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  1. #1
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    http://www.1-free-cell-phone-fx.com/ this is not mine, not sure whois it is.. But that same design i have seen all over the place its almost like a directory site but I can tell its an affiliate site, so where are they making their money, how in earth did they set it up? is it all handcoded or datafeed run?

  2. #2
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    do you think they make money from it and is it worth doing

  3. #3
    Affiliate Manager
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    Hi,
    this is not an affiliate site.
    But, instead, there is someguy in asia somewhere, who purchases tons of expired domains that all still get some traffic. He then puts those sites up, using the findwhat pay per click search engine to monetize the traffic that this domain still gets.
    The person does that with a huge number of domains (30,000 or more) and makes pretty good money of it, I heard.
    You can read a story about that guy here:
    http://www.expiredtraffic.com/index.php?page=ultsearch (not my site)

    Hope that helps,

    Thomas
    Thomas Burgemeister - Affiliate Manager
    affiliates@LensWorld.com - 425-372-3471
    LensWorld.com: 10% commission, 120 return days, parasite free - Sign up at <a href="http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=20626">ShareASale</a>.

  4. #4
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LastHope:
    http://www.1-free-cell-phone-fx.com/ this is not mine, not sure whois it is.. But that same design i have seen all over the place its almost like a directory site but I can tell its an affiliate site, so where are they making their money, how in earth did they set it up? is it all handcoded or datafeed run? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They buy expired domains. I thought they only went after mine but apparently they figured out why I let mine go.

    Those links go to a ppc search engine affiliate program. They probably earn a percentage from each paid click. One way to tell if a place is an affiliate of a ppc is by looking where it says top searches. If you see and I'll qoute from the site itself:

    " Travel
    • Health
    • Cars
    • Mortgage
    • Computers
    • Gifts
    • Flowers
    • Insurance
    • Jobs
    • Homes
    • Diet
    • Education
    • Shopping
    • Music
    • Dating
    • Electronics
    • Cell Phones
    • Debt Consolidation
    • Investing
    • Credit Cards
    "
    You can bet it's a ppc. Real top searches are for Britney Spears, Paris Hilton etc. but don't generate much revenue.

  5. #5
    Devil's Reject Electropulse's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "Yun Ye's checks are so big that if you saw them your eyes would pop out and bleed" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


  6. #6
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    If you click thru on the links there (at these deleted domains directory deal), it seems to be picking up traces of Overture...

    Example:
    http://www.pcsvisionusa.com/?OVRAW=w...OVMTC=standard

    Those extra characters are the Overture Tracking tags appended by Overture's system...

    So the guy who runs this - the guy who takes over deleted domains and makes it a pay-for directory system for affiliates - he could be getting revenue from the affiliates he signs up as advertisers...

    And from Overture (similar to adsense making money for your own site)...

    Now, since I show up there (under a category I'm not naming here)... I've got to wonder HARD if I'm paying double!!! Once to the guy as a deleted domain guy (not naming the service I've signed up with) and ALSO once as a client of Overture...

    Is this possible?

  7. #7
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    If that's what's happening, then it's no wonder the deleted domain directory type services can charge so little per hit... I'm not the only one paying them directly...

    But I guess the 0.4 cents I pay the deleted domain guy ($100 / 25,000 hits) only adds a very small amount to what I pay to Overture... so maybe I'm not a huge idiot after all...

    That debate rages on.... :-)

  8. #8
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    That's an outfit called Ultimate Search based in Hong Kong I think. They buy expired domains and display PPC results on them.
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  9. #9
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    And so they get a cut from Overture.... makes sense.

    But...

    Unrelated to that... I think...

    If the hits site I signed up for is 0.4 cents a hit ($100 / 25,000)
    -AND-
    ***IF*** the ads they show (they say they show them on deleted domain sites) are also coming from Overture...

    Then I am a huge idiot!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Let's say I pay $0.30 (30 cents) a hit from Overture for someone searching at Yahoo for my product (good traffic).

    Versus

    Let's say I pay $0.304 (30.4 cents) a hit from my new hits service (that also comes through Overture for him to get a cut (that I didn;t know about when I bought from him)) AND I just paid him $100 to make sure I get 25,000 hits... then I'm paying 30.4 cents (more money (and more hits)) for traffic that comes from people looking for a domain (that's now deleted) and they stumble across a directory listing related to my product - but weren't looking for my product really (bad traffic).


    My hits service guy better not be double-dipping thru Overture because:
    1) He didn't disclose that
    2) My gross monthly traffic costs will go up a lot more than the $100 and my traffic will be diluted with less-than-good visitors...


    ***IF*** my guy is double-dipping, then...

    the debate about the enormity of my stupidty rages on... while Nero fiddles away making his cuts from both sides...

    And I'm chipping in more money to make my own existing traffic convert less...

    Maybe the debate is over...


    Anyone ever sign up with a traffic service and come to find out they're getting double-dipped?

    This "IF" question is a biggie for me...

    Guess I'll know if my daily Overture PPC tallies go up accordingly... if so, I'll let ABW know the name of the service I signed up for that let's you screw yourself, convert less, make your visitors logs look great, wreck your profit... all for only $100...

