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  1. #1
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    Marketing Internationally?
    Is it possible to market to and sell to an international market from the US? Thanks

  2. #2
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Yes but you need to insure that the merchant commissions for international sales. Most don't. We have several international network with forums on ABW.

  3. #3
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    Buyat and Linkshare have a number of merchants based in the UK.

    You can market US merchants internationally provided that they ship internationally.
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  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Commission Junction also has quite a few merchants from quite a few countries. Amazon has separate programs for other countries, too. You have to be careful with at least some of the non US Amazon programs though because if you don't get sales within a certain period of time (not sure if two or three years) a fee is deducted from your account.

    Although for whatever reason I haven't had them convert very well for me Webgains has a lot of programs from other countries.

    Am not being critical of them but I'm one of the rare affiliates I think who prefers checks as a payment option. That is a problem with Buyat. I think it's a great affiliate network and love the people there, just for me the payment is a problem. Am only telling you this in case you would happen to be like me (altho doubt you would be)

    If you do want to work with other countries, one lil suggestion. Several English (American English) words are spelled differently or have entirely different words for the same American words. For instance: coupons are vouchers in the UK and jewelry I believe is jewellery (not positive tho) gift baskets I think are hampers in the UK, etc. So, if you are going to attempt to market to them some of the words may be different.

    Also, many of the holidays in different countries are at different times, such as Mother's Day, New Years in some, etc.

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  6. #5
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    I didn't know that any of the International programs on Commission Junction deducted a fee from one's account! That's an important tip to keep in mind.

    I too prefer checks as payment, so you are not alone purplebear.
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  7. #6
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplebear View Post
    You have to be careful with at least some of the non US Amazon programs though because if you don't get sales within a certain period of time (not sure if two or three years) a fee is deducted from your account.
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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplebear View Post
    Commission Junction also has quite a few merchants from quite a few countries. Amazon has separate programs for other countries, too. You have to be careful with at least some of the non US Amazon programs though because if you don't get sales within a certain period of time (not sure if two or three years) a fee is deducted from your account.

    Although for whatever reason I haven't had them convert very well for me Webgains has a lot of programs from other countries.

    Am not being critical of them but I'm one of the rare affiliates I think who prefers checks as a payment option. That is a problem with Buyat. I think it's a great affiliate network and love the people there, just for me the payment is a problem. Am only telling you this in case you would happen to be like me (altho doubt you would be)

    If you do want to work with other countries, one lil suggestion. Several English (American English) words are spelled differently or have entirely different words for the same American words. For instance: coupons are vouchers in the UK and jewelry I believe is jewellery (not positive tho) gift baskets I think are hampers in the UK, etc. So, if you are going to attempt to market to them some of the words may be different.

    Also, many of the holidays in different countries are at different times, such as Mother's Day, New Years in some, etc.
    I will keep this in mind. Hope the OP will do the same.

  9. #8
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    I'm sorry Rhia7 for the confusion. When I posted I was just referring to the different Amazon programs. I know I dropped out of the UK program since even tho I do get some sales from the UK I can't really predict if that would keep up and didn't want to have the fee deducted. Am not sure about the others.

    As to CJ as far as I know regardless where they're attempting to market if they don't meet whatever that CJ minimum is they'd still get hit with that fee or terminated. Honestly can't remember which it is. Know in the beginning tho I was always afraid it would get me lol but fortunately I seem to be able to reach it now.

    Bestweb Cupid - I noticed you're in Australia so people would definitely have to remember if marketing to your country that the seasons are the opposite to in the US. I do know that from friends I have from your country. An not really too familiar with your holidays, tho.

    Rhia7 - I'm glad I'm not alone regarding the check payment Pretty sure there are a few others, too.

  10. #9
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    I don't know much about amazon, but CJ has good presence with good merchants in the UK. If a $50 threshold is enough to discourage one from trying CJ in the UK market, it should be enough to discourage one from trying to do affiliate marketing at all.
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  11. #10
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    I've seen lots of campaigns don't really have geo targeting for traffic. Can I assume that those are good for every country out there?

  12. #11
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    Not necessarily.

    Check the merchants shipping terms. This will usually give some insight as to the merchants shipping area.
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  13. #12
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    "If a $50 threshold is enough to discourage one from trying CJ in the UK market, it should be enough to discourage one from trying to do affiliate marketing at all. "

    I'm sorry davidh I guess I did a bad job explaining what I was trying to say. I didn't mean to imply for anybody to not try CJ in the UK market. I agree that CJ does have a good presence in the UK market. All I was saying that if you do try them that you should be aware that there is a minimum threshold to be met.

    I wouldn't want somebody to just test the UK market with a merchant or two and then not meet that threshold and end up being terminated by CJ. As I said I have gotten some sales from UK merchants (I don't believe any at CJ, tho but would have to check to be sure) but I don't get a lot. Know of other affiliates that don't do too well with that market as well. I honestly don't know how easy or difficult it is to get sales in that particular market.

