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  1. #1
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    Haiko -

    Since you addressed me in your earlier post re: iAfma and then locked the thread, I am responding here.

    You posted that "He (Herby) knew you were out of the office so the posts went straight through he took advantage of a situation and I was not the only one to complain!"

    The posts to the USAMC are moderated by myself and Prakash at 1-800-FLOWERS. No posts go "straight through." So unless you are alleging that Prakash is lacking in integrity and exercising some sort of pro Herby/ anti Haiko bias, I don't really get your point.

    For the edification of any folks here that are not familiar with the USAMC group, it was started originally started as a grassroots collection of affiliate managers in New York City. The group evolved into an e-mail list of those NYC affiliate managers (who would also meet monthly offline to discuss best practices), and the list gradually expanded across the U.S. and later Internationally.

    The main purpose of the group, which I began in the spring of 2000, was to create a professional membership organization of affiliate managers that served to instruct and inform affiliate managers about the best practices in the industry, and to encourage discourse on ideas to better the industry.

    While predatory advertising is certainly an issue that has been hotly debated by the group, it is most assuredly not the only issue, and we never made any claims to be some vigilante group that crusaded against predatory advertisers - rather, it was my goal to get all of the facts on the table for merchants.

    Haiko - I realize that some individuals challenged your posts about Morpheus/Worlmedia, but it's a rather broad stroke to state:

    "They (the USAMC) had problems with Me posting the Alert list which they said was a black list (like the whenu one). They also said back in March when it all started ... PROVE IT, PROVE PROVE IT and they kept shooting me down left and right ... not even an I'm sorry for basically calling you a liar!"

    Feel free to call out any individuals if you like, but the USAMC as a group didn't say anything to you.

    Anyhow, the USAMC group has an opportunity to move on to the next level - as the membership organization that I had planned from the start, but didn't have the time and resources to achieve myself - by getting together with iAfma.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Shawn,

    I have no problems with neither you nor Prakash, you both manage the USAMC very well and no I am not questioning either of your integrities ... but If you let someone piss on ABW or question my integrity, then I should also be allowed to defend myself and I was precluded from that!

    Period!

    Haiko

  3. #3
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    Haiko -

    With all due respect, posts were rejected, because they had devolved into personal attacks and misunderstandings, and I was receiving a constant stream of complaints from people that had no interest in what had become an off-topic battle.

    For instance, one of your posts that was released to the list included:

    "your charging people from $25+ for the capability to post or edit a message?"

    When Herby responded that this was not true, you responded:

    "Don't you *EVER* call me a liar!"

    This was based on the fact that the iAfma Silver Membership (at a cost of $25) included 'Basic read/write access to all the iAfma.org discussion forums.'

    However, this is also included in the FREE membership - the paid memberships included the perks of the free membership, plus additional items.

    It was a misunderstanding on your part, and Herby didn't call you a liar, but you got all fired up about it. After this sort of thing happened a couple of times, we cut it off.

    In retrospect, I hope you can appreciate this, just as you eliminated the iAfma thread on ABW, since it got to a point where it had no value to your users.

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Shawn,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>just as you eliminated the iAfma thread on ABW, since it got to a point where it had no value to your users.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I removed it for a "cooling off" period ... but it has been back since I posted and locked the other thread!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>With all due respect, posts were rejected, because they had devolved into personal attacks and misunderstandings, and I was receiving a constant stream of complaints from people that had no interest in what had become an off-topic battle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I will post my "My Last Post" which was not approved ...OBVIOUSLY ON TOPIC!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Ok I am sick and tired of this bloody farce! All the petty shots at me and my board are allowed and my informative responses were not! As a result, I post the following and will be leaving the USAMC group if it stays under the GUISE of Herby's BS not-for-profit "iAmaswiss.org" ... I have a name and a reputation to protect!

