Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 55
  1. #1
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 5th, 2005
    Location
    Park City Utah
    Posts
    16,646
    Paulson Management Group Poaching on other OPM's Merchants
    There has been an internal discussion since February about reoccurring complaints from OPM's active here about Paulson Management Group contacting their clients (merchants). This is considered highly unethical particularly since the OPM's have clearly displayed their names on the program descriptions in the networks. Its against policy to move private discussions public so I am starting this thread to give those effected the opportunity to post examples publicly.

    Collectively we are asking Heather Paulson to personally stop this tactic as there are ample opportunity with over 10k programs available.

  2. Thanks From:

  3. #2
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 24th, 2005
    Posts
    6,918
    Thanks Chuck for posting this.

    As an affiliate my company has the choice of which merchants and their representatives to work with.

    My Company will be reviewing our programs that are represented by PMG (Paulson Management Group). We will attempt to contact the merchant directly and explain that we will no longer work with an unethical OPM. If we are unable to contact the merchant directly because PMG is the only contact, then we will just outright drop them.

    Thanks again for wanting to improve our industry.
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  4. #3
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,492
    Even before these events came to light, this management company showed their ineptitude by making up BS excuses/stories whenever concerns were brought up about problems that made it difficult or impossible for affiliates to promote their clients' programs effectively. There was never any concern or willingness to work on fixing problems; they have always given the distinct impression that they only feign the minimum possible effort necessary to generate a billable for management fees.
    Last edited by davidh; June 9th, 2011 at 02:51 AM.
    CUSTOM BANNERS by GRAPHICS CANDY ~ Banner Sets and Website Graphics ~ Professional design, reasonable rates
    DESIGNER DOG CHECKS ~ We double-dog dare ya to write one!

  5. Thanks From:

  6. #4
    ABW Ambassador SunshineTricia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 7th, 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    896
    I'm all about competition and the free market. However, what bothered me most about this was the chain of exchanges that I saw between PMG and the affected OPMs. It's one thing to say "We're competing for business and if you don't like our model, that's your problem." It's something else to get called out for what you are doing and repeatedly respond essentially "Woops. My bad. Didn't know you were managing that program." When you see emails posted from MULTIPLE respected OPMs that are almost identical, you start to suspect that it could not have been unintentional.
    --Tricia Meyer-- I love being the exception to the rule.

    Tricia Meyer | Helping Moms Connect | Wine Club Reviews and Ratings | Hunger Games Fan


  7. #5
    http and a telephoto
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,708
    Quote Originally Posted by helpingmoms View Post
    I'm all about competition and the free market. However, what bothered me most about this was the chain of exchanges that I saw between PMG and the affected OPMs. It's one thing to say "We're competing for business and if you don't like our model, that's your problem." It's something else to get called out for what you are doing and repeatedly respond essentially "Woops. My bad. Didn't know you were managing that program." When you see emails posted from MULTIPLE respected OPMs that are almost identical, you start to suspect that it could not have been unintentional.
    This is exactly what is the worst part about what PMG is doing. I get the affiliate contact emails from the merchants we manage and they sent emails direct to @teamloxly.com email addresses. That is a clear sign that they know it is a managed program. Other OPMs (Outsourced program managers) received the same emails to their clients.

    What Paulson Management Group is doing is not being competitive, they are outright lying to a group of their peers. If they are doing that, what are they doing to the merchants they manage and the affiliates in their programs?

    davidh's points are also very valid.

    Our industry is young and the "bad" players will be ousted. Those that work hard and band together with their peers for the betterment of the industry will be the ones still in business 5 years from now. (No, I don't mean start an industry organization, but I mean that some people are informally working together even though they are competitors because it is better for us all.)

    It's all about education, PMG is beyond educating, but their merchants can be educated (not poached!) to industry best practices and will be able to make their decisions based on what they learn from other educational initiatives.

    Since I no longer have forums here, I won't be able to make any announcements about the education initiatives, but believe me we will be getting the word out. Other OPMs here may be able to discuss their involvement as the project evolves.