    I would suggest if they were going to attempt the UK market to not rule out being affiliated with some other merchants at CJ not in the UK market as well so they have a better chance at meeting that threshold.

    As to your remark about not being able to meet the $50 threshold it should be enough to discourage one from trying to do affiliate marketing at all. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree with you.

    I know of some successful affiliates that just for whatever reason don't do well with one particular network. I doubt they feel they should give up being an affiliate because of that.

    From your remarks I'm, guessing you must have had success pretty soon after you started as an affiliate. That's great and am happy for you that was the case. Not everybody has been so fortunate, tho. I definitely wouldn't want to give anybody the impression if they are just starting out that they will be as fortunate as you were and if they aren't then they're a failure and should just give up. If that were the case there would be a lot of affiliates that wouldn't be here today.

    If somebody really wants to be an affiliate I want to encourage them. Definitely would tell them not to give up their day job for sure until they establish themselves and are doing fairly well. Not being able to meet the CJ threshold is not a sign of failure. Finding which merchants convert well for them takes time. Just learning to be an affiliate takes time. Being an affiliate and deciding even if it is something you want to do takes time.

    As I said, you're entitled to your opinion and mean no disrespect to you but just strongly disagree with you. Don't want to discourage anybody at all from being an affiliate if that's what they want to do just because they couldn't meet CJ's minimum threshold. Want to tell them to be patient and not give up. There are a lot of merchants they can work with and several affiliate networks even. Just because they don't meet CJ's threshold is not reason for them to think they're a failure and give up.

    Agree with Witzer's post. In most cases you can visit a merchant's site, look at their shipping info or even FAQ and find out about their shipping. If not, I've written a lot of affiliate managers and even merchants at times to find out.

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  15. #13
    ABW Ambassador JoyUnltd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick View Post
    Yes but you need to insure that the merchant commissions for international sales. Most don't. We have several international network with forums on ABW.
    I remember reading a post here somewhere but couldn't find it, to the effect that in order to make international sales more viable, the int'l shipper the merchant uses offers a very low rate & that if their service is used by the customer, the shipper's cookie will overwrite the affiliate's. This was about U.S. merchants who ship internationally.
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  17. #14
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    I remember reading a post here somewhere but couldn't find it, to the effect that in order to make international sales more viable, the int'l shipper the merchant uses offers a very low rate & that if their service is used by the customer, the shipper's cookie will overwrite the affiliate's. This was about U.S. merchants who ship internationally.
    Actually the order is taken to another cart which factors the shipping, duties and customs fees. It many times will not transfer back to the Thank You page on the merchant site thus NOT firing the pixel. It doesn't override the cookie it completely ignores it. Its important to verify that the international orders are tracked as in most cases they are not.

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  19. #15
    ABW Ambassador JoyUnltd's Avatar
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    Yes Chuck, that was it...forgot the details, thank you!
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  20. #16
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Oooh I must've missed that or just don't remember seeing it. That could involve an awful lot of merchants and an awful lot of my visitors are from other countries. Unless checking each one am not sure how to know that answer and am not sure I'd live long enough to do so either.

    Might be a dummy question but in regards to: "This was about U.S. merchants who ship internationally"

    I have in particular one merchant that would be the reverse situation. They're not in the US but do offer shipping to it and other countries as well (because there seem to be more bear merchants that are not in the US or put another way, a shortage of bear merchants in the US) Shipping from non US merchants would be different or would still possibly be a problem?

    This is another subject so probably shouldn't mention it but ummm will do so quickly then ask everybody to ignore me afterwards I do recall something about Paypal used as a payment was a problem. Did that ever get looked into or fixed??

  21. #17
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    This is another subject so probably shouldn't mention it but ummm will do so quickly then ask everybody to ignore me afterwards I do recall something about Paypal used as a payment was a problem. Did that ever get looked into or fixed??
    That is another concern but not specific to international, PayPal has to be setup as the shopping cart in addition to the regular shopping cart. It doesn't happen automatically so check your merchants and if they offer payment by PayPal then ask if it is part of the program.

    On the international there are times when the margin is too slim to commission as the thrid party shipper gets a cut. It is not uncommon to have gross margins of 20%. If a third party shipper takes 10% and affiliate 10% then a network 2-3% you can quickly see that the merchant would be selling at a loss.

  22. #18
    ABW Ambassador JoyUnltd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplebear View Post
    This is another subject so probably shouldn't mention it but ummm will do so quickly then ask everybody to ignore me afterwards I do recall something about Paypal used as a payment was a problem. Did that ever get looked into or fixed??
    The latest ABW thread I could find about Paypal tracking: http://www.abestweb.com/forums/share...ed-131625.html The last few posts deal with that more specifically. Doesn't seem like something that's automatically fixed, either PayPal or Google Checkout but up to the merchant (or AM/OPM to check?) to make sure correct code is implemented.
    Renée
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  24. #19
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Thank you very much both Chuck and JoyUnltd Evidently I guess a lot hasn't been done about it. That thread was in 2010 when members were reporting problems with it. Triggered my memory and found post I had read. It hadn't mentioned PayPal in the title of thread, was just about missing transaction. Here it is:

    http://www.abestweb.com/forums/credi...ml#post1094529

    It had something to do with not clicking a prompt to return to the shopping cart after purchase or it wouldn't be exposed to the tracking code.

