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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I will maintain the updated list in the anouncements fourm ( http://www.abestweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000018 )

    Haiko

    [ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  2. #2
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    all those merchants use the scumware service? How did you get your info? Do all these merchants advertise through whenu? or is whenu their affiliate who has integrated their links into it's system?

    Thanks for the list, Haiko. you're great!

    [ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

  3. #3
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    Holy cow! I had no idea it was this bad. Where to begin?

    How about Tiger Direct since I do not see the other merchant posters on this list of scumbags.

    How about it Andy? And are they one of the affiliates you (conveniently) left off your top-affiliate lists?

  4. #4
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    I just lifted this quote from the description at CNET which offers "WhenUShop" as a free download:

    "WhenUShop appears only when a user goes to a major shopping site and disappears at all other times."

    So, the folks behind WhenUShop are positioning themselves to grab commissions AFTER the visitor has already arrived at the merchant through someone else's promotions.

    Yes, "parasite" is definitely a better word that "predator" to describe this!

    Some merchants likely don't realize the implications here. And some might not care which affiliate gets a commission, as long as a sale is made. But they should think about this: in the case of visitors who were brought to the site by the merchant's own promotions, this setup would grab commissions that should rightfully remain in the merchant's own pocket.

    Meanwhile, CJ remains silent about principles ...

    Elisabeth Archambault

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    WhenU is obviously one of those mysterious "super affiliates" catered too by the big 3 networks. They feed the best performing merchants to them on a platter and enable these merchant posers to not only get away with it ..but also encourage copycats to pad their own pockets. The likes of linkjump.com ( CJ merchants) and their sister site promoting Linkshare merchants are just ripp off artists looking like vStores or shopping directories to conn newbees into thinking it's an easy way to get to affiliate nervanna. Their is one CJ program thta needs to be flamed.

  6. #6
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    well, yuck. I just finished writing letters to two of my TOP PERFORMERS which are on that list. I'd hate to drop them, but if they continue their affiliation with WhenU -- hey, they can be replaced.

  7. #7
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    No bloody wonder my site is selling nowt now even though I am sending about three times more traffic than I used to. All my major merchants are on that list. SH*T!!

    I guess I will be sending some mails this weekend.

    Sod it I'm sending them now. I have tried to find the two names to address them to (I think one was ceo@wherever) but cannot (maybe I am tired) could anybody refresh me please

    [ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: Gordon ]

  8. #8
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    Gordon, I just checked at CNET and there have been 8000+ WhenU downloads. Compare that with probably 25 million for Ezula. The principle here is of enormous significance for affiliates, but WhenU's actual numbers are small. For now...

    Meanwhile, look for a different reason for your sales slump. WhenU's tentacles are still small enough that they're probably not the ones to blame.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    My best merchants aren't on the list, but a few on the list are merchants that I market. Time for some emails, including ones to my "good" merchants who are not on the list to applaud "clean" advertising techniques.

  10. #10
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I only spotted one of my current merchants on the list. I guess this is what they're doing with the money they used to spend on TV advertising!

    I wonder what kind of a deal WhenU is giving these places, anyway? By the looks of that list, it's either stellar/cheap (judging by the lenghth of it), or outrageously expensive (judging by the size of a lot of the merchants on it)!

    An interesting list, but if it really has only a few downloads compared to Ezula, I'm not going to stay up thinking about it.

    Most surprising name on list: Amazon.com With such a big name, I wouldn't have thought they'd still feel such a need for traffic as to resort to this...

    Least surprising name: X10! Need I say more?

  11. #11
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Gordon--it was affiliates@merchant.com that was mentioned in that thread (I believe it's the thread from Todd Crawford. I forgot the title of the thread, though.)

    I can't say how well it'll work, but that's what it was!

  12. #12
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I wonder what kind of a deal WhenU is giving these places, anyway?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Odds are, no deal at all. The probability is that WhenU or other individuals have signed up as affiliates and the programs have no idea their product is being marketed in this manner.

    Which is what makes it critical (since CJ won't put the kabosh on this) for affiliates to contact the merchants and let them know they're being listed on a WhenU blacklist.