    Geno and Greg have both been pioneers in writing books for Affiliate Managers and merchants, AC Certified has it's place but with the plethora of clueless merchants that end up in the hand of OPMs like Paulson Management Group it is obvious that the *merchants* need education in the process of deciding where and how to set up their programs and how those programs should be managed, in-house or with consulting or with an OPM.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  8. Thanks From:

  9. #6
    ABW Ambassador I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    February 19th, 2011
    Location
    Rootstown, OH
    Posts
    1,096
    Has PMG made any public statements on this behavior for reference? While it appears clear this behavior is well supported by those affected, reading more from the other side straight from the source would be interesting and educational for everyone.

    Helpingmoms mentioned the common response is "Woops. My bad. Didn't know you were managing that program." What other responses have people received from them?

    What would be PMG's motivations? Short term gains? Or is it lack of understanding for how the industry works and the long term outlook for unethical practices?
    Matt Bidinger
    Online Community Engagement

  10. Thanks From:

  11. #7
    http and a telephoto
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,708
    Quote Originally Posted by I.M.O.G. View Post
    Has PMG made any public statements on this behavior for reference? While it appears clear this behavior is well supported by those affected, reading more from the other side straight from the source would be interesting and educational for everyone.

    Helpingmoms mentioned the common response is "Woops. My bad. Didn't know you were managing that program." What other responses have people received from them?
    That's pretty much what they are saying to all of us.
    What would be PMG's motivations? Short term gains? Or is it lack of understanding for how the industry works and the long term outlook for unethical practices?
    Lack of understanding and not knowing what is considered ethical behavior. Poaching I am not worried about, my clients are my clients and won't move to another OPM unless they confer with me (with one notable exception in the past year but we were dropping the client anyway). forgot to add: What is worrisome here is the blatant lying and lack of regard for merchant's existing relationships with Managers and OPMs. That is the part that is unethical.

    The merchants that PMG is able to poach will then be poachable again because they have no loyalty and their current managers aren't doing their jobs. It is worth noting that each of the OPMs whose clients were targeted are not losing those clients to PMG or any other OPM.

    It is common practice among many OPMs to check with others after reviewing the history of a company that comes to them for management. Personally we haven't ever "recruited" a merchant. We get ours by personal referrals. When a merchant approaches us we ask them point blank if they have been managed previously, buy who and why they ended the agreement. Then we contact the prior manager to find out their side of the story and many times don't take on that merchant. We did a couple of times in the past and truthfully, a merchant that does a lot of "manager hopping" probably isn't a good merchant to work with.
    Last edited by loxly; June 10th, 2011 at 09:17 PM.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  12. Thanks From:

  13. #8
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,492
    Lack of understanding and not knowing what is considered ethical behavior.
    I wouldn't give nearly that much credit for blind ignorance on their part. IMO it's simply a matter of character defect.
    CUSTOM BANNERS by GRAPHICS CANDY ~ Banner Sets and Website Graphics ~ Professional design, reasonable rates
    DESIGNER DOG CHECKS ~ We double-dog dare ya to write one!

  14. Thanks From:

  15. #9
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 20th, 2005
    Posts
    8,266
    OK, so I just wrote a "Devil's advocate" type post concerning this issue. But I'm not sure whether to post here or in a similar thread in the Inner Circle. With a couple of Inner Circle threads now being made public I suppose it should be out here "in the open." Maybe everything should be out here.

    Wadda ya tink?
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

  16. #10
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    jacked by sylon www.sylonddos.weebly.com
    Posts
    9,618
    In public.

    Vietnam Veteran 1966-1970 USASA
    ABW Forum Rules - Advertise At ABW

  17. #11
    Full Member Lanny's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 7th, 2010
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    330
    PMG Private offers on LS, previous thread on ABW
    @Chuck Thank you, for the "heads up". As I recall, earlier this year, or, late in 2010, I received several Private Offers, on LinkShare, where the programs were "Professionally Managed by Paulson Management Group".

    Professionally managed?

    I was not interested and declined each of them. Also, I believe there is at least one previous thread on ABW that I'd read, about PMG. I will avoid PMG, like the plague.

