind of sterile and categorical. Pigeonholes.

    What is "the right direction"? What is "the wrong direction"? Who says?

    It's a forum. It may go in 26 different directions today, 32 different directions tomorrow, 17 the next day.....
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  3. #3
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidh View Post
    What is "the right direction"? What is "the wrong direction"? Who says?
    I can't vote until the terms "right direction" and "wrong direction" are defined
    What might be right for one affiliate could be wrong for another
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  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador superCool's Avatar
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    superCool is waiting for direction from Michael Coley, then he will respond

  5. #5
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    What a waste of bytes.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  6. #6
    Banned Snowfinch's Avatar
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    WRONG DIRECTION - This does not any anyway imply that there is not changes for the better taking place on ABW. It simply means you believe there is more negatives than positive currently taking place on ABW.

    RIGHT DIRECTION - This does not any anyway imply that there is nothing but positives taking place on ABW. It simply means that overall you believe the positive outweighs the negative.

    This was meant to be a generic question. Do you believe the positives (right direction) on ABW outweigh or outnumber the negatives (wrong direction)? Or do you believe the negatives (wrong direction) on ABW outweigh or outnumber the positives (right direction)?

  7. #7
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    Another meaningless, biased survey. None of the three options describes my viewpoint; I certainly am not "neutral" on the topic.

    I've certainly perceived some changes since the ownership change. Some of the changes have been positive. Some have been negative. Overall, I feel that ABW has become "slightly less useful," not just for me but also for most web publishers (affiliates) and also for merchants.

    My perception is that there are fewer active participants who are experienced web publishers (affiliates), and there seems to be an increase in posts by newbies, with fewer-but-more-friendly responses to those posts.

    Last year, I disagreed with several "moderation decisions," and as a result, I "mostly" stopped participating here for several months (even when I resumed work on active web projects that would have led me to ask questions and initiate discussions in past years). I had already stopped looking to ABW for some types of information and feedback that I found very useful in the past.

    Some have suggested that a higher percentage of posts are being made by OPMs, a perception that I share, but I don't blame any OPMs for the practices or changes that I perceive to be negative. They're just the folks with the strongest immediate interest in maintaining the ABW community.

    Yet I don't think it's fair to say that "ABW" or "the ABW Community" or "ABW's management" is "moving in the wrong direction."

    I certainly think it might be helpful for ABW's management to solicit some honest, specific feedback about members' perceptions of specific changes in the community. That's not accomplished by creating biased surveys (nor by fabricating or trying to start arguments).

    I don't think "right" or "wrong" are appropriate terms to use in referring to relatively subtle changes in the direction of a community, at least in this situation. The community is changing, and some policies and practices have changed, and the engagement level of many individual members has changed. As a result, the community is becoming less comfortable or less useful for some folks, but it's probably also becoming more comfortable and useful for other folks.
    Last edited by markwelch; January 26th, 2011 at 02:35 PM.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador writerguy's Avatar
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    So -- "right" and "wrong," as well as "negative" and "positive" are all really too objective.

    My personal opinion is that ABW is changing as more newbies seem to be posting here than previously. But that's just my personal opinion.

    As far as "right direction" or "wrong direction," I don't know. Having more newbies posting here, and having them ask questions that may have been answered repeatedly over the years, is personally a bit annoying. But then, "personally annoying" isn't exactly the gold standard for deciding whether ABW is right/wrong or better/worse than it has been over the years.

    Mostly just different.

    Gary
    Generate more fake news.

  9. #9
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    To me, this statistic is a true marker of the direction that A Best Web has taken over the past couple of years - The number of new members who joined and became active participants, with enough posts to qualify for the "Best New Member" Award:
    2008 - 55
    2009 - 10
    2010 - 3

    It is above all else, very sad that while many new people join, for whatever reason, few are staying and becoming active.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
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  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffiliateHound View Post
    To me, this statistic is a true marker of the direction that A Best Web has taken over the past couple of years - The number of new members who joined and became active participants, with enough posts to qualify for the "Best New Member" Award:
    2008 - 55
    2009 - 10
    2010 - 3

