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  1. #1
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    Loxly Split Off
    Quote Originally Posted by I.M.O.G. View Post

    - Advocates ethical behavior and best practices in affiliate marketing.
    - To help affiliates learn and earn more.
    - Educates on best practices and act as an industry champion.
    - Fostering discussion, interaction, relationships in the affiliate marketing industry
    That isn't where ABW is headed under the new administration. I would prefer you put an iNet employee into the admin position.

    Yeah I said it. The new person in charge does NONE of the above. He is the least qualified person to run a forum, let alone ABW.

    Yeah I know this will be edited or deleted, but at least everyone here knows where I stand. And saying I have a competing forum is BS because ABW still had it's place and it has now lost that credibility.
    Deborah Carney
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  2. #2
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Loxly no one is going to remove your post, you are free to speak your mind. I split this thread into its own discussion.

    Yeah I said it. The new person in charge does NONE of the above. He is the least qualified person to run a forum, let alone ABW.
    That's the pot calling the kettle black!

    And saying I have a competing forum is BS because ABW still had it's place and it has now lost that credibility
    You chose to take over as admin of a competing forum while still a moderator here. Micheal protected you and kept anyone from speaking out about you. Well there is a new sheriff in town and you are going to have to defend yourself. Call me whatever you want!

  3. #3
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    Loxly no one is going to remove your post, you are free to speak your mind.
    But you'll block her IP so she can't access the forum any more.

    We're back to the old days of ABW old boy's thuggery.
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  4. #4
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    But you'll block her IP so she can't access the forum any more.
    Not blocking her IP

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly View Post
    That isn't where ABW is headed under the new administration. I would prefer you put an iNet employee into the admin position.

    Yeah I said it. The new person in charge does NONE of the above. He is the least qualified person to run a forum, let alone ABW.

    Yeah I know this will be edited or deleted, but at least everyone here knows where I stand. And saying I have a competing forum is BS because ABW still had it's place and it has now lost that credibility.
    Loxly in fairness. Right after this announcement you were on Twitter trying to get people over.

    I like you but also have to point out, in this thread you had one of those I'm out of here type of posts, which you've done before. In fact, the last time, Michael was admin. Why did you have one of those when Michael was in charge? What is the point of todays?

    I also saw Bill post something before he edited it. Which leads to another question for both of you. You both were mods when Michael took over. You both stopped being mods when Michael was in charge. You both had forums here when Michael took over. You both didn't renew those forums when Michael was still in charge.

    If somebody has a forum here and when it comes time to renew, if they truly felt ABW was bringing them value, do they:

    renew
    don't renew

    You guys didn't.

    I just don't understand the post today when you haven't exactly been active lately, shutting down your forums, having an I'm leaving post, I'm tired of ABW posts and tweets, all when Michael was in charge. Goodbye Loxly thread and everything - http://www.abestweb.com/forums/abest...ly-141456.html
    Last edited by Trust; June 29th, 2011 at 07:27 PM.

  6. #6
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    My IP is blocked. From my computer and Vinny's. I am posting this from a broadband card connection so I can say my last piece and be gone.

    First of all this thread should not split off of the original thread.

    I have personal knowledge of other posts being removed from that thread.

    Chuck, please show us where you do any of those 4 points above. Even just one. Show us your website where you educate affiliates, show us where you foster conversation.

    I'm not going to get into mudslinging but the ethical practices part has some holes in it as well.

    As a moderator how many people have you banned, how many discussions on best practices have you started, where are the posts or the materials out there that show that you are a person that has the skills and personality required to run a forum.

    For the record, and I have posted this elsewhere, I resigned as a moderator weeks before it was announced here. I did not start a competing forum. The rules at the forum I admin don't allow bashing of merchants, which is something people come to ABW to do. We have a totally different set of rules and although we may share some members, our members come from elsewhere. I have never recruited here or posted that other link here, because it would be rude and inconsiderate to do so.

    The treatment I received from iNet personnel at ASW11 was not appreciated either. But I kept this all to myself because I thought ABW could pull through.

    Chuck you prefer to attack me behind closed doors, and now like the Heather situation I want people here to know what they are getting. Like in the movie Ocean's Eleven, you of all people should know that there is always someone watching.

    ABW was a place where I learned the business, learned who to watch out for and learned who to listen too. Haiko at one time was one of the few people that kept me afloat after Chris died.

    I want what is best for ABW. I want an admin that if it isn't Michael that is an impartial person that can bring in real new blood and new ideas. Chuck, I know some of your "ideas" for ABW you made those clear at an in person meeting. they don't' resonate with the true purpose of ABW.

