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  1. #1
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Ebates Announces Creation of Performance Marketing Brands & Acquisition of FatWallet
    When I saw this this morning I had to read the subject line a few times ... then it sunk in ... I have no comments on this as i'm still thinking about it and looking at all the scenarios for the future of our industry ....

    Ebates Announces Creation of Performance Marketing Brands & Acquisition of FatWallet and AnyCoupons | Business Wire

    Andy Rodriguez Consulting, Affiliate Program Management and Consulting Services, Since 2001
    www.andyrodriguez.com | E: abw@andyrodriguez.com | P: (888) 931-ANDY (2639) | Skype: affiliatedoctor | AIM & MSN: AffiliateDoctor | Subscribe To Our ABW Forum Posts | Follow me on Twitter | Join Our Affiliate Programs

  2. #2
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Thanks Andy for posting this. After I read it I wondered if this was an attempt by eBates to move their relationship out of California to avoid the tax nexus?

    It seems a logical move to consolidate the benefits of both companies and share resources. Its disappointing though to see FatWallet joined with eBates due to their legacy with toolbar redirects.

  3. #3
    Outsourced Program Manager Jorge - SHOPiMAR's Avatar
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    I saw this too and was sort of not surprised as things change for a reason.

    Boy, who remembers all the drama 5 years ago...

  4. #4
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge - SHOPiMAR View Post
    Boy, who remembers all the drama 5 years ago...
    and the threat from ebates at ASE-Boston, 2008.

  5. #5
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Eat It


    ... Have a banana, have a whole bunch,
    it doesn't matter what you had for lunch. Just Eat It...
    Last edited by Mr. Sal; September 9th, 2011 at 03:55 PM.

  6. #6
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    and the threat from ebates at ASE-Boston, 2008.
    Refresh my memory as to the threats?

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick View Post
    Refresh my memory as to the threats?
    He threatened legal action for any interference with his business...



    X

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  9. #8
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    That's what I thought and it was during the 1st Ethic panel at summit. I am looking for that video, watching the one in Vegas 2009 now:


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  11. #9
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Ethical Issues in Affiliate Marketing panel from Affiliate Summit East 2008

    Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; September 12th, 2011 at 07:36 PM.

  12. #10
    Outsourced Program Manager tmartini's Avatar
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    Disappointed in FatWallet. Didn't think they would lower themselves to becoming part of Ebates. Obviously money talks...
    Todd Martini
    Digital Marketing Manager
    Jones Soda Co.
    Follow Me on Twitter

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  14. #11
    Outsourced Program Manager Angel Djambazov's Avatar
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    Here's that video Chuck:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8O06z-AymI


    Ethical Issues in Affiliate Marketing - The segment you are looking for starts between minute 13-16. Nice casual threat.

    Wrote an op-ed piece titled "The BHOs Won" about the whole acquisition mess on ReveNews if anyone wants to check it out.
    Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; September 9th, 2011 at 09:35 PM. Reason: Tried to embed video but no luck?
    Angel Djambazov
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    OPM for Keen Shoes and Graphicly.com


  15. #12
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    Yes, I remember watching that video and being pissed off. Not only for what he said but also because nobody checked him on what he was saying. In terms of no redirecting since 2001. Because I didn't get into this business until early 2002 and there is an Ebates forum here documenting that behavior. "Glitches" became a joke around here. I downloaded the software at the time, clicked a Gap link and it didn't go to Gap, it went to Ebates. So somebody should have gotten his definition of redirecting. Because what I saw, was redirecting. Also, old members might remember the Ebates Exclusion List. Well that was pretty much an admittance things weren't working as they should. Where affiliates would submit their sites/urls so Ebates/TopMoxie would stand down. Why would you even need to do that if the software was behaving as it should? That should have been brought up and it wasn't.

    Ebates Redirecting on Yahoo! started by Kellie - http://www.abestweb.com/forums/ebate...hoo-32539.html

    FlamingoWorld October 2002 - "With their Moe Money Maker blatanly taking over affiliate links" http://www.abestweb.com/forums/ebate...alk-32501.html

    All kinds of threads in that forum. So the no redirecting since 2001 didn't make much sense.

