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  1. #1
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Anything that detects and deletes viruses, stops obnoxious ads and halts nosy spyware and invasive cookies is a welcome thing to most PC users. However, to affiliate marketers — those e-commerce sites that display ads for vendors and collect commissions for leads — products such as Norton Security and McAfee Internet Security Suite are effectively reducing their sales. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Full article: Affiliate Marketers: Blocking Software is Killing Us

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
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    I did a web site for an advertising company, they do print design, brochures and such. SomethingSomethingAdvertising.com Well I looked at their web site on a computer with Norton Internet Security on it and none of their images were showing. I totally freaked, didn't know what the heck had happened to the web site. Finally figured out that Norton was blocking all their graphics because advertising was in the domain name. What the heck kind of *(&($#$ is that!

    Norton is killing more than affiliates! But do we blame Norton or the spammers that make people buy this type of software in the first place?

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Doug247's Avatar
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    That is what you call experts who didn't properly test their software. Or the did test it and had to meet a deadline and decide they were bigger than affiliate marketers and can screw us and get away with it. I can garantee the is norton would have effected something like banking or batch transaction done via the internet they would have fixed it in a matter of days.


    Don't cut off an arm because you need stiches in a finger.
    Thanks,
    Doug

  4. #4
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Ian,

    That's old news, I give up on complaining about that no-r-ton ad-blocker software since the beginning of this year, after I saw that no matter what, they will win at the end.

    Even CJ. was not able to nothing about it and not even with the new work around CJ did recently we are any much better, so we must try to concentrate on a way to deal with the host file instead and perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

  5. #5
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
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    Hey Mr. Sal,

    Good to see your posts again. I posted the piece not as a complain but to raise awareness. Doesn't it kind of remind you of throwing the baby out with the bath water?

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador mailman's Avatar
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    How do you explain the fact that adsense numbers keep going up? Do they have a way of bypassing Norton?

  7. #7
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    There is a deliberate over-hyping of the spyware issue by anti-spyware merchants in order to boost sales, either by labelling tracking cookies as spyware or sometimes by deliberately coming up with false positives for innocent applications.

    What's worse is that every so often the media picks up a press release from these vendors and recycles the hype verbatim.

    Check out this article from the BBC. It starts off by saying:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The US net provider EarthLink said it uncovered an average of 28 spyware programs on each PC scanned during the first three months of the year. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This is, of course, bollocks. Read closely and it becomes clear that this is actually just PR fluff for Webroot Software's Spy Sweeper product. And this isn't the only case.. these reports come out with the same misinformation over and over again.

    As long as the so-called-anti-spyware industry keeps over-hyping it's products, then we'll have this problem. As far as affiliates are concerned the "cure" they are peddling is as bad as the disease, and in fact this is true for many end users too.. they're just getting one BHO swapped for another and they *still* can't browse the web properly.

    The most intelligent way of ad blocking that I've seen is the Mozilla/Firefox AdBlock tool which makes it easy for people to block things that THEY choose, rather than the DEVELOPERS. I use it to block falkag.net banners because they've been trojanised in the past. Really, it's a content filter rather than an ad one.

    However.. that all being said, Ad Blocking software is not "killing" affiliate marketing any more than spyware is. It DOES have an impact and present some problems, and we DO need to educate software vendors, but the sky IS NOT FALLING on this one.
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador darkstar7's Avatar
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    If a person finds your site to be of value, they will turn off the ad blocking software. Otherwise, you wouldn't get them anyway. With increased bandwidth, I have found that the ad blocking software slow me down. Defeating one of its purposes.

    Tell them to turn it off helps too.
    Luke
    Have you promoted your brand name today?

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darkstar 7:
    If a person finds your site to be of value, they will turn off the ad blocking software. Otherwise, you wouldn't get them anyway. With increased bandwidth, I have found that the ad blocking software slow me down. Defeating one of its purposes.

    Tell them to turn it off helps too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Unfortunately, most users aren't all that savvy to turn the software off for certain sites. We get calls on a regular basis from people who can't see parts of our site; typically, we find they have some sort of ad blocking software and they didn't even know it.

  10. #10
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Moo I agree with you 200% on the over hyping by the removal vendors. From the reports like you quoted, to the sell tactics being used like false positive reports, to what all is actually being detected by some of the most 'respected' removal applications.

    Has anyone really looked at the log file after running Adaware? For registry entries, they will "detect" both the entry and the contents of the entry separately. That doubles the total detections right there on each registry entry by an application. Then I've seen the same entry reported multiple times, so that the total 'detections' are sometimes 4 or 6 times reported detections off one entry. I've also seen the same file and path directory reported mutliple times but labeled as different adware. Adaware also doesn't cluster all files associated with a particular application in their returns like S&D but lists each separately. I recently ran Adaware with something like 5 applications on my computer and only one cookie. It reported over 200 "problems" with the computer. Adaware isn't the only company doing this type of thing. It's becoming more and more common. Bottom line for them is that consumers seeing a significant problem on their computer upsells from the free versions to the paid versions.

    I'm also seeing applications 'detect' such things as bookmarks now.

    And let's not forget the large % of removal applications out there now which are owned by folks who have some type of adware application themselves.

    At the moment I am not having some of the major Networks cookies being set on my computer at all (even though the clicks track through the Network's servers and the cookie info is transmitted back to my computer). Although I have not been able to verify this yet, knowing what all is on that computer I strongly suspect that the culprit is a 'removal app' that was installed stealthly on my computer with the adware app I put there on purpose.