    Good luck to you and to iNet because ABW is now not what it was and isn't going to be what it was and it isn't going to be a place I want to be.

    When is the other news going to break? Or you going to overlook what you lost today?

    Chuck, I will not engage further since someone decided to IP ban *2* members by blocking my IP adddress.

    iNet, I hope you will reconsider and choose from within for an appropriate person to run ABW.

    I can back every statement I make with fact.

    You both stopped being mods when Michael was in charge. You both had forums here when Michael took over. You both didn't renew those forums when Michael was still in charge.
    I stopped being a mod because of the backstabbing in the mod corner and the politics that were bad for my health and bad for the board. I was tired of the first thiing in the morning and the last thing at night I was banning bots from China, India and Taiwan and other places. I spent more time banning and deleting that I did posting because I no longer had time to post. I didn't renew my forums because one was seen as competition for initiatives that iNet is supposed to be starting and because I was not longer seeing engagement and ROI from my OPM forum presence here.

    Why did I come back to post today? Because ABW is becoming a platform for clueless people and turning them into perceived "authorities". I can't stand by and listen to all the people that contacted ME today and all the hush hush we can't come out and say what we need to about Chuck. This is in no way a personal attack on Chuck, this is a "people do your homework" before you blindly follow a supposed new path.

    And with that, I'm logging out. Do NOT send me PMs, I will not log back in to read them, if anyone wants to reach me my Skype is affiliateabcs and my email is affiliates at teamloxly.com

    Now I am going back to work to launch a program that I actually had considered purchasing an announcement for.
    Last edited by loxly; June 29th, 2011 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Answering TRust
    Deborah Carney
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  8. #7
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    My IP is blocked. From my computer and Vinny's. I am posting this from a broadband card connection so I can say my last piece and be gone.

    First of all this thread should not split off of the original thread.

    I have personal knowledge of other posts being removed from that thread.
    Your IP was not banned by me or iNet.
    This thread was split as I expected the drama and this is focused on you and me.
    There have not been any posts split from that thread, I get instant email notifications, will see it and have not received any.

    Chuck, please show us where you do any of those 4 points above. Even just one. Show us your website where you educate affiliates, show us where you foster conversation.
    I have a long history on ABW of standing up for affiliates, educating affiliates/merchants, leading ethical conversations. Have lead no less than three Affiliate Summit panels dealing with ethical affiliate marketing.

  9. #8
    ABW Ambassador I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
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    Deborah, this is the list of banned IPs. None of them match the IP of the post that started this thread (your account also lists hundreds of IPs, so it would be very difficult to effectively IP ban you if we wished to do so):
    Code:
    202.133.61.81
    117.242.28.*
    115.248.180.17
    115.252.40.104
    76.204.159.230
    174.132.178.37
    195.191.54.46
    195.191.54.82
    69.123.83.22
    188.115.129.84
    109.230.220.244
    208.43.81.144
    109.230.246.24
    89.28.75.142
    93.81.112.140
    2.94.118.223
    58.225.75.147
    173.234.*
    173.208.*
    69.147.*
    184.82.*
    98.244.17.118
    92.19.102.192
    109.230.246.*
    109.230.220.*
    109.230.213.*
    109.230.251.*
    109.230.217.*
    109.230.221.*
    109.230.222.*
    109.230.216.*
    109.230.223.*
    109.230.244.*
    122.168.196.18
    94.45.33.18
    There also haven't been any other posts removed from the announcement thread, other than Bill, who had posted something then removed it on his own. His post is still there right now, just with his self edit.

    In all fairness, there are those who have disagreed with the change. Most have them expressed their sentiment privately. No one has had their posts removed from the announcement thread by any moderator, admin, or iNet staff. Let's stick to the facts.

    EDIT: FYI, the only people with access to do IP bans are those with admin rights (the setting is in vbulletin options>user banning options, which requires admin access to view). That means Chuck and I. Just to clarify since the claim was made - its either a bluff, or loxly had a legitimate issue which had nothing to do with being IP banned or anyone restricting her access.
    Last edited by I.M.O.G.; June 29th, 2011 at 07:57 PM.
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  10. #9
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    "Why did I come back to post today? Because ABW is becoming a platform for clueless people and turning them into perceived "authorities". I can't stand by and listen to all the people that contacted ME today and all the hush hush we can't come out and say what we need to about Chuck. This is in no way a personal attack on Chuck, this is a "people do your homework" before you blindly follow a supposed new path."

    Yes, but again, you haven't exactly been active here lately when Michael was admin. If you truly felt that, you would be here educating. And if the new path is more openness, it's a good path.