    But that's old news, Paul is gone and they haven't had the download available for years now.
    Last edited by Trust; September 9th, 2011 at 10:13 PM.


  16. #13
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Here goes nothing, but sometimes you just have to say... WTF!...

    I sure would like to see any comment from: Haiko, Brian, Michael, FatWallet and Ebates, on this final thread... But,...

    I don't think it's going to happen on this thread any time soon because: It's Impossible, but.... That's Life!

    I'm going back to my music...

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  18. #14
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
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    I'm not having a WTF moment, I'm having an AHA moment. Because now some things that happened a couple of years ago are starting to make sense.

    Always remember and never forget, "If it doesn't make any sense, it's a lie."

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  20. #15
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust View Post
    Yes, I remember watching that video and being pissed off. Not only for what he said but also because nobody checked him on what he was saying. In terms of no redirecting since 2001. Because I didn't get into this business until early 2002 and there is an Ebates forum here documenting that behavior. "Glitches" became a joke around here. I downloaded the software at the time, clicked a Gap link and it didn't go to Gap, it went to Ebates. So somebody should have gotten his definition of redirecting. Because what I saw, was redirecting. Also, old members might remember the Ebates Exclusion List. Well that was pretty much an admittance things weren't working as they should. Where affiliates would submit their sites/urls so Ebates/TopMoxie would stand down. Why would you even need to do that if the software was behaving as it should? That should have been brought up and it wasn't.

    Ebates Redirecting on Yahoo! started by Kellie - http://www.abestweb.com/forums/ebate...hoo-32539.html

    FlamingoWorld October 2002 - "With their Moe Money Maker blatanly taking over affiliate links" http://www.abestweb.com/forums/ebate...alk-32501.html

    All kinds of threads in that forum. So the no redirecting since 2001 didn't make much sense.

    But that's old news, Paul is gone and they haven't had the download available for years now.
    I was present at that meeting when that video was recorded ... it was an uproar and we though a fight was going to break out in the room ....

    I had proof positive that the redirects were going on blatantly, I used that proof to boot them back then from the TigerDirect program ... some interesting history here: http://www.abestweb.com/forums/371114-post1.html

    As many have said, lots of time has gone by, things have changed and the industry has changed, some for the good, some for the bad and some really bad but what are you going to do.

    I still agree with Angel's write up - the BHO's have won ... (where is Mike and Charlie when you need them)
    Andy Rodriguez Consulting, Affiliate Program Management and Consulting Services, Since 2001
    www.andyrodriguez.com | E: abw@andyrodriguez.com | P: (888) 931-ANDY (2639) | Skype: affiliatedoctor | AIM & MSN: AffiliateDoctor | Subscribe To Our ABW Forum Posts | Follow me on Twitter | Join Our Affiliate Programs


  21. #16
    Outsourced Program Manager Angel Djambazov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal View Post
    Here goes nothing, but sometimes you just have to say... WTF!...

    I sure would like to see any comment from: Haiko, Brian, Michael, FatWallet and Ebates, on this final thread... But,...
    Well you get half of your wish Mr. Sal. Both Tim Storm from FatWallet and Kevin Johnson the current CEO of eBates responded in the comments of the post.
    Angel Djambazov
    Managing Edtior ReveNews
    OPM for Keen Shoes and Graphicly.com

  22. #17
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Thanks Angel,

    But, now that this time I was able to watch the (entire 1 hour and 21 minutes) video without getting my DSL connection interrupted, I no longer need to see the new comments from the people I mentioned above...

    That video from 2008 you linked to, is enough to confirm what I was thinking yesterday when I decided to post on this thread.

    BTW, this business is no longer a matter of B/W or Grey, it have become make it Green, or stay on the Red...

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  24. #18
    Believe knight01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    I'm not having a WTF moment, I'm having an AHA moment. Because now some things that happened a couple of years ago are starting to make sense.

