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  1. #1
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    PlumberSurplus, MyStrollers, PerformanceBike, Gordian Project reverse commissions
    12 sales for them since I started promoting them in June...
    12 reversals... If my math is correct that is a 100% reversal rate.

    I gave them a try because they appeared to have no "leaks."
    But I dropped them today.

  2. #2
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    Agree!
    I agree that Plumber Surplus is not playing fair with affiliates, at least this is the case with the program on CJ.
    Plumber Surplus is also on ShareASale, but I don't know if any ShareASale affiliates have the same problem with Plumber Surplus.
    Plumber Surplus constantly reverses commissions and provides various excuses like it is a "duplicate sale" even though each sale is a different amount and registers at a different time.
    I'm sure that Plumber Surplus are just taking those sales and giving the commissions to big coupon sites, while the small independent webmaster is having to fight for every nickel instead of being able to concentrate on marketing their site(s).

  3. #3
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    Do you promote MyStrollers.com and PerformanceBike.com on CJ too? I have been noticing the same trends with them as well...

    I have noticed that MyStrollers logs in about the same time on a daily bases and reverses all their sales. All the sales I got for them have been reverse within 24 hours.

    PerformanceBike just reverses everything for "returned merchandise" so either their products don't perform to well or they are up to something fishy as well...

    I was going to make another thread about them but since it seems nobody pays attention to new people around here (notice the date of my original post) I figured it was useless...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reversal Magnet View Post
    I was going to make another thread about them but since it seems nobody pays attention to new people around here (notice the date of my original post) I figured it was useless...
    Don't feel that way, Reversal Magnet. The reason nobody response to your op could be because they don't promote the merchant you mentioned(in my case) so they have no say to your post.

  5. #5
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    I updated the title of this thread and tweeted it so we can get some more attention and perhaps more responses.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Am sorry but can't really offer much info either. Do have Plumber Surplus on site but not had any sales with them. Think also have Performance Bike but haven't had any sales with them either. Did originally have them on my site and then there was a thread here somewhere saying they weren't letting coupon sites in the program. Don't remember details now but ended up removing their links since I didn't like how the thread went. (there is another bike program that is their program as well, I think.)

    Some time afterwards I received an email asking me to join their program. Explained about the coupon thread and was told they weren't aware of that thread and it wasn't true. (not sure if I put them back on my site or not)

    Bartleby -
    Am a lil curious as to something you said: "I'm sure that Plumber Surplus are just taking those sales and giving the commissions to big coupon sites, while the small independent webmaster is having to fight for every nickel instead of being able to concentrate on marketing their site(s). "

    Am not really sure why you are saying that? Are you saying that you may be sending traffic to them, the visitor sees a coupon box at checkout then goes to look for one and ends up at a coupon site so the coupon site would get the sale?

    If that's what you're saying I can certainly understand your thinking and agree that am sure that scenario does happen probably quite a bit.

    Reversal Magnet - have you tried to contact the affiliate manager to ask about the reversals for an explanation? There is a thread here where affiliates who have purchased from various merchants post if sales have been credited or not, also. Am in a bit of a hurry now but if you make a search for any of those merchants you might find some posts about them. I personally just can't offer an opinion since I haven't had sales with any of them.

    As to the other remark you made, I definitely agree with Mayfly. Also, I know just speaking for myself a lot of times I log in here to answer a pm or find something out quickly and don't look at a lot of the threads if I'm in a hurry.

    Please don't feel that anyone new is ignored. Simply, isn't the case. May take a lil while sometimes but if someone can help in answering a question or just try to help a lil they will.

    If you don't get an answer to satisfy your concerns about the reversals (just my personal opinion is it sounds very strange) there are quite a few other merchants you can work with. Don't hesitate to drop them. I had a merchant that was pretty similar to your experience. I asked the affiliate manager and was just told it exceeded the cookie time. This happened on I think all but one sale. seemed a bit hard for me to believe. Asked for a longer cookie, was told company policy not to give it so I removed them from my site. Sometimes is just better to stop working with a merchant if you feel something's not right. Good luck and hope you find an explanation that might make sense but if not, try some other merchants.