    The reality is INET decided to make Chuck admin. They're not going to turn around and change that tomorrow because you don't like it. Not everybody is going to like whoever is admin, that's normal. They'll give him some time and if it doesn't work out, then they'll make another change.

    A lot of times you say you don't like the fighting and this and that, it's not good for your health, this and that, yet you brought it here today. If you don't like the admin, the forum, don't post. It's that simple.
    Last edited by Trust; June 29th, 2011 at 07:52 PM.

  11. #10
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Chuck you prefer to attack me behind closed doors, and now like the Heather situation I want people here to know what they are getting. Like in the movie Ocean's Eleven, you of all people should know that there is always someone watching.
    Loxly I have always spoken to you publicly or privately and do not bash you. I have however called you out several times to your face.

    If anyone wants to question my integrity they can feel free to read my 5000+ post on ABW. Its an open book.

  12. #11
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    If you truly felt that, you would be here educating.
    The fact that she does not do that *HERE* does nothing to disqualify or discredit what she does.
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  13. #12
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    Hey look I am not ip banned all of a sudden. What a coincidence huh BTW IP banning doesn't help as I could of logged in from my phone if I felt like it.

    I might as well be now though since I have no plans on coming back to this place unless I get a Google alert where I am mentioned. It taught me a lot about the business and for that I will be grateful. The biggest thing ABW taught me was who NOT to work with, it saved me a lot of time.

    Chuck about a month ago you told me in a post that you would never have a signature at ABW because you had integrity and then you put one up all of a sudden. It was as if someone said something to you. I also find it funny that you are trying to get your Linked In profile to rank using anchor text in your ABW signature. You should be sending people to your website not Linked In.

    I am normally quiet about the behind the scenes stuff that happens on ABW, I actually find it kind of comical at times. The whole we have 80,000 or million members is the funniest thing as it is only the same 100 or so people that post.

    I am tired of defending ABW and hoped it will come back but after today I know the writing is on the wall as for the direction of the place is heading. I was on the phone today with a few of the mods that quit. Hmmm Mods quitting all at the same time can't be a good sign.


  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidh View Post
    The fact that she does not do that *HERE* does nothing to disqualify or discredit what she does.
    No kidding, did you see me say that anywhere? She said:

    "Because ABW is becoming a platform for clueless people and turning them into perceived "authorities"."

    If you truly have a concern for ABW and the type of information that's here, then you would be here participating, correcting it, getting in on the conversation. She's been pretty absent here for many months now. Again, all while Michael was in charge. Now all of a sudden it's concern now that Chuck is admin?

  15. #14
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Yes Vinny I avoided a signature for a long time relying on my vcard. When it got back to me that people couldn't find me I added a signature. You may notice that I don't list all my programs just a link to my forum.

    You are right about my lack of web site and thanks for reminding me (again). As a place holder I have it pointing to my Chuck Hamrick | LinkedIn. Not sure how I was using anchor text on my signature?

    Yes we will have a huge announcement about the new mods Thursday. Complete cleaning of house! (kidding)

    Going to step out for dinner with my lovely wife so feel free have a free for all!

  16. #15
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    If you truly have a concern for ABW
    Many of those who have a true concern for the affiliate community AS A WHOLE (and for their own well-being) have been "doing their thing" elsewhere, as they realized long ago that ABW is kind of a shady neighborhood where lowlife scumbags - some of the dirtiest players in the industry - get their integrity vouched for by a parade of blind buttkissers and backpatters.
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  17. #16
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    Yeah, I know. But you're here complaining about ABW but haven't been here so it doesn't exactly make sense.

    "as they realized long ago that ABW is kind of a shady neighborhood where lowlife scumbags - some of the dirtiest players in the industry - get their integrity vouched for by a parade of blind buttkissers and backpatters. "

    Really? When Haiko was admin or Michael was admin or what exactly? Because I've seen you and many other people out these bad practices. Get specific if you have some sort or issue, get it off your chest. A lot of times you're very general and I think you do that on purpose so you don't have to back up your post.

    Vinny, the sig thing is kind of ridiculous since you do the exact same thing and that thing isn't even bad anyway.

    Here's a sig of yours:

    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

    Vinny linked to your site. OPM linked to a site. Twitter linked to Twitter.

    So what? That's not even a real issue. OPM is link text, so you're doing the same exact thing, you say you have a problem with Chuck doing.
    Last edited by Trust; June 29th, 2011 at 08:42 PM.

  18. #17
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    This public bickering is starting to feel like a dysfunctional family gathering - awkward & uncomfortable for the guests.