  18. #12
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,420
    "Has PMG made any public statements on this behavior for reference? While it appears clear this behavior is well supported by those affected, reading more from the other side straight from the source would be interesting and educational for everyone."

    THEY ARE READING THIS RIGHT NOW

  19. #13
    Outsourced Program Manager
    Join Date
    November 12th, 2007
    Location
    Boulder Colorado
    Posts
    513
    Hello,

    “If one of your clients received an email from PMG please email it to me directly so our tech team can verify the email header to ENSURE that it actually came from us and not from a competitor attempting to discredit us.” PMG does not have a business development team, most of our clients come to us via referral, Google search, or directly so I am really interested in seeing these email headers. PMG team members KNOW BETTER then to attempt to reach out to a merchant who is currently under a legally binding contract with another agency. PMG will swiftly deal with any internal emails that were sent out by employees with termination if it is found that this has occurred.

    Chuck and Loxly slandering us in a public forum is not due diligence and a blatant attempt at discrediting us by you, our competitors. I have been in this industry for over 10 years, you have my phone number and email why not call or reach out to me if this is truly an issue. Your posting here shows me your true intentions. Chuck and Loxly; you should have had the professional decorum to call me and show me the emails rather then attempt to slander PMG on a public forum.

    PMG had to develop our own affiliate forum after it was found out that Loxly was going into our PRIVATE ABW forum and re-posting deleted posts to slander us and our clients in the open forum. We contacted ABW and they graciously allowed us to close down our ABW forum as it was jeopardized by Loxly. This is highly unethical behavior and a blatant disregard for professional decorum.

    Affiliates know we love this industry, we are part of its growth and we truly care about affiliates making a living from affiliate marketing. We also respect competitors and their client contracts.

    Have a great weekend,

  20. #14
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    The Swamp
    Posts
    7,503
    libel = written or printed word
    slander = spoken

    at least know the difference if you're going to make the accusation.

    And it's not libelous if it's true.
    Last edited by Kellie aka Ms. B; June 12th, 2011 at 07:12 PM.

  21. Thanks From:

  22. #15
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    666
    I've no idea as to the truth of the allegations thrown around here against PMG, but true or not, it would seem a conflict of interest for an OPM who is/was a moderator to be able to access and manipulate another OPM's forum?

    If I am understanding this incorrectly, please explain, or bawl me out, or whatever...

  23. #16
    http and a telephoto
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,708
    One thing I have noticed is that the other OPMs in a private side of ABW are not stepping up to the plate here.

    Team Loxly is not a competitor of PMG. We do not take on the same types of clients they manage. I am working with a collaboration of ethical OPMs to make merchants smarter and to help them make good choices of management and OPM firms to work with. Team Loxly also isn't actively recruiting merchants, so your allegations we are making this up are unfounded.

    RE: The PMG Forem. Heather, please admit that your forum was already built and populated with all its subforums BEFORE I moved a post from your forum to the public. You had an affiliate go into your ABW *public* (your forum was not private) forum and post they were not satisfied with a client they thought was still managed by PMG. You closed the thread stating you were no longer involved with the client.

    *I* moved the thread to the CJ subforum and reopened it because since you no longer managed the client the thread didn't need to be in your PMG ABW forum but the issues still needed to be addressed.

    You then used that as an excuse to make a huge exodus from ABW to your forum *which was already set up and ready to go at least a week before* you huffed off ABW claiming that a moderator (me) was using their "power" to harm you.

    In no way did moving that thread harm you. Look at the moderators. Chuck is an OPM, at the time I was an OPM moderator, Bill was a merchant moderator. Because of Heather's unfounded accusations, 3 of the main moderators at ABW were going to not be able to even remove obvious spam or *moderate at all in the sponsored forums*. You can ask all the moderators how much spam is removed from ALL forums, sponsored or not at all time of the day or night.

    For a variety of reasons *not related to the PMG debacle* I decided to step down as a moderator at ABestWeb and start communicating with my affiliates elsewhere.

    Heather, when you saw me at ASW11 you didn't even know who I was, you said "you take great pictures". So loxly = Deborah Carney = professional photographer = not your competition.

