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  1. #1
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    I thought I would bring this up since I see a lot of people promoting Firefox here. Did you know that once you get this spyware on your computer, that it doesn't matter which browser you use. Download Zango and do some surfing with the Firefox browser, you will still get their popups. A lot of this crap has been installed on peoples computers through drive-by downloads, but I think the SP2 update with IE should stop most of that. Another way people get this crap is with free programs they download online which have this crap bundled along with it, so Firefox will not stop them from getting this crap if they choose to download the free programs with this crap. And once they get it, it doesn't make any difference which browser they use.

  2. #2
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    Yeah I knew that but a lot of people don't.

    Also did you know you can get spyware even if you only use firefox.

    Sad thing is firefox supports thing that firefox is immune from spyware and its not. I find IE Sp2 to be as secure if not more secure the Firefox.

  3. #3
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    Mikey,

    Thank you for confirming this for me. I've been very happy with my IE computer with the SP2 update. Guess I was just looking for someone to put my mind at ease for using it.

    Wayne

  4. #4
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Heheh.. I'm one of those you're talking about.

    The Mozilla (like Firefox) browsers don't suffer in the same way from BHOs and other exploits because they are designed differently. Of course, if you have spyware on your PC already you have a potential problem, but there are lots of technical reasons why Mozilla/Firefox are more secure by design than IE. (No ActiveX, no "trusted zones" etc).

    There's some pretty well informed opinion that although IE6 on XP SP2 is more secure for now, that the fundamental problems remain. In any case, not everyone is running XP.

    I'm an ODP editor (don't all boo and hiss) and that means that I review hundreds and hundreds of web sites. It is very, very rare that I come across a site that tries to exploit Mozilla.. but it does happen. Sites that try to exploit IE are sadly more common, and frankly it's just too dangerous to use IE.

    Sure, there's a serious flaw that's been found in Mozilla/Firefox over the past few days with the way it handles NNTP, for which there is a fix. For IE, there are a *lot* more serious flaws that are unpatched.

    No piece of software seems to be 100% secure.. but my personal experience with Mozilla/Firefox has been extremely positive. XP SP2 is a good way to go too.. but that approach also has its drawbacks.
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  5. #5
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm an ODP editor (don't all boo and hiss) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Heck I wasn't thinking that at all. I was thinking how I could give some praise and some cash for a few favors LOL. PM coming your way.....

    Just kidding of course

  6. #6
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    Firefox is as unsafe as IE is. A hijacker can install spyware on a firefox users pc as easy as Macromedia can get their flash plug-in installed.

    No matter what browser you use if you do not practice safe browsing you will be infected with spyware/adware and more.

    Last year when Falks ad system was compromised and they started hosting ads infected with Trojans. My IE SP2 browser blocked the virus and notified me while my Firefox Browser allowed the Trojan access to my system. Good thing my Anti-virus picked it up. Also if you want to test how well firefox protects your system. Do something crazy do a search for warez or free porn on Google and visit the sites.

    People target IE because it is the big boy. People claim firefox is secure because they don’t know better. But as the Firefox popularity grows people will discover more and more and more flaws.

    No software is 100% secure no user is 100% safe with what ever browser they use.

  7. #7
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    Must reinstall windows some ranny day... Will fix everything

  8. #8
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Must reinstall windows some ranny day... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Pick a SUNNY day to do that, then while it's busy installing you can go out...
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  9. #9
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    LOL Yeah.

    can't wait for longhorn it installs in 15 minutes.

  10. #10
    I like traffic lights
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    >Firefox is as unsafe as IE is.

    Rubbish!

  11. #11
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>>Firefox is as unsafe as IE is.

    Rubbish! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I gotta agree with Drewbert.

    First up, the the falkag trojan thingie, Firefox would never have installed the trojan because it was an IE-only vulnerability. But whatever browser you were using, your AV software will still have detected it because Firefox will still have loaded the trojan.. it will just not have executed it. Any web page will still load into the PC's memory and be cached to the hard disk.. that's all you need to trigger the AV software.

    In the examples you gave Mike, your AV software will pick up the attempted Trojan load, but because Firefox doesn't have the IE vulnerabilities, then you won't get automatically infected.

    As I said, sure Firefox has some security holes of its own, but they are at least different from IE's which makes you less of a target. IE's update through the Windows Update process is also better than Mozilla or Firefox IMO... but at a fundamental level the browser model is different. Firefox is just a browser.. IE has waaaay too many hooks into the OS, and you'll never pick up an ActiveX or cross-zone exploit on Firefox because it doesn't work that way.

    Now sure.. IE6 on SP2 is much, much better. But if you try to install SP2 on a PC already infected with spyware there's a good chance it will fail.. and that particular upgrade can potentially be very, very tricky in a significant number of cases. Besides, lots of people run Windows 98, ME, 2000 and whatnot.