    ------------------------------
    >Hmmm! I, also, do not see the iAfma listed in the Guidestar Database, is there a reason for the NON listing?<
    Haiko, iAfma.org is NOT a United States entity and never will be. We adhere to Swiss law. When the time comes, the United States Chapter of iAfma.org may seek to be listed in that journal.
    ------------------------------

    Although I have not gotten in direct contact (yet) with the Swiss Federal Register, I am pretty sure that the owner of the "not-for-profit" organizations (as professed by Mr. Olschewski) *ICCWorldWide* is a *FOR* profit organization as it is an existing Swiss LLC actually called "Soci√©t√© √* responsabilit√© limit√©e" (S√*rl) or Societ√* a responsibilit√* limitata (Sarl)). This ICCWW or ICCWorldWide is the owner of multiple domains including "ROBOTCOCK" no, nothing to do with chickens! Please see http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-0900.html which states:

    ------------------------------
    "Respondent [Herby] submitted to Complainant an invoice of $128,000 for the Eroscillator / RobotCock project management over 18 months, for the initial registration and for the hosting of the Domain Name. Since Complainant did not pay this invoice, Respondent refused to transfer the Domain Name to Complainant"
    ------------------------------

    I am sure that there are other cases and other issues with ICCWW / ICCWorldwide/ Other Herby cos but, I care not to venture that deep.

    The USAMC is great and a fantastic idea and I also agree to the globalization, local and country specific chapters but I will not put my name on an alleged not-for-profit that *OBVIOUSLY* is for profit!

    Domain Name: iafma.org
    ===================
    ICCWorldWide
    777 Arthur Godfrey Rd
    Miami Beach, FL 33140

    Domain Name: Icafma.org
    ===================
    AffiliateFORCE.com
    777 Arthur Godfrey Road, Suite 200
    Miami Beach, Florida 33140

    Domain Name: affiliateforce.com
    ===================
    ICCWorldWide
    777 Arthur Godfrey Rd
    Miami Beach, FL 33140

    I have found "quite" a few domains and orgs that are either owned by Flamingo Internet Ventures / ICCWorldWide or other variations of Herby's *not-for-profit* company but that does not concern me, what I care about is the MISREPRESENTATION and HISTORY of Herby's ICCWorldWide and how it relates to the furthering USAMC!

    ------------------------------
    >I hope you do well with your efforts to "keep it fair" but unfortunately, I already see some "roadblocks".<
    By all means let me know what they are and we can address them together. After all, it's just as much your association as it is mine.
    ------------------------------

    Umm, not it's all yours and I want NOTHING to do with it! It is, indeed, a shame that the USAMC must get involved with this type of entity and it's Vibrator and other fiascos history ... and as such I must humbly bow out of participation in the USAMC and Herby's for-profit- Swiss.org (obviously set up for tax benefits [and yes, I'm being nice here!])

    To each his own Herby. I mean you no harm and sincerely hope you do well. I just wish you could have applied YOUR prior enthusiasm in more RATIONAL fashion!

    Haiko
    ETHICAL MARKETER!

    PS. To keep it "FAIR" (ROTFLMAO!) ... I rescind all my previous offers to host the group as well as my offer to pay for NON-ABW hosting *BUT* will be more than willing to donate/pay the fees of a REAL non-profit org aimed at the furthering of the USAMC's goals.

    ==============================
    http://www.abestweb.com
    The Fastest Growing Affiliate board
    3,700++ members are not wrong!
    ==============================
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    So my appreciation of the USAMC and Bloody stupidity to step on Herby's toes means that I post off topic, irrational and unfactual information?

    The snide remarks about rational behabvior and the such were some of Herby's quotes against me / ABW

    Haiko
    PS. I'm glad I closed the threads to facilitate the ending of this issue and as an attempt to go forward. :confused:

  5. #5
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    Haiko -

    All things considered, I don't see how your investigative reporting on Herby, and the not-for-profit position of iAfma is "OBVIOUSLY ON TOPIC" for a group that was set up to discuss best practices in affiliate marketing.

    Herby has stated that he is collecting the documentation and will make it available shortly. If he does not do this, then I think you have a right to shout, but until then, I think it's reasonable to presume innocence until proven guilty.

    Further, while you have continually maligned Herby and iAfma, I don't see anything in your previous post where he said anything negative about ABW.

    Yes, you both made adolescent posts about one another, and I haven't come across anybody that found these boorish exchanges to be useful or productive.

    You're both working towards the same ultimate goal - a cleaner, fairer industry, so can we just get on with it already.

    Herby is in NYC over the next several days - how about the three of us get together for lunch on Monday and discuss how we can all achieve what's best for the industry? I'll treat, so you two don't have to fight over the bill.

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom

  6. #6
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    My 2 cents...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>how about the three of us get together for lunch on Monday and discuss how we can all achieve what's best for the industry?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Excellente idea....