    If the merchants then continue to show up on the list, then they're scum. But until they have knowledge of the situation, they're just ignorant.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    The more I think about it, the more this thing doesn't make sense for the merchants either, as pointed out by Elisabeth. If a merchant usually gets free traffic from google or other SE/directory listings, they will now have to pay commissions for the sales of anyone with this program installed. I think this should be pointed out to any merchant who knowingly has this bugger as an affiliate.

    But it also means that CJ not taking a stand on it is very, very ugly. Let's see, this program screws the affiliate who got the eyeballs to the merchant site, and it screws the merchant who got the eyeballs to their site on their own. The only two who make profits are the program owner(s) and CJ/third party.

    C'mon CJ can't you see the headlines in Allan Gardyne's newsletter: "CJ takes stand against publisher who use parasitic practices"?

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    Actually, there are only three merchants on that list I market, only one of which gets any significant traffic from me.

    Thus the path of least resistance is to kill their links and drop them a note why.

  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The probability is that WhenU or other individuals have signed up as affiliates and the programs have no idea their product is being marketed in this manner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Being marketed? Marketed??

    There is no way that what WhenU is doing can be called that.

    They are thieves, positioning themselves to steal commissions from us after WE have done the marketing.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  16. #16
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Jimbo,

    Shawn

    Thank you for your post. I would like to add that as of 12-09-01, TigerDirect is no longer affiliated with Whenu or Savenow. We have cancelled their affiliate status and have instructed them to remove any links and any reference to us on their website.

    Whenu was auto approved by Tiger last year on May 11, 2000, they have generated a total of 3 sales and have earned a total of $1.08 since that time. According to BeFree reports, No affiliate sales have been tracked back to Whenu since July of last year - hence none of our affiliates have been affected by our prior association with Whenu and their software since July of 2000.

    If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me and I will answer.

    Thank you,

    AR


    -----Original Message-----
    From: clubmom_affiliates [mailto:scollins@clubmom-inc.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
    To: TigerDirectAffiliatePartners@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [TigerDirectAffiliatePartners] (unknown)


    Hi everybody,

    How would you like it if you worked hard to bring a visitor to your
    site, and when they got there, a pop-up ad appeared, that visitor
    clicked, made a purchase, and you got nothing?

    This scenario is happening to affiliate referred clicks every day,
    due to a download called SaveNow. When somebody downloads the WhenU
    shopping toolbar from WhenU.com, SaveNow is also added to their
    computer.

    When somebody with SaveNow surfs the Internet, SaveNow pops up ads on
    Web sites. If the surfer clicks that pop-up, the referring affiliate
    is no longer the referring affiliate. WhenU will get credit for any
    purchase.

    And when the user uninstalls the WhenU shopping toolbar, the SaveNow
    program stays on their computer.

    I'd suggest to anybody that has downloaded the WhenU shopping toolbar
    to uninstall it, as well as uninstalling SaveNow.

    If you shop on the Internet, give credit to the right site. Wouldn't
    you want the same courtesy?

    Uninstall SaveNow
    1) START (the button in the bottom, left of your monitor)
    2) Choose SETTINGS
    3) Choose CONTROL PANEL
    4) Choose Add/Remove Programs
    5) Select SaveNow
    6) Click on Add/Remove

    Uninstall WhenUShop
    1) START (the button in the bottom, left of your monitor)
    2) Choose PROGRAMS
    3) Choose WHENU
    4) Choose Uninstall

    Happy Holidays,
    Shawn Collins
    Director of Affiliate Marketing
    ClubMom, Inc.
    200 Madison Avenue, 6th Floor
    New York, New York 10016
    tel 646.435.6513
    fax 646.435.6600 http://www.clubmomaffiliates.com


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimbo2002:
    Holy cow! I had no idea it was this bad. Where to begin?

    How about Tiger Direct since I do not see the other merchant posters on this list of scumbags.

    How about it Andy? And are they one of the affiliates you (conveniently) left off your top-affiliate lists?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  17. #17
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    Why to go Andy ...

    One down ??? to go [img]tongue.gif[/img]

    We need more Merchants to take a stand!!

    Haiko ... Will you update the blacklist as the good news comes in??

    Regards,
    Dave

    [ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: dhelle ]

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Andy,

    <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif>

    -----------------

    Dave,

    Doing it now!