    I'm not interested in history, who said what and when. I have a business to run, a mortgage to pay.... if experts want to share their knowledge, great, here we are, ready to pay it forward (quoting myself in the other thread). This "old" vs "new" vs "old again" is getting tired.


  19. #18
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    Trust I don't have a problem with Chuck having a signature, if fact he should of had one all along. I could never figure out why he didn't have one.

    Yes I have a signature and anyone in business should have one. I use my anchor text very well too. My problem was his crack was directed at me for having a signature and talking about his reputation. If you want a screenshot I have one since I thought it was really stupid thing to say at the time.

  20. #19
    Outsourced Program Manager Paul Schroader's Avatar
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    I’ve known Chuck for years and if I’ve learned anything from my frequent interactions with him it’s that he deeply cares about affiliate marketing. He is a fierce advocate of affiliate fairness and I’ve seen him fight time and again to see that affiliates are rewarded for their efforts.

    It seems to me that this thread is simply about personality conflicts and petty grudges. If it was truly about “where ABW is headed under the new administration” then it would be more optimistic. From what I can tell, this change has Haiko’s blessing and that should be plenty for anyone who knows anything about the history of the forum.

    I feel like with Chuck, even the toughest of issues will be talked about openly and honestly going forward. I’m sure that people may take offense at some parts of the discussion, but isn’t that the nature of any serious discussion anyway? Anything that people are passionate about is likely to generate some heated debate. Through that debate, people can learn and grow. Frankly, I’m looking forward to seeing a bit of passionate debate on some serious issues.

    I don’t envy Chuck’s position, but I fully trust his ability to guide the discussion in such a way that everyone benefits.

    Just my $0.02.
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  21. #20
    Full Member bobby131313's Avatar
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    This public bickering is starting to feel like a dysfunctional family gathering - awkward & uncomfortable for the guests.

    I'm not interested in history, who said what and when. I have a business to run, a mortgage to pay.... if experts want to share their knowledge, great, here we are, ready to pay it forward (quoting myself in the other thread). This "old" vs "new" vs "old again" is getting tired.
    I agree. Put this in private where it belongs.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny O'Hare View Post
    Trust I don't have a problem with Chuck having a signature, if fact he should of had one all along. I could never figure out why he didn't have one.

    Yes I have a signature and anyone in business should have one. I use my anchor text very well too. My problem was his crack was directed at me for having a signature and talking about his reputation. If you want a screenshot I have one since I thought it was really stupid thing to say at the time.
    Ah ok. I didn't think sigs were a big deal.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by teezone View Post
    This public bickering is starting to feel like a dysfunctional family gathering - awkward & uncomfortable for the guests.

    I'm not interested in history, who said what and when. I have a business to run, a mortgage to pay.... if experts want to share their knowledge, great, here we are, ready to pay it forward (quoting myself in the other thread). This "old" vs "new" vs "old again" is getting tired.
    Agree with that to a point. I think it was you? who is also against anything that's not affiliate marketing, like the Sports Forum we have here and such. Or it might be somebody else. But these things are going to come up every now and then but you had a pretty good idea what this thread was going to be about when you clicked on it. It's the ole, don't get in threads you have no interest in. That gets old as well. When there is a thread going, people talking and somebody comes in and says, I don't like this thread, take it to private etc. Just stay out of it usually works well.
    Last edited by Trust; June 29th, 2011 at 09:09 PM.

  24. #23
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    I think it was you? who is also against anything that's not affiliate marketing, like the Sports Forum we have here and such. Or it might be somebody else.
    It's somebody else, and you couldn't be more wrong about me personally.
    you had a pretty good idea what this thread was going to be about when you clicked on it
    I know what a thread called "Loxly Split Off" will be about? I was following a thread about the change in Forum Admin.

    This discussion pretends to be about the community, but it's personal history that very few are aware of (myself included). I'm just calling that out.

    Yes, I can stay out of it.. and plan to do just that.
    Last edited by teezone; June 29th, 2011 at 09:59 PM.

  25. #24
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    I have to say something as a general statement (and feel free to move this elsewhere)... I could be alone in my views.. I'm getting tired of snide remarks and veiled references to things that, frankly, mean nothing to many of us here.
    teezone, this thread was to take the personal conversation between me and Loxly out of the Change in ABW Admin thread. I also did it to give anyone who has a personal beef with me a better place to air their differences.

  26. #25
    Outsourced Program Manager TrishaLyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobby131313 View Post
    I agree. Put this in private where it belongs.
    For what its worth, I think it's fine in public. It can potentially help more people to follow what's going on... as someone mentioned (forgive my memory) in the thread this was spun off from, we don't all know the back story and this situation can be hard to follow to assess for ourselves what might actually be going on here.
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