  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Shawn,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>All things considered, I don't see how your investigative reporting on Herby, and the not-for-profit position of iAfma is "OBVIOUSLY ON TOPIC" for a group that was set up to discuss best practices in affiliate marketing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    With all due respect ... "the group" is being assimilated to this "non-profit" so forgive me, how in the world wouldn't it be especially when the listed domain registrant ICCWW is a for profit be an issue?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Further, while you have continually maligned Herby and iAfma, I don't see anything in your previous post where he said anything negative about ABW.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I do not need to post them here but I will post:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sorry-I cannot approve. You may feel that Herbys post should not have been approved in the first place, but it was a little out of my control. I wasnt here and the last thing on Shawns mind at this difficult time is to review content before approving.

    Sorry--please send to Herby directly.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't have a problem with that ... But then after four more shots against me and ABW:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sorry Haiko about these posts-Please understand that I am walking a fine line here and have no personal preferences at all. I post what I feel is OK atleats for the majority of the post...You are a good guy, let this go. I will now allow any more ABW related or other personal attacks to go thru.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    While I HIGHLY respect both you and Prakash, my not being allowed to post a response creates the political game which snowballs and it explodes into the existing anti ABW/Haiko BS ... and it is all at my cost! That is not fair - I am nobody's "doo rag"!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You're both working towards the same ultimate goal - a cleaner, fairer industry, so can we just get on with it already.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Allow me to repeat that I was looking out for the USAMC when I looked this up, and have ended this battle with Herby (see the other post). I'm letting him do what he needs to do to set it up in peace, hopefully, it will flurish and be a real resource. I will continue to do my own thing and read the other posts to broaden my "understandings" for I have no desire other than the best for our industry and have put MY neck on the line for it many times.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>All good men have good ideas and good intentions - precious few ever put them into action ~ Ben Franklin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Respectfully,

    Haiko

  8. #8
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    Haiko -

    You posted rejection e-mails from Prakash that were in response to your own e-mails.

    Still, I don't see anything in your posts where Herby said anything negative about ABW.

    On the contrary, you were attacking Herby as a spammer, among other things, right after his iAfma update post on Friday.

    Should I assume by virtue of the fact that you ignored my offer of lunch that you are not interested?

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom

  9. #9
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Shawn,

    I respectfully beg to differ ... yes the answers were included in my rejection notices of my responses to the allegations and posts against ABW and I. If he is allowed to piss on us we should be allowed to answer. (eg. Don't start something you can't finish! ... or in this case ... Don't let someone start something your not going to allow to be finished)

    Yes, I obviously get very emphatic (see the original ICCWW post) when I am upset at such an elevated level of "injustice". My rejected responses were NOT they were to save face from the posts of Herby that Prakash, could easily identify my complaints with.

    Once again ... My goal was only the correct furtherance of the USAMC's ethical and honorable itinerary, nothing more! I even offered publicly and privately to pay for the hosting and software of it with Non-ABW status. I have no ulterior motive than the truth and furthering of the USAMC.


    He did Spam the board as no one knew that you had decided to move the USAMC to the iafma ... see the posts about it. I even mailed you privately about it to get confirmation of the fact prior to any of the posts, but unfortunately, the passing of your father precluded you from answering that q before all of this.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Should I assume by virtue of the fact that you ignored my offer of lunch that you are not interested?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Forgive my rudeness, I thought I included that before I had to log off earlier. While I feel honored for the invitation, I must at this time humbly decline. You have my publicly posted WORD that I will not interfere with the iAfma / USAMC ... I'd like to see the realities first ... you both have my [quiet] support, but if you allow Herby to post shoot against ABW / me I will squawk.

    Respectfully,

    Haiko
    [grammar]

    [ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  10. #10
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Hi Shawn. I hope you will listen to me or at least take what I say into consideration.

    First, why did you bother to post the link of the messages knowing that for anyone to be able read them, they have to be a member of the "club" or "managers clique" - whatever ? The one thing I really like about ABW is that everyone can read the messages and even humble(or not so humble as the case may be) affiliates can come to this managers forum - read and post.

    When someone posts a link I cannot see, I tend not to believe what is posted. Where is the proof? I cannot judge for myself and I have to believe what you say is true.