    ----------------
    All,

    Lets point the merchants to post in this thread that they will no longer affiliate with WhenU!

    Haiko

    Haiko

    [ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  19. #19
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    Andy,

    Thanks for letting us know about Tiger's position on this.

    I have been very impressed with your work as affiliate manager (thankful there are any good programs left at Befree). Looking forward to product linking.

  20. #20
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    Damn, no wonder we weren't getting many sales recorded at UrbanQ...over 46,000
    visitors and 7 sales. Damn When-U coupon pops up on almost every click thru.

    But, in a good way it's just another nail in the coffin of Linkshare, BeFree, and CJ.

    Haiko, howabout we set up a boycott page and list all the merchants and send a PR piece to all the worldwide media listing all the abuses.

    I'll even pay to have it sent out. I belong to a media network where PR pieces go out to
    over 15,000 reporters.

    We might just be able to change things for the better for everyone.

    If we do it fast, we'd hit these cheating scum right where it hurts negative publicity during Christmas sales and create a huge wave. It would be REAL NEWS.

    The headline of the PR piece would be something like this:

    500,000+ Websites Boycott 314 Major Online Merchants And Ad Networks For Fraudulent Business Practices.

    The merchants response would be to threaten to sue. My response would be "make my day."

    If the Wall Street Journal picks it up, the phones will be ringing off the hook at all the company headquarters from investors in all the public companies on the list.

    If we be nice about it and write each company, the standard response would be what was sent from Pet Smart. Corporate BS.

    When CEO start getting calls from major investors you would be surprised how fast things really happen.

    If you create the page and host it, I'll do all the pr stuff and take all the flack.

    I'd host it but, I am co-located so I'm sure someone would call and get the page blocked at our hosting place.

    We could say Merry Christmas in a big way.

    Let me know.

  21. #21
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Jimbo, et all...

    Product linking while not "officially" announced yet, is already available on reporting.net for Tiger. I have tested and enabled product text linking, search form linking and i'm testing product linking as we speak. I should be comfortable with the tweaking by Friday or Monday latest if nothing messes up with us or BeFree.

    I am posting our TOP 50 Sku's on our Yahoo affiliate group today, you can see whats selling hot, create a top 10 text link list and watch the sales come in. If you haven't joined our Yahoo group yet, you can join at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TigerD...liatePartners/

    To your success !!!




    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimbo2002:
    Andy,

    Thanks for letting us know about Tiger's position on this.

    I have been very impressed with your work as affiliate manager (thankful there are any good programs left at Befree). Looking forward to product linking.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  22. #22
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Fred,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Haiko, howabout we set up a boycott page and list all the merchants and send a PR piece to all the worldwide media listing all the abuses.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    http://MerchantBoycott.com it will be!
    (DNS needs time to propagate)

    -----------------
    Andy,

    Fantastic! TY!

    Haiko

  23. #23
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    Elizabeth,
    As of December9,2001 http://whenu.com/news/news10.html

    "Naider said the company, which launched the original version of WhenUShop in September, has registered approximately 50,000 users."

    Karin

  24. #24
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    Andy, I clicked on your link to Tiger Yahoo Groups and WhenU is on there with a pop-up going to DealTime. Also just on the side bar, link going to your site with the WhenU affiliate code/

    I must be misunderstanding something here!

    Karin

  25. #25
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    Haiko,

    Alright...time to lock and load.

    I have to go teach two classes tonight, so as soon as I get back home I will commence to writing up the PR piece and email you a copy.

    Here are some ideas for the page...post every dirty trick that could possibly be used to jack affiliates around...a list of
    ways we have been getting the shaft.

    I.e. zero and 1 day cookies, 800#'s, batch updating, removing and replacing tracking at peak traffic times, arbitrarily dumping affiliates when they get close to the payment threshold, the good old we just not paying, the various scumware tricks, third party tracking that dosen't track sales when the ad networks say they do.

    You know the routines - as Mike from Ecom to come up with his ways.

    If we post ALL the tricks and such, then once the page has been posted we can send
    the FBI, Justice Department and all the members of Congress there. Seems next year quite a few of them are up for re-election.

    Viva la revolucion.

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