    I will go on record as stating that I *never* moderated a post or thread to advance my company or my personal views at ABestWeb. Anyone that believes I have can show me what they mean and I will tell you exactly the reasons moderation took place.

    I answered the email sent by Joel and he replied and didn't even use my correct name. Are you going to tell us that Joel doesn't work for you? That this isn't his email address? Joel Wood <joelwood@paulsonmanagementgroup.com> - the same email address he used to email several other OPM managed programs with?

    I'll take you on in public because I have nothing to lose. Your company can't poach my clients as I stated above. People have different views on what is ethical and what isn't and it is obvious that we see things differently.

    You ran to your own forum, that was set up before you left ABW, because at ABW you aren't in total control of the conversation. I imagine you are emailing iNet right now to ask for this thread to be removed. I already don't spend much time here, but if this thread is removed I will never come back.

    For some people they won't care. Those are the people that need as much education about our industry as you do.

    If Joel Wood doesn't work for you, then I stand corrected. However I am not the only OPM that was affected and I am disappointed the other OPMs won't come out here and address this also.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com


  24. #17
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 24th, 2005
    Posts
    6,918
    Quote Originally Posted by loxly View Post
    I am disappointed the other OPMs won't come out here and address this also.
    It IS Sunday...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  25. #18
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,492
    Though this particular issue is a slight diversion from the thread topic itself, it is still relevant to the subject at hand.

    One time I posted concerns here about a very serious problem with one of PMG's clients' datafeeds. Heather responded with a line of PURE BULLSHIT. When I called her bluff, she deleted my posts. Instead of concern for the well-being and performance of her client's program, her solution to the problem was to sweep the issue under the carpet instead of working with her client to fix the problem.

    That particular client's affiliate program has since been shut down, because it did not work out for them.
    Last edited by davidh; June 12th, 2011 at 08:44 PM.
    CUSTOM BANNERS by GRAPHICS CANDY ~ Banner Sets and Website Graphics ~ Professional design, reasonable rates
    DESIGNER DOG CHECKS ~ We double-dog dare ya to write one!

  26. #19
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Location
    Tropical Mountaintop
    Posts
    5,636
    @ Loxly: I expect you will see other OPMs posting here regarding this, they are normally kind of scarce on weekends. The statements about spam in all forums, public and private at all hours of the day and night I can attest to as true and we do not leave it there awaiting private moderation. If someone posted about a program that was no longer managed by PMG the right thing to do would have been to inform the person that PMG was no longer managing the client, not delete to post, IMHO; that shows a disregard of the member's concerns.

    Sometime this evening I expect to see someone posting here who has first hand knowledge regarding statements made here but I can't check any past moderation in the forum under discussion because it is not here.

  27. #20
    http and a telephoto
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,708
    http://www.abestweb.com/forums/commi...cj-137361.html

    This is the thread that I moved from the PMG forum to the CJ forum.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  28. #21
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 22nd, 2007
    Location
    West Covina, CA
    Posts
    8,443
    So I started all this?

    Shoulda kept my dawg mouth shut.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  29. #22
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,492
    You ain't nothin' but a hound dawg
    CUSTOM BANNERS by GRAPHICS CANDY ~ Banner Sets and Website Graphics ~ Professional design, reasonable rates
    DESIGNER DOG CHECKS ~ We double-dog dare ya to write one!

  30. #23
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 22nd, 2007
    Location
    West Covina, CA
    Posts
    8,443
    So I've heard.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  31. #24
    ABW Ambassador writerguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    3,248
    ... you ain't never caught a rabbit ...
    Generate more fake news.

  32. #25
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 22nd, 2007
    Location
    West Covina, CA
    Posts
    8,443
    "...
    "When they said you was high classed, well that was just a lie."

    _______

    Edit to add: I apologize for diverting what was a serious discussion.
    Last edited by Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound; June 12th, 2011 at 10:53 PM.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Merchants: Affiliate Tag Group Management 2.0
    By GravityFed in forum AvantLink -AV
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 23rd, 2014, 01:18 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •