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  1. #1
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    I want create toolbar for my shopping site (like google, altavista etc.), what you think about that? That can be problem for me? Here on forum I find that some merchants hate sites with toolbar, something about spyware, adware etc...
    I want use that toolbar without spyware, I don`t want change cookies on users pc...only links to my site in that toolbar!! That is ok or not, I must explain that to my merchants or not...?
    Also, can I use links from cj/sharesale in my toolbar?

    I don`t want problems and I ask this here because I know that you know

    again, sorry if my english bad (I must add this in my signature )

  2. #2
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Personally, I would love to have an ABestWeb toolbar, so I could pop right into PMs, or send Haiko a commish if I register a domain, he could include links to various resources, etc.

    As for creating your own, I dunno. I would think that content laden sites would have more luck gaining acceptance or widespread use.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    EC,

    I've been thinking about one.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Why not just put a "Free cookies ...All you can eat!" sign up on your site. Put a link on it to a trojan horse backdoor cookie stuffing tool. Then feed the duped idiot shoppers fresh batches of merchnat baked cookies every hour on the hour...they'll never know they're there. You'd be a network hero and get rich on affiliate marketing with a one page website hawking free cookies and for those on weight watchers just offer naked Britney screen savers with trojan attached.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  5. #5
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    @Charlie:

    better put the muzzle back on

  6. #6
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I want use that toolbar without spyware, I don`t want change cookies on users pc...only links to my site in that toolbar!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Personally I think it's a good idea. But figuring out how to code it could be a PITA, and these "custom toolbar makers" I've seen don't look too trustworthy...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> That is ok or not, I must explain that to my merchants or not...?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It'd still be a "software" means of promotion so I think you would have to declare it. And then try to convince the merchants that it's not parasitic.

    Since so many toolbars start out "clean" and then change for the worse, a lot of merchants would be rightfully leery of accepting it.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Why not just put a "Free cookies ...All you can eat!" sign up on your site. Put a link on it to a trojan horse backdoor cookie stuffing tool. Then feed the duped idiot shoppers fresh batches of merchnat baked cookies <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    D*mn Ecom, you're getting telepathic. Either that or you saw whatever post I did (one from a couple of days ago, forgot which one), that brought this image to mind. Just the other day I was imagining a page with a gif of a bunch of chocolate chip cookies...and a title of "CLICK HERE FOR FREE COOKIES!" You click, and you get some from all of my merchants. Then the screen changes and it says, "oh yeah...I meant computer cookies "

    Heck you even take it further by having the person get a new batch every hour, and by not cluing the person in that they really DID get their free cookies!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  7. #7
    Full Member ahmar's Avatar
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    Mike, please read this again:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x-man:
    I want use that toolbar without spyware, I don`t want change cookies on users pc...only links to my site in that toolbar!! That is ok or not, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I dont think he intend to do anything what you have mentioned. Otherwise he wouldnt ask, especially not here.
    <DT>[size=1][color=navy]"The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return.[/color][/size]<DT>[size=1][color=navy]It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale." Arthur C. Clark[/color][/size]</DT>

  8. #8
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    "I've been thinking about one."

    It might be good but, I think is not a good idea. Why?

    Well, let's see first how many ABW members are using the (proud.gif) on their site. I don't think that many will put a ABestWeb toolbar on their affiliates sites tampoco because they will not want their customers to wind-up here and see how we make our money.

    Maybe I am wrong about that but, I think I am right about not promoting ABW to all of our visitors, I think that it would hurt some sales.

    But again, what the hell do I know? Since I have not ever used a toolbar on any site, except when I was on AOL and I was forced to use theirs.

    I think I better hide now. First time I don't agree with Haiko

    Sal.
    ...

  9. #9
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sal,

    I meant a toolbar for members to easilly access portions of the site etc, not for consumers.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  10. #10
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Oh, now I feel better.
    ...

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    All I added in was the Adwhore, cookie stuffing mindset view as it progresses to the next step. Why fool with managing a BHO toolbar when you can just stuff cookies through a trojan horse backdoor directly onto a shoppers hard-drive. Only one getting hurt is fellow affiliates and the bilked merchants. The shopper doesn't care if a commission is earned or even know what a tracking cookie is...!