    Always remember and never forget, "If it doesn't make any sense, it's a lie."
    I had the exact same thought when I saw the news posted. It smelled bad then, and although some people insisted it was roses, we knew it was all BS.
    Someday starts today
    Military Discounts

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  26. #19
    ABW Ambassador JoyUnltd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight01 View Post
    I had the exact same thought when I saw the news posted. It smelled bad then, and although some people insisted it was roses, we knew it was all BS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Always remember and never forget, "If it doesn't make any sense, it's a lie."
    Yep. For me, it's not what was said, it's what wasn't. Read the gaps...the silence is deafening, the truth is there.
    Rene
    Pay no attention to that woman behind the curtain. -Wizardress of Oz

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  28. #20
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Think am thinking the same as others and agree it was what was not said and who was not saying anything as much as what was said, which was insulting when I looked back at it all later. A lot of opinions I had about people were changed because of what was said and probably just as important was what was not said.

    Completely changed how I look at things. Not naive anymore I guess as far as trying to think the best of people or giving them the benefit of the doubt and unlike what's been said, I don't think anything has changed for the good. (different technology, etc has but not the principles or rules, etc. )

    More than anything guess realized back then that the bad guys had won and worse was that it was acceptable to others. Am not being critical of anybody or bad mouthing them, don't know if is because had been away from it all for a while or not but just doesn't stir up the emotion it used to do. Am not complaining either, except for moments once in a while lol realize all the complaining in the world's not gonna change anything.

    Just gonna focus in the future on what I do and forget about what others do. May not like or think what they do is right, fair or whatever but my opinion doesn't mean anything. That was definitely obvious lol

    Mr. Sal I definitely agree with you about business being all about the green. Probably won't have much of that lol but am still gonna keep to my principles and not gonna lower myself or change to be like others just to get more of it. Others can do what they want but I don't want to be like that.

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  30. #21
    ShareASale President/CEO and ABW Veteran Brian - ShareASale's Avatar
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    Mr. Sal,

    Since you asked, here are some brief thoughts.

    I disagree with Angel's post that the "BHOs have won" - but the points are complicated and I think to really see them you have to know Tim and his team.

    FatWallet is an amazing company. Not only are they an inspiration to me professionally but Tim is an inspiration to me personally. A lot of the ways that we at ShareASale operate come out of things that I've been inspired to do based on how Tim does business. Specifically, Tim has, for the better part of 12 years, operated a business that a) His customers love b) his employees love and c) his community can be extremely proud of.

    I think those folks are the winners here.

    The history of Ebates is ugly - and something that I hope they take seriously as something that they have to earn their way out of through their actions. It is true that the majority of their team now is a completely different crew than the past - but this alone does not earn them the trust of the community. I've spoken to them (many months ago long before this and entirely unrelated) with regards to their history and the reaction of the community to new ownership...

    Ultimately, they are all personal decisions... some here and in the community won't let Ebates past their history - and I think that is a perfectly acceptable position. I do think that it is also a perfectly acceptable position to do just that and move forward.

    Ultimately, for this community, I think there are so many options and so many great companies to work with... this is why I disagree with Angel on his "BHOs won" article. Due to movements that mostly began here with Haiko and ABW - there are Networks that police more strictly and some who have no-Software policies, Merchants who maintain quality programs, and Affiliates who have changed their practices or maintained practices that were pro-industry.

    At the end of the day, this industry is wide enough for anyone to choose their own comfort level with complicated issues - and have hundreds of angles and options within that comfort level. We don't all need to become the same exact person with the same values - the diversity and choice is what makes us powerful as an industry.

    That, to me, is a huge victory for everyone here and isn't related to this specific acquisition... it is how the industry has evolved.

    So - personally, I congratulate Tim and his team for creating an amazing company and for this news. And I think we all should. To me it points to an example of a company that can both "do the right thing" and be profitable at the same time... something that I strive to do and I doubt I am alone in that here.
    Thanks,

    Brian Littleton
    President/CEO - ShareASale.com, Inc.

  31. #22
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    A start would be for Kevin Johnson of eBates to publicly announce that they do not employ any BHO's, redirect, reset cookies, pop on organic, paid search or type-in traffic (am I missing any?). Do a press release and include it in their site(s) privacy policy. In Kevin's own words when they disbanded the BHO it accounted for 1% of transactions yet they continue to use a toolbar. Get ride of the toolbar publicly and use the leverage of your sites.

  32. #23
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian - ShareASale View Post
    Mr. Sal,

    Since you asked, here are some brief thoughts.