  7. #7
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    Not Sure
    Quote Originally Posted by purplebear View Post
    Are you saying that you may be sending traffic to them, the visitor sees a coupon box at checkout then goes to look for one and ends up at a coupon site so the coupon site would get the sale?

    If that's what you're saying I can certainly understand your thinking and agree that am sure that scenario does happen probably quite a bit.
    I don't think that would be the case if the sale registers in my stats, as it should be the last cookie loaded, but there is no way for me to truly know. I honestly think it's plumber Surplus's way of getting out of paying both the affiliate as well as the network by reversing commissions. I don't know exactly how the arrangement works between CJ and the Merchant, but maybe CJ and the affiliates are losing money when Plumber Surplus reverses commissions and states it's a duplicate sale.

    ReversalMagnet -
    As for PerformanceBike and MyStrollers, I don't have any experience with these merchants reversing commissions.

  8. #8
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Has anyone checked to see if they are on more than one network. Some merchants don't know how to setup tracking to only record for one network so they delete one of two sales as a reversal.

  9. #9
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Yup, SAS, per 2nd post. 4.53% reversal rate over 30 days from what I can see.

    Having a site that fits their niche, i can state that people do a lot of price comparisons, shipping cost comparisons on those kinds of items. (As with many other things).

    Like Chuck, I would suggest we have a multi network tracking issue, since they claim duplicate orders.
    Kevin Webster
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  10. #10
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    Yes they have a multiple network tracking issue. And this makes conversions, reversals, etc. completely unverifiable by CJ. Plumbersurplus is not using gateway tracking even though it is advised by CJ. How do I know this? I've been discussing it with CJ support for the past month. They have escalated this problem internally. I have had thousands of dollars worth of commissions reversed by PS over the course of the summer for duplicate orders that CJ can't verify if they take place on another network or not without using gateway tracking in place.

  11. #11
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    Well I dropped MyStrollers.com after logging in today and seeing that they have reversed all my sales from September now.

    All reversed with "Other" for the reason as usual.

    Over the passed 3-4 months I've had around 25 sales for them and every single one of them have been reversed.

  12. #12
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Very frustrating. Sorry you're experiencing it.
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  13. #13
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    Funny, I sent an email to the AM and got an "Out of the Office" auto reply...
    They can't get emails but they can sure get their fingers on that reverse button.

  14. #14
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    Hi, I'm the AM at PlumberSurplus.com and hopefully I can shed some light on this issue. First off, I would like to appologize to anyone that feels that they have been cheated out of commissions or that we aren't playing fair with our affiliates. Our affiliate networks are a very important part of our business and I can assure you, that is definitely not the case. We are having a tracking issue from having affiliate networks on both CJ and SAS. The issue is complicated because CJ wants a method that SAS doesnt allow and SAS wants another tracking method that always shows their tracking codes. Currently I am tracking orders that show up on both networks manually and crediting the sale to the affiliate with the last click through. The only data that I see when doing this is Order# and Click Date/Time from both networks. I dont see which affiliate has been credited with the sale to insure no priority is taken with any affiliates. I know this is not the best way of tracking these orders and that transparency is lacking but we are currently working on this issue with both CJ and SAS. If anyone has any suggestions, I would love to hear it so that this issue can be worked out.

  15. #15
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    Well don't expect people to keep promoting you when you reverse 25 out of 25 sales.
    We got better things to do with our time instead of giving it away and getting merchants FREE SALES.

    Every single one of them tracked on both SAS and CJ?
    Alrighty then...

    If, by some miracle, it is true then you're obviously favoring the SAS affiliates which I assume is due to a lower transaction fee.

    Seriously, if this is such a big issue then stick with one network if you can't keep track.