    Networks could give a hoot about commission thievery, unless they don't get their cut. Merchant AM's earn bonuses on sales regardless of wheither their obtained legitimately or not. Those unable, or too lazy to build out web pages promoting actual merchant offerings worthy of a shoppers click, get to play the game of cookie stuffing, SERP/PPCSE spamming and get to tag/bag a visitor who never return to their site under any circumstances.

    AM's here, and their silent brethern, know how the game is played. Entice and feed one group willing to spam the crap out of the serps while their hands appear clean ...like they do e-mail spammers. This move cuts off legit page heavy affiliates from their main traffic source....natural SERP listings. Then throw identical feeds at those who figure SERP panels are deserving of the setup time to automate mass exposure. Then turn a blind eye to the BHO incenters and rogues, like gator/180Solutions,who attack the interested shopper at the point of sale with double dipping bonuses.

    The networks and AM's have adopted the tricksters, spammers and point of sale attack dogs as their mainstream targets keeping the real merchants in the dark. Why not just cut through the smoke and mirrors and bad practices detection tools and stuff cookie batches through trojan horse backdoors. The ultimate goal of the advertising mindset of network management is to make sure every sale made by a merchant is cookied....right?

    The goal of every affiliate appears to be making money with automation tools eliminating work and ethics in the same move. Shoppers know about and hate popup alerts - they hate spammers - they hate being duped at the serps wasting their time, and they love seeing someone like DoubleClick taking it in the shorts. I think shoppers need another toolbar like they need another hole in their heads.

    Bombing my potential shoppers before they get to my site is a art form. Hijacking them from my pages is especially devious. Whacking them with forced cookie overwrites at the point of sale is inexcusable. None of my merchant clients deserve, nor desire, playing within the existing affiliate marketing arena if it offends their customers. Not a one goes to sleep at night worrying about double-dipping -SERP poisoning -brand dilution and paying a cent to undeserving affiliates adding nothing to the sales cycle. They do all agree my Safe Haven Sales network idea would work for them even if it exposes them to their true site's conversion ratios. They can't forcast paying the bills using duped eyeballs or crumbled/bogus cookies.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    x-man,

    Ignore Mike, he's not talking to you.

    Fred

  13. #13
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    but there's some truth in there somewhere

  14. #14
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    "They do all agree my Safe Haven Sales network idea would work for them"

    I do remember BLFH saying your Safe Haven Sales network idea was parasitic.

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    No way is any part of the concept parasitic. Unique part is the univeral cookie concept. One cookied referral works for 30 days to all merchants offerings within the network. Affiliate just chooses the initial merchnats landing page and the other Safe Haven competing merchants can be navigatedtoo with ability for the shopper to buy from each if they choose. Affiliate gets credit for all sales made by theiur referred shopper to all Safe haven merchants unless their cookie gets trumped by another S/H affiliate. Merchants with the best published conversion ratios get better exposure like it should be as they obviously offer more perceived value to the shopper. Those who can't compelte on price-product-service can exit at anytime to the mess at the other networks.

    Only problem is policing cookie stuffers as the temptation is even greater for rewarding the tricksters then the current cookie stuffing crap shoot at CJ BF Performics & LS. Not all affiliates applying can get an ID#. Not all those with an ID# will be able to keep theirs if a merchant complains of abuse. Over-all idea is to have affiliates spend time and effort building out meaningful natural SERP listing pages. No commissions paid on PPCSE redirects to the S/H merchants pages.

    Impossible for merchants to turn off sales reporting and no BHO can earn a dime from the S/H network sales ...they can only try and popup poach sales till they get a cease and desist court order to lay off the secure HTTPS links. Legal fees funded by merchants wanting a no BS sales network from the network's cut.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
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    BLFH:
    "I can't believe you said this one Mike. Ok, I can see where that policy could be an attraction for increasing your affiliate base, but you just turned your Safe Haven Network into a Network that is parasitic"


    http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&...=440109515&p=1

  17. #17
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    You can see from that thread the concept of a True sales network is over the head of those who think it's a rehash of existing failed networks. It isn't a peudo cleaned network model and I'll not offer the folks at SAS to copy or adopt it as if it was their idea. Their preferred merchant network was an exact copy of what I posted here. I'd trust Poon & Ms.B with the complete Safe Haven plan and internal workings as I'd expect them to profit from being key operational staff and founders.

    Timing is getting ripe as the existing network model is imploading on it's own greed and advertising mindset.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  18. #18
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    "advertising mindset"

    Maybe one day you'll learn that's what we do. It's what you do on your site. Advertise/market merchants to your site visitors.

