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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Okay, I have no idea what is going on and why two posts I have started are locked. I only come on here once a day and to find one gone and the other one locked is really confusing. I have no desire to continue any closed or locked threads, but when a moderator does so, there really should be a system in which they notify the person who started it why they did so.

    If this post http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tp...9&m=7801015711 was in regards to my thread, I'd SURE LIKE TO KNOW WHAT I SAID THAT CAUSED IT TO BE CLOSED!!! Because quiet frankly I thought it was a subject we could openly talk about here and the intitial comments I saw being posted were all good and even some some praise there for "you know whos" work on "you know what".

    So, if one of you moderators would kindly PM me and let me know what happened I would greatly appreciate it. I don't want details, just a simply explanation.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  2. #2
    Chick with Brains Tracy's Avatar
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    Wouldn't a simple solution be that when a moderator locks a thread, that he/she adds a final post briefly explaining the reason for the lock to avoid this confusion in the future?

  3. #3
    Affiliate Miester my2cents's Avatar
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    I think the answer to your question... is simple...

    A post was made about the idea being dropped...

    that was suppose to be the end of the discussion... (hence the tread being locked) but you and others refuse to move on...


    so each subsuquent tread has been lock when it is come upon by a moderator...

    YES, in theary this is a place to voice our views.. about things associated to affiliate marketing....

    However some here have real thin skin, some are easyly offended, others have no tolrence for issues being beaten to death... over and over (me)

    I believe this is the case here.. the issue is dead and some are still wanting to beat on this dead horse, hoping, I guess to keep it alive...

    this is silly as it's DEAD!

    TIME TO MOVE ON!!!!!!

    JOe
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    that's my2cents, 'cuz I'm a legend in my own mind....

  4. #4
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by my2cents:
    that was suppose to be the end of the discussion... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Judging by the number of people wanting to continue to make comments about it, I don't think it was the end of the discussion. I think it's probably better to let the discussion run its course, then lock it. (Of course that is Haiko's choice.) I think most people here missed the announcement and don't even realize TrueTracker.com is now officially dead. (I know I saw the first locked thread before I went searching for the announcement.)

    Considering the vested interest (not investment) that the affiliate community had in TrueTracker.com, I think it's certainly a relevant and on-topic discussion to have. I think there's a lot of "where can we go from here" discussions that could be productive.

    There are many "dead horse" threads here on ABW. They're relatively easy to just ignore.

    Locking down the thread stinks of heavy-handed moderation to me. (And that's certainly within Haiko's rights--it's his board.) There's nothing off-topic about the discussion--just some potential embarassment about Haiko's failed venture. Personally, I don't think there's any reason to be embarassed. He tried, he invested a considerable amount of time and money in it, and it was more involved than he expected. Some of us have made similar mistakes. Those who haven't should go make similar mistakes themselves--there's much to learn from mistakes.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  5. #5
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    I agree that Haiko has nothing to be embarrassed about, and he doesn’t deserve any grief over his issue either. I wouldn’t even call it a failure. He had an idea, and he tried to do something about it. The only way he could have failed is if he just kept the idea to himself and forgotten about it. This whole thing reminds me of what Thomas Edison said when asked how he felt about “failing” 10000 times before finally inventing the light bulb. Edison replied, “I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.” Haiko tried to do something big, huge really. Some of the posts I read in one of the locked threads I found looked like some people were giving him grief over this whole thing. He doesn’t deserve that. He tried to do something. Something, bigger than I’ve ever tried to do. And I think he should be applauded, if for nothing else than for taking a chance.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Well, before this gets locked down...I want to clarify (and this has nothing to do with Haiko’s affiliate program, but with the way this has all been handled).

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think most people here missed the announcement <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is exactly why I posted something! Haiko posted it in an obscure place and I even missed it until someone here sent me the link. I thought it should have been where everyone could have seen it and I neither said or implied anything negative in my post, only that I was sad it did not ever come to be. I even said it had lots of potential! I have a dozen web sites that have potential and failed...and I would have done them all over again to get where I am today. This was not about failure as so many people are quick to try to point out.

    In retrospect I just whish Haiko had posted it in a locked thread somewhere more obvious in a post where no one could have responded. A broadcast email, like he does for so many commercial programs, would have been better.

    There are very few times I'm sorry I log on here and post something, but this certainly has been on of them!!!
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The TT announcement should not dampen ABW's quest for some relief from the current abuses of the existing Network model. Trying to revamp the major networks with some magic wand to secure a base plan that breeds trust, level playing fields, assured prompt payments and value-add to shoppers and merchants has been an effort in feutility. Think ...herding cats!

    Watching the affiliates over the years reminds me of the old time Jr High "slaughter ball games" with the referee being a drunk network guy with a whistle. All the neuances of emerging as a winner in those games apply here. Even to the point of the casual onlookers getting whacked with errant thrown balls.

    Only formula for introducing a new network model has to start with finding a core value to build upon. Just like a snow man's base that core is rolled picking up mass to build a foundation the other parts can rely upon. Think of affiliates as resorceful taxi drivers without fare meters in their taxis. They only get paid for their transportation efforts based upon commission kickbacks from destination shop owners where passangers actual bought something.