    And this is the really crazy and insane thing IMO. When you hear all the talk coming from places like the FTC and legislatures that the Industry needs to self-regulate so that the government doesn't and you question and probe deeper into what they are meaning in their minds regarding self-regulation, they are meaning sypware removal apps. To me this is just about as scary as what some of these apps are doing with our cookies. I have racked my brains and I can not for the life of me think of another case where some private Industry sector is called to be responsible for regulating another private Industry sector. That is just not how capitalism is supposed to work and just screams for conflict of interest and abuse to happen IMO. And to make it worse there are absolutely no guidelines whatsoever for these companies to follow in what they detect, label, remove or block.

  11. #11
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    After Thanksgiving I was down at my daughter's house on a construction project. She'd been telling me for a while that the "household use" computer was heavy with spyware. She wasn't kidding.

    Damn, this stuff is mean now. Neither spybot S&D nor adaware nor bhodemon nor spyware doctor would remove the one that was reloading the spyware on reboot and another one known as quickbrowser. I finally had to resort to hijackthis and nuke anything and everything I didn't recognize in the scan report --basically, I played Russian Roulette w/ the registry.

    related:
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/index.php?p=98

    I’ve just installed Kazaa-Skype, and I’ve got 2,509 adware files

  12. #12
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    While blocking may not be a killer I believe it is impacting us much more than most consider. My brother in law who has been online for ages and fairly knowledgable went to my site a while back and told me it sucked because of all the broken links.

    He was unaware of what was going on completely and he had all kinds of blocking in both the hosts file as well as by some of the apps he had running. I explained everything to him and he was shocked and a little pissed off. His statement was something I can't believe they do that and thats why I've had such a hard time with broken images everywhere I go.

    You can mask a link, you can change image names, sizes and even host them yourself to avoid blocking but you can not get around a host file block even doing all that!

    Think about the young generation and how many of those use kaza lite alone. Add in Norton, adaware and even spybot search and destroy all doing default level blocking at some level and this for sure aint no small issue!

  13. #13
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by happypoon:
    While blocking may not be a killer I believe it is impacting us much more than most consider.

    Think about the young generation and how many of those use kaza lite alone. Add in Norton, adaware and even spybot search and destroy all doing default level blocking at some level and this for sure aint no small issue! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    great post!! I totally agree!!
    Ebudae


  14. #14
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm also seeing applications 'detect' such things as bookmarks now. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh yeah... now *that's* annoying. I have the darned things bookmarked for a reason!

    Of course, if you can persuade them to install Firefox (that's a tracking link) then that will help with a lot of issues and it should KEEP their PC relatively free of crudware.. until they start to target Firefox of course
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Good question for the experts here would be how the multi-level blocking effects the TopMoxie's WhenU -Gators and other BHO scumbags running shopper system cookie stuffing routines. Cookie stuffers from their own domains are very successful at bypassing this as evidenced by Titanium award winners.

    Certainly with the fact that the huge majority of shoppers systems (90%+) have crapware installed shouldn't the networks be seeing a downturn in even forced click sales? Is anyone aware if the major networks, with BHO partnerships, have any special tracking in place for them beyond normal network/merchant cookies?

    One thing that is for sure the actual merchants's sites are selling more and more regardless if the affiliate or networks track sales. Only the networks know the actual tracked figures and who the majority of checks are being cut too. BHO silence even in the Adwhore media sites sould signal their happy as ticks sucking blood on show dogs.

    I'm a 100% legit affiliate using network provided links getting ever more impressions. Clicks can be whacked by merchant side clickstream data mining apps and shoehorned spyware by the actual network servers for side sale to DMA/IAB members or internal Ad-SEO/SEM operations. My own ecommerce clients are bulletproof to any screwing of traffic/click stats....none are on a network interface. Not a one shows decline in sales or click traffic patterns and conversion ratios over the last 2 years. Only within the public commission pool manipulation trade does the skulldurgery occur.

    We legit affiliates and all the honest merchant/AM's need to get a handle on this and create an elite Sales network immune to the tricks of the trade and those outsiders preying upon the pissed off shopping victims of the eyeball hijacking Adwhores. My Safe Haven Sales Network puts the shopper in the drivers seat. The affiliate/merchant relationship is protected as no Ad Blocker, Norton or Spyware/adware detect/removal tool can legally interfer with the ecommerce of SHN. The SHN merchnats can honestly post no spyware/adware or 3rd party loyality member alerts will ever apply to any purchases made from SHN referral links. Those shoppers will be in for a real treat. Not a one will get a drive-by crapware install or hidden bundle of spyware/adware from any SHN members site or destination. One violation reported and proven and their gone! No physical click from the actual affiliates pages negates their earning status.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  16. #16
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    Due to NDA that I signed Technically I am not suppose to say this. but I beta test norton products and they ask for recomendations and I will bring up the ad blocking feature and see if they do anything about it. If any of you want to get into Norton Beta testing. ET.Symantec.com

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador darkstar7's Avatar
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    I guess it can impact use a little more than I thought. I just turned on my Norton Ad Blocker and it wiped out every single affiliate link on my site with the exception of two new CJ links. I got links from 4 networks and it killed all 4 networks. Geez!!!

    But surfing the net this way. Reduces a lot of info.

    Luke
    Have you promoted your brand name today?

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