    And there in lies the crux of the matter.

    For the most part, what I have seen is affiliates getting screwed by companies and affiliate managers, parasiteware etc...
    Yes, there are honest people. But there are also dishonest people too, way too many of them.

    I recently asked one of my affiliate managers to come take a look at the parasite ware thread because I am not good at explaining all the tech stuff. I was told that this board, ABW and Haiko, had lost all credibility. Why? Because the private affiliate managers forum had pronounced judgement on him and members of this forum.

    That is really sad. This forum is comprised by many many decent hard working people just trying to make an honest living.

    Haiko has personally helped me more than once. He has also helped many others.

    So, for me, if Haiko wants to blast parasite ware or dishonest merchants - I say go for it!! And personally I don't give a hoot if the affiliate managers like it or not. At least he is trying.

    I don't give an hoot and holler if the "private affiliate managers forum" doesn't like that someone has the guts to make waves. Long live the waves!!! I hope it builds and builds until all the dishonesty is washed clean.

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  11. #11
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Vicki,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I recently asked one of my affiliate managers to come take a look at the parasite ware thread because I am not good at explaining all the tech stuff. I was told that this board, ABW and Haiko, had lost all credibility. Why? Because the private affiliate managers forum had pronounced judgment on him and members of this forum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes indeed! I wondered why Herby was allowed to post all the shoot and I couldn't post to defend ABW nor Myself ... Well A few merchants have contacted me about Herby offering them a private forum on his board, they OBVIOUSLY said no thank you!

    This entire thing has been manipulated into a political thing all at my cost! Herby keeps posting about ParasiteWare but he never did shoot about it, in fact he is soooo out of the loop that I had to correct him yesterday ...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Quoting "iAmfa.org" <yahoo@i...>:
    >>>c|net have just uploaded the latest version of Morpheus (1.9.1). (To date 93,889,009 Morpheus downloads have been initiated from c|net alone. This is an impressive number.)<<<

    Point of information: Morpheus 1.9.1 has been out for almost two weeks and that download number is still from the original download; when I downloaded the "Fixed" version the number was 91,000,091

    Haiko<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I have gone from infuriated to just bloody fed up, I turn my computer off for hours now ... there is no reason to fight, for his booze cruise friends will scr*w me again and again!

    Haiko

    PS. The post on the USAMC says:
    [QUOTE]Herby,

    I wrote:
    =========================
    I was wondering Herby, on the site it states:

    >>>>A not-for-profit organization, setting the ethics & >standards for affiliate programs & revenue sharing!<<<
    Yet, your charging people from $25+ for the capability to post or edit a message?
    =========================
    You wrote:

    ==========
    Not true.
    ==========

    Don't you *EVER* call me a liar! On your "iAmaSWISS.org" site it specifically says:

    =========================
    Silver Membership* requires a small $25 contribution to the cause and comes with a smorgasbord of benefits!
    >>>Can create new discussion threads and edit own posts<<<
    =========================

    >>>You have not even figured out how to get into the forums yet, so how would you know? Check your email and click on your authentication link ;-)<<<

    Maybe I didn't think I had to register umpteen times or is that how they do it in Switzerland? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

    I am not here to blast you, but ask that you do what you profess ... "keep it fair!" Your MLM structured affiliate program will most probably be another farce (like the blasting you got about the affiliateForce affiliate program on www.revenews.com). When the collectors come ... I guess the headache to go to a Swiss court to get their money, will be enough of a deterrent. So lets call it a "Not-for-anyone-else's-profit" company [img]tongue.gif[/img] *SIGH*!

    Haiko
    Haiko@a...
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  12. #12
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    Hi Vicki -

    I posted the link for any managers that would be interested in accessing it, since I made the post in the "Merchants Corner," but I also included the information that I was referencing in my post.

    I agree that there are way too many bad affiliate managers, whether out of ignorance, being lazy or other reasons. That I one of the things I was trying to correct with the United States Affiliate Manager Coalition.

    Just like you, I am an affiliate - I was an affiliate long before I ever managed a program.

    You said one of your affiliate managers stated that Haiko and ABW had lost all credibility because "the private affiliate managers forum had pronounced judgement on him and members of this forum."

    I'm not sure who your spoke with, but the group didn't pronounce any judgement - it's a group of 400+ affiliate managers, and neither myself or anybody else would think they had the right to speak for the whole group.