    It is above all else, very sad that while many new people join, for whatever reason, few are staying and becoming active.
    Those numbers aren't right. There were more than that who qualified in 2010. Only 3 were nominated. Whether or not that indicates anything good or bad about ABW's direction is debatable.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Personally, yes, I think it's annoying when it takes a while to implement features members want. As a programmer, and specifically one that's worked with VBulletin, it's not easy to implement some of the suggested improvements. Programmers can't just wave a magic wand and implement all this stuff. If we could, we'd all be friggin' millionaires. LOL. iNet is listening and they're working on it. I am patient. Patience is, after all, a virtue. We'd be worse off if they refused to take input from us and I've been a part of communities where that happened.

    As far as conversations on the forums go, if you don't like what you see, don't gripe about the lack of relevant conversation. START it. ABW is a community and what WE make of it.

    Also, I don't think it's appropriate to exclude Michael Coley from the conversation. He may be administrator, but he's also a member of the community. He was a member long before he became an administrator.
    Last edited by meadowmufn; January 26th, 2011 at 03:12 PM.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    It is what it is. In the global sense there is no right or wrong direction. But, the house that Haiko built is not the house that ABW now is. The tolerance approach of the "kinder gentler ABW" in my opinion is unwittingly encouraging a lot of newbies with misguided affiliate marketing ideas that are met with only occasional resistance by members. Consequently ABW is becoming infested with a flood of garbage affiliates.

    Tolerance to non-mainstream product marketing may well have undesirable consequences too. Building a house in the low rent district will attract a low rent clientèle.

    Used to be that I recognized most of the names in the logged in users list. Not anymore. I recognize 20% or less at this moment. I spend little time here because there is just not much content that interests me. And a large portion of that content is simply promotion by AMs, OPMs, merchants, and networks.

    So right direction/wrong direction is purely subjective and defined by the subscriber's desires. In that sense, for my purposes, I suppose I would have to say that ABW is headed in the wrong direction. Because that's only my opinion based on my set of values, voting the poll above would be pointless.

  13. #13
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Also, I don't think it's appropriate to exclude Michael Coley from the conversation. He may be administrator, but he's also a member of the community. He was a member long before he became an administrator.

  14. #14
    Speechless OTProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom or Bust View Post
    It is what it is. In the global sense there is no right or wrong direction. But, the house that Haiko built is not the house that ABW now is. The tolerance approach of the "kinder gentler ABW" in my opinion is unwittingly encouraging a lot of newbies with misguided affiliate marketing ideas that are met with only occasional resistance by members. Consequently ABW is becoming infested with a flood of garbage affiliates.

    Tolerance to non-mainstream product marketing may well have undesirable consequences too. Building a house in the low rent district will attract a low rent clientèle.

    Used to be that I recognized most of the names in the logged in users list. Not anymore. I recognize 20% or less at this moment. I spend little time here because there is just not much content that interests me. And a large portion of that content is simply promotion by AMs, OPMs, merchants, and networks.

    So right direction/wrong direction is purely subjective and defined by the subscriber's desires. In that sense, for my purposes, I suppose I would have to say that ABW is headed in the wrong direction. Because that's only my opinion based on my set of values, voting the poll above would be pointless.
    A lot of this echoes my thoughts. It seems like their has been a major exodus of those who provided quite a lot of information, humor, colorful commentary, intrigue, and the like to ABW. Some of this may have been fatigue related, but obviously new places to interact (new forums, other forums, social sites) affects this. Ditto the increased challenges of this industry (thanks a lot Google!) and the overall economic mess no doubt has taken people out of the game & thus out of the discussion.

    As some have mentioned, it seems like a lot more newbies (not a bad thing for sure, except there doesn't seem to be the growth trajectory toward contribution), a lot of threads that barely get interaction, and such.

    Michael is a good guy who works hard and seems to have a lot of integrity. I do wonder what his "vested interest" is in the site (none of my business by way of details but it would be helpful to know the general idea). He has often responded to the "its quiet in here" types of threads started over the past year with how page views/etc. are up, but obviously those metrics aren't translating into maintaining the activity level and vibe of the place.