    Core of any new network idea can only be built upon exposing the merchant site's real conversion ratio to targeted referral traffic. All else will have no differentiating pull to entice high quality established affiliates transporting shopper traffic. The existing network model works well for the Mass transit Bus drivers picking up even the broke homeless and plopping them at various route stops playing a numbers game. It doesn't work well for the small taxi driver, unless the shop/Department store owner has a private entrance with VIP treatment for the shoppers arriving by personal transport.

    Key elements:

    Taxi driver must have a reasonable choice of destinations to drop off his focused shopper. If he/she knows upfront that merchant historically converts better then his competition then he can get more consistant commission kickbacks from that destination. Heck...the taxi driver can choose to transport only those interested in a specific product category, knowing up front the drop off point has the very best deals for them. It sure would be nice if the taxi driver carries shoppers to a Mall type destination know to convert better then other Mall sites due to quality of merchant offering there.

    The taxi has to trust the merchant(s) will record and pay 100% of all dropped off shoppers purchases.

    Merchant destination must not consistantly divert, or allow 3rd parties to entice the taxi's shoppers to non-commissionable sales.

    Merchants must be guaranteed these VIP drop off shoppers weren't duped into arriving at the private back door entrance by some fleet taxi drivers playing the mass transit front door game. No way should they expect this special focused shopping group NOT be more inclined to buy then their general traffic.

    Taxied shoppers should always be able to see and flag down a ride from these sales destination drivers rather then wait at Mass transit points.

    All taxi drivers must be approved and licenced to use the private drop off entrances. They know they have to protect that license or just revert back to the mass Transit Bus driver job on the crowded WWW Highway full of road rage drivers.

    All merchnats can choose to put in a private VIP entrance if they wish to cater to targeted shoppers more inclined to purchase. The draw back is those sales rung up cannot go unreported. They also cannot hide their conversion ratio from that of their competitors trying to fool the taxi drivers into dropping off more store foot traffic.

    This is the Safe Haven Sales Network concept with the only weak spot being the procedure for licensing and monitoring the taxi drivers. SHN will have it's hands full trying to protect the merchants from Mass transit bus driver tricksters trying to stuff passangers through the VIP entrance posing as legit taxi drivers.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  8. #8
    Internet Cowboy
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    For a community that was created to voice concerns and opinions, it sure does seem that a few people who do not want to discuss certain topics are awful quick to flex their powers to lock or remove threads, even if the majority of the community seems to want to discuss the issues.
    ABW seems to be taking on the feel of a dictatorial state and not at all holding true to its original intent.
    One day we get a long, sad message that someone is not going to be in business anymore and is relinquishing their moderator powers, the next day this person is flying around locking threads nilly willy.
    Is this all about who has power and their ability to demonstrate this power?
    This place is more of a soap opera than anything else.


  9. #9
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    @Ron: The issue was not the point of view you expressed in your post. As I stated in the post you linked to here, threads started to continue a discussion of a locked thread are not allowed on the boards. It's a pure TOS issue, although I never felt you were trying to intentionally violate the boards TOS. I could have done a couple of things with the thread. I could have locked it like I did the other one, deleted it, or moved it to moderation queue (which is what I did). I made the choice to move it to moderation queue for review by Haiko when he gets a chance not because of what you expressed in your post but because where the thread was heading by subsequent posters (which were turning to things not even related to TT). I would not be surprised if one of the reasons Haiko locked the announcement post was because of the very good potential for the thread turning into what the one your started was turning into Haiko. Haiko has always been open to accepting constructive criticism by members. The thread was turning into something that was not constructive nor productive.

    To respond to some other points made here. I don't see anything to necessarily indicate that Haiko locking the original announcement has anything to do with any embarrassment on his part. Additionally as I stated in my post linked to by Ron here, the moderation that has been done is to reflect both the boards rules and what I interpreted Haiko's intentions to be when he locked the original announcement. As Administrator of this board that is his right. I try to perform moderation to reflect the rules he has set and what I feel are his wishes for how he wants his boards to run. I may not get it right all the time, but it's what I try to do.

    Another reminder that I also mentioned in my post attempting to explain about the locked and moved threads (tried to hint at it nicely)....starting threads about moderation activities is also a TOS violation. The appropriate "system" is to bring up the issue to Haiko directly via email or pm or the moderator privately if you just have questions about what happened.

    I will also respond to your PM Ron that you sent me I guess about the time you started this thread.

  10. #10
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NewcastleB:
    I agree that Haiko has nothing to be embarrassed about, and he doesn’t deserve any grief over his issue either.

    Some of the posts I read in one of the locked threads I found looked like some people were giving him grief over this whole thing. He doesn’t deserve that. He tried to do something. Something, bigger than I’ve ever tried to do. And I think he should be applauded, if for nothing else than for taking a chance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree, and great post btw.

    And I would like to add - it was Haiko's business venture and he is not obligated to anyone here to either explain himself or have his personal business discussed. (and even though Haiko was the person, it was still a private venture)

    Yes, this is a message board - but that does not give anyone here the right to pick apart a person's personal choices in their business dealings if they choose not to have it.

    It would be like picking any person here and having a long thread about the merits and failures of said person's private business. If they choose not to have their private dealings discussed - then that is their choice.
    Ebudae


  11. #11
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scohaz:
    Is this all about who has power and their ability to demonstrate this power?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, it's about the right to privacy in personal business.
    Ebudae


  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Kellie,

    Thanks for the feedback here and your PM's. I responded back and I think we now see both sides of the picture.

    Sorry to have stirred up such a hornets nest. Not my intention.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

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