    Personally, I have no objection to what Haiko has done to combat predatory advertising - in fact, I applaud it.

    I have communicated with him privately about providing some information to me for an article I will be writing on the subject, because I consider him to be an authority.

    There are some affiliate managers that don't like Haiko, and that's because they're working with the parasites - but that's not the whole group, and certainl not me - you won't find one of those companies in the ClubMom affiliate program.

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom

  13. #13
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    Ah. Light dawns. I wondered what all this was about.

    It wasn't hard to see that Herbie was Up To Something. Its time to drop him. He has no credibility with affiliates after the no-show checks and continues to run an organization that proves how saintly he is. Thus compounding his error. His judgement is highly suspect.

    I can't be arsed to work out the full Plan, but whatever it is Haiko is an obstacle to it so has to be discredited. He wouldn't have been an obstacle if prepared to follow where Herbie leads - hence the friendly sounding overtures.

    No doubt dinner would have included a discussion on how to divide up the spoils and Haiko is wise to stay well away.

    Let Herbie have his precious affiliate managers. They don't mean shit without the affiliates anyway. Who appear to remain squarely behind Haiko. Because Haiko is trusted and Herbie isn't.

    Herbie might be wise to consider what happened to Janet Berg when she picked on Big Chuck.

    <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon38.gif>

    I

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador
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    Icicle,

    They definitely don't want to get ABW'ers foaming at the mouth. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    So affiliate managers have to pay to join a secret society and figure out how to contain the bad PR spread by outrage caused by the scumlords and parasites. In order to FEED off of affiliate traffic and PPC keyworks these merchant program managers need ignorant affiliates willing to seek "lead fees".

    Screw lead fees which are just one rung above PPC programs. The "incent" in-context advertising crowd who brought us opt-out email permission marketing schemes need to be regulated out of business. If you want a grass roots "best practice" association then just admit merchants that actually sell products and are willing to post their conversion stats...period.

  16. #16
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    Hm..

    You know the Softly Softly approach to dealing with scumware? I woke up this morning wondering how much it pays. In an 'under the table sense'.


    I

  17. #17
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Icicle,

    Enough to imply that "their friends" would /want to take action against the "irrational" Haiko?!?

    From a Post on the USAMC ( 6/14)
    ================================


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    ... I've heard from more than one CEO that they are not pleased with your approach and leaning towards taking legal action. This action probably won't put you behind bars, but I certainly think you may need a few dollars for defense attorneys, even just to reply and contest the cease and desist letters. Seeing as you are operating in in the United States, I'd say you are at financial risk.

    -snip-

    Yes, you can turn around the legal threats into bravado as you do on your boards. Hopefully for you the folks who say "Go Haiko!" will back it up with a few checks towards your legal fund.

    -snip-

    Should iAfma.org one day decide to take the parasites and double-dealing merchants to task publicly ...

    -snip-

    To each his own Haiko. I mean you no harm and sincerely hope you do well. I just wish you could have applied your enthusiasm in more rational fashion.

    All the best,

    Herby
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  18. #18
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    What do the letters IAFMA stand for?
    I Am F_ My Affiliates?

    What's really going on here is very similar to what happens when the workers of an industry begin to unionize. The "powers that be" become terrified. There are threats and every manner of sabre-rattling, esp against those doing the organizing. Even speaking the word "union" becomes grounds for dismissal.

    Likewise, Affiliate managers whose programs engage in bad business practices are terrified at the thought of affiliates organizing as a group and speaking with one voice, of talk of mass boycotts of their programs, class action lawsuits and the like. They realize that without us, the parasites they allow in their programs would have nowhere to feed, and they would lose money. The parasites need us to survive just as the affiliate programs need us to survive. If enough of us quit their programs or take down their links, not only will they not be making money off of us, they won't be making money from the parasites. What we did in taking a unified stand in the M*rpheus issue has scared the bejeezus out of them. "My guld, what will they do next? Take a stand against non-payment?"

    [ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  19. #19
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    So the Merchants' "association" got their panties in a wad because someone wasn't nice to the purveyors of parasiteware?

    Of course, it's probably easier to be "polite" and "professional" when you don't have a slimebag's hand rooting around in your pocket.

  20. #20
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    >Enough to imply that "their friends" would /want to take action against the "irrational" Haiko?!?