    *I'm very sorry socalgirl. Please feel free to delete what I've posted moderators, I shouldn't have gone off topic the way I did and don't want to get off the topic originally asked about. My mistake.

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  26. #20
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Kathy I think this is important to the conversation.

  27. #21
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Thank you Chuck, I didn't want to get away from socalgirl's original question.

    I reread that other thread in regards to Paypal and it seems like what was happening was your earlier explanation said:

    "Actually the order is taken to another cart which factors the shipping, duties and customs fees. It many times will not transfer back to the Thank You page on the merchant site thus NOT firing the pixel. It doesn't override the cookie it completely ignores it."

    If that is happening other than asking the affiliate manager or merchant for each program....is there any way to know if things are tracking correctly? Do you know what percentage of the time Paypal is used? Am guessing if a program uses Paypal and has a high conversion rate is safe to say it is tracking correctly but for a program that may not convert real well and uses Paypal would be hard to pinpoint if that might be the reason it's not converting.

    I might just be over analyzing this lol In regards to the international shipping am assuming then that just asking if international shipping is available isn't really a good enough question. Asking if the tracking is in place to be sure sales are tracking correctly would be the better question.

    Hmm, I shouldn't make these posts later in the day lol Sometimes I confuse myself, even.

  28. #22
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    The easiest way to check is to put something in the cart and then try to ship it internationally. If the cart changes to another URL then I would contact the merchant to see if they commission international orders. That's a lot of work though.

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  30. #23
    Affiliate Manager Grey Defence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick View Post
    Actually the order is taken to another cart which factors the shipping, duties and customs fees. It many times will not transfer back to the Thank You page on the merchant site thus NOT firing the pixel. It doesn't override the cookie it completely ignores it. Its important to verify that the international orders are tracked as in most cases they are not.
    As a merchant that ships internationally from the US, I can tell you that any merchant who argues that the reason they do this is due to the cost of shipping internationally is lying to you. They are doing it to steal your share of the commission, plain and simple.

    Simply put geo-targeting the cart to have the customer pay the right shipping charges based on their location is simple and easy to do. Those merchants that do not do this are either are clueless, don't care or have other motivations.

    With our shopping engine, the moment you drop an item in your cart, your IP address is checked against a worldwide IP location database and your country's (or even city's) shipping rate is automatically loaded. No reason whatsoever not to pay the affiliate.

  31. #24
    Affiliate Manager Grey Defence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoyUnltd View Post
    The latest ABW thread I could find about Paypal tracking: http://www.abestweb.com/forums/share...ed-131625.html The last few posts deal with that more specifically. Doesn't seem like something that's automatically fixed, either PayPal or Google Checkout but up to the merchant (or AM/OPM to check?) to make sure correct code is implemented.
    I hope I am not talking too much. But as a merchant I do have some technical implementation insights to share. Essentially PayPal has two mechanism. The first which is used by many smaller merchants is call Standard and this is where the customer is taken to the PayPal website to complete the payment. You also have Payments Pro where PayPal works in the background while customer makes the payment on the merchant's site though PayPal still does all the processing.

    Both these payment allows callbacks (either by page redirects or API calls) after the successful sale completion so that you can raise a thank you page and fire the tracking pixel.

  32. #25
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Thank you Grey Defence for your post
    I really know very little regarding the various shopping carts, pros and cons to the different ones, etc. and am not sure I'm understanding correctly what you're saying.....

    You said: "As a merchant that ships internationally from the US, I can tell you that any merchant who argues that the reason they do this is due to the cost of shipping internationally is lying to you. They are doing it to steal your share of the commission, plain and simple. "

    Are you saying that it's not necessary for a merchant to have an outside shopping cart like PayPal, Google Checkout, Amazon, etc? or just that if they do there is a way for the merchant to be sure that proper tracking does happen?
    (Please excuse me if this is a dumb question As I said, I really know very little about them)

    I've been a little concerned about the various shopping carts used since I read the post regarding PayPal not tracking. Have no idea if this just happens once in a while or is common to not track.

    Have had a couple of merchants with quite a bit of targeted traffic to them with no sales that has left me wondering about them. One I just looked at has PayPal, Google Checkout (which I do know had some problems in the past) and Amazon as payment options. I haven't heard anything in regards to the Amazon not tracking (only found one result here and it did track) but if all of them would need the customer to go back to the Thank You page in order for tracking to be working, umm that could increase the odds for tracking to not happen.

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