    I disagree with Angel's post that the "BHOs have won" - but the points are complicated and I think to really see them you have to know Tim and his team.

    FatWallet is an amazing company. Not only are they an inspiration to me professionally but Tim is an inspiration to me personally. A lot of the ways that we at ShareASale operate come out of things that I've been inspired to do based on how Tim does business. Specifically, Tim has, for the better part of 12 years, operated a business that a) His customers love b) his employees love and c) his community can be extremely proud of.

    I think those folks are the winners here.

    The history of Ebates is ugly - and something that I hope they take seriously as something that they have to earn their way out of through their actions. It is true that the majority of their team now is a completely different crew than the past - but this alone does not earn them the trust of the community. I've spoken to them (many months ago long before this and entirely unrelated) with regards to their history and the reaction of the community to new ownership...

    Ultimately, they are all personal decisions... some here and in the community won't let Ebates past their history - and I think that is a perfectly acceptable position. I do think that it is also a perfectly acceptable position to do just that and move forward.
    Thanks for the reply, Brian!

  33. #24
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Rodriguez View Post
    I was present at that meeting when that video was recorded ... it was an uproar and we though a fight was going to break out in the room ....

    I had proof positive that the redirects were going on blatantly, I used that proof to boot them back then from the TigerDirect program ... some interesting history here: http://www.abestweb.com/forums/371114-post1.html

    As many have said, lots of time has gone by, things have changed and the industry has changed, some for the good, some for the bad and some really bad but what are you going to do.

    I still agree with Angel's write up - the BHO's have won ... (where is Mike and Charlie when you need them)

    Mike & Charlie are still here and fighting for justice in politics and ecommerce. Ironic both are controlled by folks with the initials BHO. Maybe I can come up with something in meaningful content for a site name I bought years ago in a brainfart from my constant Adwhore bashing on the cookie cannons... B-a-HO.com

    Meanwhile I posted here a while back I was fighting the Gov't , Congress, DOJ and trial lawyers lobby over the outrage of 1500+ law suits brought against the last remaining USA manufacturers of patented products.... seeking 15 Trillion in fines for expired patent numbers on their products & info sheets. False Marking Case Information - Gray on Claims - A Claim Construction and Patent Law Blog Well Mike & Charlie won and the US Fed Court dismissed their case against Holdup Suspender Company in June. Thye did this to keep Holdup Suspender Company off the front page of DetNews.com and off the Fox News channel and shut my accurate hippocrital rants about this pro-business admin :-)

    The new House in Congress listened to my demands and changed the Patent Marking laws and Obama was forced to sign into law these changes the Patent laws throwing out ALL the 1500+ law suits by the greedy IP lawyers and their hidden Qui-Tam partners last week.

    Feels good doing my part to thwart hundreds of millions going into greedy trial lawyers pockets and enriching Eric Holder's DOJ and US Treasury as payback to a democrat voting block ... and saving the Made in the USA industry. I said I would try to change the US law rather then fighting the greedy lawyers feeding at the trough of injustice. Feels good top get calls from John Boehner and Darrell Issa personally announcing success and the Federal Law changes to me and Charlie... and my web clients. As Charlie said... you get Kudos and these cheapskates throw me a bone... I'm a parrot not a dog!! :-)

    So one of the few major laws signed by Obama were championed by me and Charlie so we are still kickin..
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

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  35. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Wow that old eBates rant thread bring back memories as I pitted TigerDirect against Overstock to see which sales oriented merchant could write the most checks to honest affiliates using cookied links fromt theri own web promotion pages...

    Originally posted by EcomCity.com:

    Am I still your campaign manager for ABW affiliate manager of the year? If so ..I quit since your a shoe-in cinch.

    WebMaster Mike
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Mike, you and me will have a drink one day, don't know where or when, but we will. I will have a few drinks with many of you here...mark my words.

    Mike, just to think you were a keystroke away of being canned by the old Tiger AM ! When i started, he said, this Mike guy, go akead and deactivate him, he's nothing but trouble. He comes into my office today and is speachless, as to how the program has developed. Mike, you were the beacon my friend, you were the affiliate guide that i followed to take the Tiger out of affiliate woods and into the main road.

    Thank you Sir !!

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

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