  16. #16
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    Let me clear it up for you a little more. We are paying out commissions for each sale we get from our affiliates. What we do not do is pay out two commissions for each sale, hence we arent getting any "FREE SALES" from anyone. I feel it would be unethical if we were getting our sales that way. I would like to add that because of the mannual tracking (CJ wants a way of tracking that SAS does not allow), I do not wait and do all reversals in one day for the month. I try to keep up with them and run the data a couple times a week so that not one affiliate is hit too hard from this tracking issue. I appriciate the time that all of our affiliates put in and I feel it would be wrong to not credit the affiliate with the last click through because a certian affiliate just so happened to get more reversals then they wanted.

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  18. #17
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    I'll say it again...
    25 out of 25 sales of mine were also credited to a SAS affiliate as well? And they all got the last click???

    Ok, whatever you say.

  19. #18
    ABW Ambassador La_Valette's Avatar
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    Old thread but an update on this - MyStrollers.com is still reversing pretty much all transactions sent to them. Just pulled all our links for them.
    Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -- Homer Simpson

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  21. #19
    ABW Ambassador isellstuff's Avatar
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    Same with Remodelr.com. The Gordian Project reversal rates are much worse than you would think, because they tend to reverse all the high dollar commissions.

    Has anyone ever reached out to the CEO of Gordian? It would be interesting to see what he has to say about such large scale and obvious fraud. In other words, does he know what is going on....

  22. #20
    ABW Ambassador isellstuff's Avatar
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    If the CEO of the Gordian Project is on the "up and up", then he should agree to an external audit of their affiliate program, with particular attention paid to where the "last click" sales attribution is really going.

    In other words, who is getting our commissions when they are cancelled and re-assigned to another network. I think the results of such an audit would be amusing, to say the least.

    Gordian Project runs PlumberSurplus.com, Remodelr.com, outdoorpros.com:

    http://www.gordianproject.com/
    Last edited by isellstuff; August 8th, 2013 at 12:32 PM.

  23. #21
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    I know this is an old thread but I just want to confirm these practices are still going on.

    Just started to promote PlumberSurplus.com (SAS program) recently on one of our affiliate sites - not being aware of all the problems described above.

    We referred so far 6 sales with each sale in the $200-$400 range. 3 sales so far have been reversed! That's a 50% reversal rate.

    This is not in line with the sales stats of other similar merchants we're promoting on the same site and they all sell the same products.

    So I started to research and discovered the different threads here discussing the same issue.

    I've sent a message to PlumberSurplus for more explanation. If I hear back from them I report back.

    I see this thread started in 2011 - even a slight attempt or 2 from the PlumberSurplus AM at that time trying to justify things!

    3 years later and nothing has been fixed. Still the same issues today.

    They really seem to care about their affiliate base! Very disappointing.

  24. #22
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    The answer I got...

    There are only a few resaons that orders are reversed on our affiliate programs. They are due to cancelled orders and returned merchandise as well as repeated orders that show up on both our SAS program and CJ program which then the affiliate that has the last click through will receive the commission. I hope that it make sense to reverse orders that have been cancelled. To give a commission to an affiliate on an order that we received no money for would not make much business sense and giving out two separate commissions for a single order that was placed doesn't either. I hope you can understand these decisions and I do apologize that this has affected you in a way to make you think there is some wrong doing going on, but cancelled orders are an issue that occur and we struggle with them just as much as affiliates do. If you have any other questions please feel free to ask and I will try my best to clear them up for you.

  25. #23
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    @stev

    Sorry to hear about your problems with PlumberSurplus or any other Gordian Project merchant sites. The plain and simple of it is that they have not addressed the problems over the years. They can not be trusted and never improved the situation. They will gladly take the sales you send them, but you won't get much if anything from them in commissions. They just don't pay out. They can chock it up to whatever they like (usually duplicate sales). It doesn't matter what reason they give. You will lose money by promoting them. I would advise any new affiliates to steer clear and promote their competitors instead. That is what I've been doing for a while now and it has worked out very well.

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