    Damn I'm good.

    Um, yeah. They'll try anything. I said a long time ago to take care. They'll stop at nothing.

    I've seen it time and time again what a vested interest is capable of. They'll try getting you entangled in legal action while making sure the judge has been well paid by themselves. If that fails they'll try having you sectioned. Or getting your name on file as a wanted criminal etc.

    If you are ever in hospital and some shrink comes up to you and wants to do a 'routine' interview - run far, far away. Especially if all you have is a broken leg. Its been done in the UK, I should imagine it can be done in NY too.

    I always worry that the opposition here depends far too much on one person.

    For now they are still at the 'asking you to dinner so they can compromise you somewhere down the line' stage. But there's nothing gives a crook the s***s like an honest person. Everyone has their price, they hope. They will get angry beyone belief when they find out what yours is.

    If I were you I'd have a spare ID ready to go. It could turn very very nasty. And put off having kids for a few years.

    In the meantime, turf the little shit outta here, along with any other useful idiot who thinks he's such a good idea. That way, any later gripe they have with you can be called 'a bee in their bonnets about being thrown out of my forum'.

    Its a lot more humane than the traditional treatment doled out to collaborators where Herbie comes from (it involves rubber necklaces) so he'll have little to complain about.


    I

    [ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: Icicle ]

  21. #21
    Newbie
    Join Date
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    Eagelfire,
    >What do the letters IAFMA stand for?
    I Am F_ My Affiliates?

    I was wondering what iamawuss.org stood for. Then I wasn't.

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    I

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    You guys nailed it on the head. These organizations cater to the wishes of professional merchant affiliate program managers and merchant aggregrators. These guys take huge fees to push parasites/scumware -opt-out e-mail campaigns -incent Duperaffiliates and eyeball generating schemes on budgeted merchants. Little like asking the Direct marketing Association to get tough on opt-out list brokers, spammers and telemarketers within their ranks.

    The one thing this organization will not do is promote conversion techniques like practiced by Andy of TigerDirect.

  23. #23
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    January 18th, 2005
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    Mike -

    The USAMC hasn't catered to anybody. The sole function of the group has been to enlighten affiliate managers as to the ways to run a good affiliate program.

    Admittedly, there is plenty of ignorance amongst affiliate managers, and the USAMC has been a place where people that know what's going on have been able to bring the others up to speed on various issues (i.e. Haiko making people aware of predatory advertisers).

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom

  24. #24
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    January 18th, 2005
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shawn Collins - ClubMom:
    Mike -

    The USAMC hasn't catered to anybody. The sole function of the group has been to enlighten affiliate managers as to the ways to run a good affiliate program.
    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mike, I have to agree with Shawn's statement here.

    I have been a member of the "old" USAMC now for over 10 months. I can say nothing negative as to the type of comments and free flowing of information discussed in those online meetings. I participate and am active in the discussion lists and I can speak very well of many on that list.

    Are there merchants there that run with parasite ware - YES

    Are all the merchants there that participate running with parasites - NO.

    As with any group, you do have the good and the bad.

    At this point, i need to stand up and say something about Shawn. When i started in affiliate marketing in July of last year, (7/01) - I had no clue of what affiliate marketing was. My background was in print and online advertising. The first resource i heard about was Shawn Collins. I picked his brain on the phone, ICQ and by e-mail. I went out and bought his book (still sitting on my desk for reference), read the entire thing. Shawn has always been willing to help and educate, and is very pro affiliates.

    I say this because after finally meeting Shawn in person during Affiliate Force and talking to him for a while, i can't say enough about the inroads he has made in promoting good behaivior and good ethics within the affiliate marketing community.

    I'll state it here for the record, the USAMC has been of of the best resources that i have had at my disposal. I say "has" been because, like many others, I don't know what the future will hold now that it has merged and although it will "continue" to be run by Shawn, it will be "influenced" by others.

    I hope it will continue to be the great resource it has been until now.

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Your our inside MAN Andy and getting the message out on what works for ABW affiliates makes you our Union Steward. Most affiliate managers can't seperate sales from advertising and milking the Net shopper becomes more difficult daily. As a former contract bus driver for Walmart dropping off 100 people a day I couldn't eat on the 13.00 they owed me in 2 years. If they join the Union maybe I'll drive traffic for them again.

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