    I've never had a problem with any kind of crapware on my system. I've been running Mozilla for about a year, which certainly helps. I also use Eudora for mail (Outlook Express has just as many problems as IE), ZoneAlarm for my firewall, have up-to-date anti-virus software and a smidgin of common sense. I *did* SP2 my PC over Christmas, but really I didn't need to.
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  12. #12
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    From what I've been reading online, Mozilla has
    had its share of security vulnerabilities also,
    just like IE, but Mozilla keeps its security
    bugs hidden from the public in order to protect
    their customers from coming under attack by
    malicious users. As more and more people start
    using Firefox, they will be targetted more and
    more, just like IE.
    I've been using IE for a long time, and never
    get any of the spyware crap on my computer
    either, except for when I intentionally download
    Zango for testing, but then I have never allowed
    ActiveX on my computer.

  13. #13
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    A bit off topic, I am gladd to see some positive feedback for SP2 here.
    I was beginning to think I am the only person who has had a good experience with it. Everywhere I go, online and offline, I hear horror stories about SP2.
    I installed it on all machines on my home network and it runs like a top, no problems at all.
    I find IE to be fine since SP2 came around.


  14. #14
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    I also know several friends and family members
    that have installed SP2 and have had no
    problems at all. I'll admit ActiveX was a BIG
    problem, but SP2 seems to be a much better
    system.

  15. #15
    Fear and Arrogance jrrl's Avatar
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    I feel better about having a Windows-free household every day.

    -John.
    There's a reason army's wear uniforms even though it makes them easier to spot. Sometimes that's what you want. Uniforms suggest organization, power, and numbers. These, in turn, inspire fear. And, as any good operative knows, there is no more effective weapon than fear.

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  16. #16
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    I love firefox.. IE always gets active X and all kinds of nasty stuff.. Firefox is great... Go to bookmarks and you can open all in tabs... Thats soo cool and comes in vary handy! tabs in general save my life

  17. #17
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Affiliateboss.com:
    I love firefox.. IE always gets active X and all kinds of nasty stuff.. Firefox is great... Go to bookmarks and you can open all in tabs... Thats soo cool and comes in vary handy! tabs in general save my life <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I have 4 computers running XP. I upgraded to SP2 on all and had no problems whats so ever. I use IE. Installed the new spyware tool and the only 2 programs it found were the 2 that I downloaded myself. Ebates and Zango.

    Most of the problem is user errors caused by want free Poop on the net.

    Again, if it's free then it's gonna have a hook. The only free sites I know that don't try to give you a hidden download are run by good webmasters like myself (Shamless I know).

    Poopie
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  18. #18
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    That is true, and if people are going to
    download this free stuff along with all the
    crap that comes with it, then it won't make
    any difference which browser they are using,
    they will still have this crap on their
    computer.

  19. #19
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Wayne:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Mozilla keeps its security
    bugs hidden from the public <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Errrr not really.. what tends to happen is that bugs get fixed much more quickly.. usually within a couple of days of the exploit being found. Microsoft take *ages*.

    Scohaz:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Everywhere I go, online and offline, I hear horror stories about SP2. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The nature of these things is that you tend to hear more about problematic installations than problem-free ones. One advantage in leaving the SP2 update for a while is that there's more chance of finding help *if* you get a problem. SANS shows a lot a problems with SP2 though. The best thing to do is take a really good backup, preferably using Ghost or something before doing the upgrade.
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  20. #20
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    The only exploitable bugs recent to firefox are actually windows bugs for components firefox depended on.

    I am not sure what some people are getting at with some of this. You should have SP2 installed regardless of the browser you use. It is not like having firefox installed will cure windows issues. Or that having firefox installed prevents sp2 from being installed.

    Also 100% right on the falk issue, that exploit could not and did not effect firefox, only ie.

    And finally, there is no hiding of exploits. You can check any list for bugs, they are out there in the open. You can also download the source code yourself anytime you want. I have no idea where a claim like that would come from, i would love to hear some supporting evidence.

    Chet

  21. #21
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    I just went to Google and searched for 'Firefox security'. Found the link to the following site:

    http://blogs.msdn.com/ptorr/archive/...20/327511.aspx

    where the author claimed Firefox was hiding their vulnerabilities. However, this is a Microsoft Program Manager so it would be biased.

  22. #22
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    Wayne, that guys is a complete freaking idiot. Amazing amount of bs spewed in one blog post, all over one single thing - the initial download of firefox did not come digitally signed.

    He has complete disrespect for the people working on firefox and the concept of open source.

    Big surprise for someone who works at MS.

    Chet

  23. #23
    I like traffic lights
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    What a plonker.

    It doesn't get much funnier than a MS programmer saying "If only they had spent some of that money on improving the security of their users" about a COMPETING product.

  24. #24
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Any lecture on security coming from a Microsoftie is taking the biscuit, although there's a few valid points there.

    Don't forget, this is only Firefox 1.0 so there's still a few rough edges, but IE is at version 6, so what's Microsoft's excuse exactly?

    Maybe it's time to go back to Lynx
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  25. #25
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    Here is a new article I just came across:
    http://www.informationweek.com/story...cleID=57700320

    IE Bugs Now 'Extremely Critical'

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