    We may also need to debate whether or not I'm just a rambling delusional paranoid affiliate... not such a rare animal I hear... :-)

  10. #10
    I like traffic lights
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    &gt;The person does that with a huge number of
    &gt;domains (30,000 or more)

    30,000? Last count - 113,384

    http://www.webhosting.info/webhosts/...ob=RANK&oo=ASC

    Most of the big players run their on PPC pages, driven by Overture or others.

  11. #11
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Donuts will your logs not tell you what site (URL) the hits are coming from?
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  12. #12
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Yes, they can / do.

    But they can't tell me if the person there at that URL **ALSO** incurred a cost to me because they clicked on an Overture / PPC link there...

    I'm no server log expert, so I'll ask...
    Does this make sense to everyone?

    It's a question similar to...
    If someone clicked on an AdSense Ad somewhere to come to your site, would your site's logs list the referring URL as Google? Or would it list the site where they clicked on the AdSense Ad? I think it's the latter. If so, you can see why the referring URL doesn;t solve my puzzle...

    But I think I can salvage your idea... if I poke around at enough referring URLs, I should start to trip across these standard directories posted at the deleted domains (where the service I hired to get traffic posts them).

    If it turns out that those directories also tick me via Overture, I'm hurting myself.

    If not, the cost per visitor is only 0.4 cents each - and I'm good.

    Once I put the pieces together, I'll advise here...

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador parentsworld's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Donuts:

    It's a question similar to...
    If someone clicked on an AdSense Ad somewhere to come to your site, would your site's logs list the referring URL as Google? Or would it list the site where they clicked on the AdSense Ad? I think it's the latter. If so, you can see why the referring URL doesn;t solve my puzzle...
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They definately show the referring site, in my stats there's no reference to Google in the refer logs but if I load a referring URL I can see my adsense ad on the side of the page.

  14. #14
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    EXACTLY!

    So this outfit I signed up with could have hundreds or thousands of deleted domains now running their ads I paid for (and they MIGHT also be pumping PPC from Overture through there... like the site that started this thread).

    Only way I'll know is if my PPC costs show the added costs.

    Two things calming my paranoia (before the 3-4 days it'll take to see the costs and know either way):
    1) Why would they dip me for 0.4 cents - surely they get 5x to 10x that amount from Overture (like AdSense pays people that show their Ads) - the admin, questions, support and what not wouldn't be worthwhile to me if I was them... plus we affs are loud mouths and would blow their gig
    2) If I didn't happen run PPC ads - I assume they'd still accept my $100... so maybe what they do has nothing to do with Overture or double-dipping...


    It's just that the site that started this thread
    http://www.1-free-cell-phone-fx.com
    Is definitely Overture stuff...

    So question is "who ever is doing that behind the scenes (hosting those deleted domains sites), are they also charging folks like us for traffic?"

    I hope not...

    Will tell in a few days...

  15. #15
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Donut,

    I've seen some of these outfits have just PPCSE listings. I've seen some that have both PPSCE listings and straight listings to sites which is most likely the types of ads your are buying. Of course you have everything right to ask y9our expired guy where your ad is being checked and go make sure that your link showing you are paying the deleted domain ads for is there. It's not really double dipping unless you pay for ads there and only your Overture ad is showing. If your deleted domain guy is also running PPCSE listing then you could wind up with 2 ads showing on their site (one for the deleted domain ad and one for the PPCSE) but that wouldn't technically be double dipping.

    You can actually make sure your true deleted domain ads are being shown as they should be pretty easily a couple of ways. It's a pretty good practice to do with any ads anyway to better be able to ascertain your ROI with any ad campaign. You can can a specific landing page for different ad campaigns so you can easily see the amount of traffic, you can provide them with a link that goes through a script for counting hits, or you can append a unqiue identifer to your URL for each ad source. Just a few ways.

    You aren't being paranoid however with your concerns. In general, you should be mindful of PPCSE listings themselves and where the companies are allowing their feeds to be used. For pretty much all the PPCSE's there are situations where you could wind up paying on traffic you already have. How likely this is to happen is dependent in part on what particular kw your are targeting and where you are ranking in the PPCSE listings.

  16. #16
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    Hey folks, interesting discussion. Thought some may find this post on another forum interesting. It actually has a post from the object of mystery, ultsearch.com, themself.

    Note: I've actually had to attach a txt doc with the URL because it wasn't posting correctly. The URL has :: in it so ABW was interpreting it as smilies.

  17. #17
    I like traffic lights
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    Just to update this thread, Ultsearch just sold a quantity of domains (estimated around 100,000) to enhance.com's (ex ah-ha PPCSE) parent co for a cool $164.2 million dollars, $155.2 million of that in cold hard cash.

    Ka-ching.

    http://www.marchex.com/press.html#news14

    So time to stop whining about ultsearch now selling the domain you want and start whining at enhance.com instead. :^)

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Expired traffic domains run by major Adwhore operators....priceless. Maybe these wanks pushed ICAN to change their domain transfer policy to help these domain poachers grab even more esisting traffic domains. Lock your domains folks and forget the traffic peddler con-men and 2nd tier PPCSE's. Hell forget Adwords and Overture as 50% of their clicks are bogus on most keywords.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  19. #19
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I could never figure out how Ultimate Search made money.. but $162m is quite decent
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

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