    I was shocked to read in the other thread in the Inner Circle that he has been waiting over a year for what he views as important upgrades/changes/features to ABW but is still in the iNet queue for getting these done, let alone less priority projects and ideas. Yikes!! Thus I said it was dying (yes, I confess!!) -- but maybe the better image is that it is being reborn into something different than it was previously. Maybe more newbie friendly but less relevant to veterans.

  15. #15
    Speechless OTProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal View Post
    Ditto this too

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    gonna comment real quickly on just one thing
    Michael should definitely be included in any of these discussions

    oooh, just happened to spot my post number is at 3,333 uhh not that it means anything lol just strange
    Last edited by purplebear; January 26th, 2011 at 03:47 PM.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom or Bust View Post
    Tolerance to non-mainstream product marketing may well have undesirable consequences too. Building a house in the low rent district will attract a low rent clientèle.

    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  18. #18
    Banned Snowfinch's Avatar
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    Michael Coley is free to comment and join the discussion. All I ask, and I probably don't have the right to ask this, but I am asking anyway.

    Please let this discussion continue even if it does get a little "un-civil". Some members have brought up some EXCELLENT points.

    Let's talk about it. It isn't "us vs you" or "us vs them". It is a heartfelt discussion by members who are concerned with the current state of affairs on ABW.

    Let us all reason together. Listen to us and our concerns and ideas.

    Time to be honest and open about a lot of things. However, a lot of members are choosing not to participate or rarely participate because, in part, to the reasons members have brought up above.

    So, I never meant to totally exclude Michael. I just wanted the discussion to get off the ground before he joined in.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador kse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwelch View Post
    Overall, I feel that ABW has become "slightly less useful," not just for me but also for most web publishers (affiliates) and also for merchants.

    My perception is that there are fewer active participants who are experienced web publishers (affiliates), and there seems to be an increase in posts by newbies, with fewer-but-more-friendly responses to those posts.
    I did not vote, but this statment by markwelch is alot like how I feel and have been feeling for some time now. ABW is now a Merchant Forum to push their products to Affiliates and is no longer a "Good" forum for affiliates to work together.

    Kevin.........
    Last edited by kse; January 26th, 2011 at 03:59 PM.
    MERCHANTS: Start showing your coupons directly on your site, that way your shoppers will stop leaving your site looking for them!! If not then remove your Coupon Box!!

  20. #20
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfinch View Post
    It has been suggested ABW is dying. It has been suggested ABW is growing.

    Is ABW dying? How? Why? What is the problem(s)? What is the possible solution(s)? Is the forum moving in the wrong direction?

    Is ABW growing? How? Why? What are the positives taking place on ABW? Are you encouraged by recent changes? Is the forum moving in the right direction?

    I ask for your total HONESTY. Give an HONEST answer. Vote HONESTLY.
    With the limited options on this poll, I don't think you're going to get an accurate view of how we all may feel about the current status of ABW, because that same poll can be used to ask about the current status of Google...
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfinch View Post
    Time to be honest and open about a lot of things. However, a lot of members are choosing not to participate or rarely participate because, in part, to the reasons members have brought up above.
    I don't think that too many of regular members are willing to continue be too open to about a lot of things, at least not in the way that we may had done in the past...

    Things change, and life goes on...

  21. #21
    OPM/Moderator Hectic GHC's Avatar
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    What is lacking? Someone like Haiko that posted every 7 seconds to spur every single thread into one direction or the other. My two cents. So who is willing to step up and be that kind of a member?

  22. #22
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    ...to spur every single thread into one direction or the other...







  23. #23
    Influencer Marketing GravityFed's Avatar
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    I don't have a vote to give, not even a neutral vote. This tag on the thread made me chuckle, though

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary-AvantLink View Post
    I don't have a vote to give, not even a neutral vote. This tag on the thread made me chuckle, though
    LOL.


    Drama belongs on Broadway.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  25. #25
    Banned Snowfinch's Avatar
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    Maybe that is exactly what this forum needs. More DRAMA.

    I always did like dramas more than sappy love stories, which sadly, at time is what ABW feels like.

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