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    AH your hung up on EcomCity.com as a model of a Safe Haven affiliates site. Only one page there inspired the concept. www.ecomcity.com/holdup.htm where a tired old page has without any SEO/SEM or PPCSE expense averaged 1 sale per 20 click throughs for over 2 years. This is near the average this merchant shows as their steady conversion ratio from all traffic sources.

    Where a Safe Haven Network affiliate can put on the advertising cap is to drive more traffic to their domain's showcase merchant page. Content, page structure, plus product example selection of landing pages on the actual merchant's site determines if this affiliate betters the merchant's average conversion ratio. The merchants conversion ratio is transparent so SFN affiliates can clearly see how they stack up against their SFN cookie competition. Some sites by theme will attract more targeted inspired buyers for certain SFN merchant's offerings. Surfing to another SHN merchant or product category acts as a Safe Haven "blue bird" sale. Less targeted from the affiliates showcase page, but it acts like a referral to Overstock's digital camera section ending up being an apparel sale.

    Advertising becomes simple if an affiliate can almost guarantee a PPCSE Ad buy to their own page via their known conversion ratio. Merchants will suffer on their existing networks exposure once the real value add affiliates see a Dell.com converts at 1/60 basis at SHN verses a 1/450 basis at Linkshare or BF. Tough crap as they should pay on fully tracked sales at their sites true conversion ratio. If their ratio sucks in comparison to competition ...they don't receive prime exposure.. or have to adopt better converting landing pages. Real world business plan where the SHN affiliate acts as the storefront window display artist.

    Key hidden SHN feature: The merchant would be a fool to compete in advertising with their SHN affiliate. If you knew why this is the truth you'd know how all the pieces fit together. Like I said before, the only hole or negative involves screening out the cookie stuffers and those not willing to build showcase pages to better their targeting.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  20. #20
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> without any SEO/SEM or PPCSE expense averaged 1 sale per 20 click throughs for over 2 years. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The "unstated" part is that without SEO or PPC it probably only GOT 20 clickthroughs in 2 years
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    That page gets about 15-20 clicks per day. Sure beats the click totals of the affiliate sales force who do average 1/20 on their own links. I review the server stats and the top few affiliates get 6-8 clicks per day and I don't ever whip them into more exposure. It's up to the merchant to convert even the small amount of clicks and suspenders aren't a sexy sales item. Notice no affiliate coded links on that page, except I rotate some apparel merchants at the bottom to see if they ever convert.

    I see just posting here makes the Adwhores buy PPCSE slots for their lame offerings. Notice who gets #1 on the natural search position...

    http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ens+suspenders

    See how EddieBower is too cheap to even buy any Holdups for resale, but their Adwhore SEO/SEM intern hawks the keywords to dupe shoppers. Click on their Adwords link and drain 40 cents from their account. They try to search their site for suspenders...


    You see how we all need a Safe Haven Network where the customer and the honest merchant rules the roost? Leader can eat some crow as parrot is way out of his/her budget.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  22. #22
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Leader can eat some crow as parrot is way out of his/her budget. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Actually both of those are way too cheap for my budget!

    Better yet, save the crow for Eddie Bauer, they can eat it right after they stop smoking the funny stuff. 40c/click for a nonexistant product?!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  23. #23
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Too funny as their program is probably run by some 3rd party AM firm passing gas and whacky weed. They must be reading this thread as they just upped their bid to #1 position. They must know suspender wearers are the rich power dressers of the business world. I love to see Amazon and Bizrate paying PPCSE those keyword terms loosing the suspender shopper in a bunch of wimpy belt Ads and cheapo Chinese made knock-offs.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador swampy_webber's Avatar
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    Mike will end up making all of the commsions and even being the best ABW toolbar user after he runs everyone else off. His rambling really is getting tired. Every once in the while, there is some realistic value to his posts but geez....

    This thread started with a fair, straight forward question I think and look what it turned into.


    PS - Leader, not sure why I hadn't read it before but I love your sig...
    Life is like a dogsled team. If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.

    -- Lewis Grizzard

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Swampy can't kill this thread. The darn toolbar is worthless if it shoots blank cookies. Be like having a M-16 shooting spitwads. Till you have merchants willing to have their sites converting targeted affiliate traffic better then a 1/100 ratio, no mass advertising dilution tool or trick can overcome their failings.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

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