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  1. #1
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    I just spent about an hour testing a fellow aff's site which happened to be dedicated to shoes, taking screenshots, copying cookies, and letting the victimized aff aware. This is completely unacceptable! I got whenu pop ups and behinds on about 5 out of 8 merchants (and one of the 3 that didn't get popped on, the merchants site wouldn't load).

    I don't care that the pops didn't happen on the aff's site, but happened on the merchants site. That is total BS for saying whenu is in compliance! I don't care if the Pope (no religous offense meant..insert anyone's name associated with virtue) wrote the COC. The end result is the same, the affiliate who brought the buyer to the merchant lost the commission. And that just isn't right. I don't know if the lack of pops on the aff's site has anything to do with the recent COC compliance complaints, but merchants wake up. The pops happen immediately upon landing on the your site. You have no way of knowing if the content/info provided by the true referring aff would have driven the customer to buy anymore than that whenu pop up. The chance never happened as a big discount was thrown in their face as soon as they landed on your site.

    The merchant's who whenu popped up on where:
    shoes.com
    shoebuy
    zappos
    rebeez
    footsmart

    All info has been forwarded to the aff this involved. I tell you I felt really bad for this poor affiliate who obviously spent a lot of time developing the site for the merchants.

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  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    BLFH,

    You are just awesome for putting your own time and efforts to fight on this scumbags.

    Thank you!

    I feel bad just reading this post and it's just not right not right at all!

    The people that inbolve on this parasitic crap are just heartless. if I could think of a word that will really fit on these scums I would be so happy to post.
    But I can't think of any word that would fit perfect.

    I wish that all the crap will come with these scumbags from now on!

    If I could just do some freaking voodoo stuff I would put a spell on all these buggers!

    Thank you BLFH for your support and extra time to fight against this #@Q%^^#$!

    ------------------------------
    What does the COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commissions.
    ------------------------------
    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-) !

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador
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    BLFH,


    I am curious...

    Did they overwrite or intercept an affiliate's link?

    Did the pop-up occur anywhere on the affiliate's site or just on the merchants?

    thanks in advance,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
    http://www.revtrends.com
    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

  4. #4
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Wayne,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't care that the pops didn't happen on the aff's site, but happened on the merchants site. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The direct click to the merchant was from an aff site.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Did they overwrite or intercept an affiliate's link?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Knowing how you are a stickler for wording Wayne, not sure how you are defining overwrite and intercept. Clarify and I'll be happy to answer.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  5. #5
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Nova,

    I didn't spend nearly the time I'm sure that affiliate did building and promoting that site.

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  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    A true story ...

    The other day, I went to pricegrabber.com (a WhenU company) and clicked on their coupon link for Shoes.com, as soon as the page loaded a WhenU popup for footsmart came up.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  7. #7
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    A true story.....

    I went to pricegrabber the other day and clicked on a whenuflora link (whenu's branded affiliate flower site) and immediately got a whenu pop up for another florist site. Forget which one.

    This is what you call covering your bases. They get a commission no matter what.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador
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    BLFH,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Knowing how you are a stickler for wording Wayne, not sure how you are defining overwrite and intercept. Clarify and I'll be happy to answer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Fair enough.

    Was the surfer able to get to the merchant site without having the affiliate ID replaced with the WhenU affiliate tracking ID during and or immediately after the click?

    I understand there was a pop-up on the MERCHANT site, but was there any actual direct interference of the affiliate link from click to landing on the merchant site.

    And, as I understand it, the pop-up occured after the merchant site was reached?


    best,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
    http://www.revtrends.com
    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

  9. #9
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Was the surfer able to get to the merchant site without having the affiliate ID replaced with the WhenU affiliate tracking ID during and or immediately after the click?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes. Which means that in most liklihood, this would not be deemed a COC violation. The whenu ad had to be clicked on for the redirect to happen and the cookie to be overwritten.

    Which is what lead me to write this whole paragraph:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't care that the pops didn't happen on the aff's site, but happened on the merchants site. That is total BS for saying whenu is in compliance! I don't care if the Pope (no religous offense meant..insert anyone's name associated with virtue) wrote the COC. The end result is the same, the affiliate who brought the buyer to the merchant lost the commission. And that just isn't right. I don't know if the lack of pops on the aff's site has anything to do with the recent COC compliance complaints, but merchants wake up. The pops happen immediately upon landing on the your site. You have no way of knowing if the content/info provided by the true referring aff would have driven the customer to buy anymore than that whenu pop up. The chance never happened as a big discount was thrown in their face as soon as they landed on your site.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I understand there was a pop-up on the MERCHANT site, but was there any actual direct interference of the affiliate link from click to landing on the merchant site.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No. See paragraph above.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I understand there was a pop-up on the MERCHANT site<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    and then you said
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And, as I understand it, the pop-up occured after the merchant site was reached?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Put down the beer Wayne. You answered your own question. I've answered 3 times now, so I won't repeat myself further.

    But I will say again. I don't care that what loophole ridden COC may have been written by the networks to cater to this type of action (this is nothing new with the way WhenU operates), it isn't RIGHT!

    My remarks were also addressed to merchants, not the networks. IMO, the COC was drafted by the networks to allow just this type of activity. Just my opinion of course.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    BLFH,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Put down the beer Wayne<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No beer for me...not this late.

    Thanks for the clarification. I honestly don't know what applications are doing day-to-day. I simply don't have time to keep up with it so I rely on others doing testing. Thanks for the time you spent testing.

    As I read it WhenU is COC compliant. Networks are loath to stick their necks into the territory of the merchant's domain (and they are financially disincented to do so). They very much should be policing what happens if a click is redirected or changed "in transit". There is no excuse for that.

    However, how far should or can a network legally go in regulating what an affiliate can do? Where do they draw the line? This was another topic that went on behind closed doors. I won't go into details, but in general I think networks realize they cannot police the distribution of software or the decoupling of installations- it is beyond their domain of influence. They don't have the resources or abilities to regulate it. As I mentioned in a post a few weeks ago I recently got a call from the U.S. Senate and THEY are looking into the issue of disclosure and software distrubution practices with MUCH interest. Don't be surprised if you see a future bill that specifically targets the methodology in which software authors may use when distributing software.

    I have to agree with the COC here, WhenU is compliant and the merchant has to make a choice whether WhenU activity is beneficial or not beneficial to their business. (Depends on their business I guess.) They also have to take into account how working with WhenU will impact their affiliate base at large. (i.e. it can stall organic affiliate growth).

    Now the question is why do so many merchants continue to work with WhenU? I know that they know the issues...you would have to be a moron or completely unclued not to know about this issue. I can guess at why- they like the taste of reaching customers on other people's sites. Plain and simple. The sales taste good, even if they are popping up on their own sites.

    In terms of the COC, I think it was drafted to ensure networks didn't strangle the choices of merchants but still provide some protection to affiliates. Afterall merchants are their lifeblood and merchants don't like being dictated too. Networks aren't about to shoot themselves in the foot.



    best,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
    http://www.revtrends.com
    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

  11. #11
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    No beer? Has it now moved to scotch time? You know I'm just joking.

    Tell you what, why don't you start a new thread with your post and I'll flog that dead horse regarding the merits of the COC with you til the cows come home. (could only work in 2 animal cliches there). That way this thread can stay on track. There are points there worthy of discussion regarding the COC itself.

    Now as far as what I saw tonight. I know it's COC compliant. That was point. That's why my message was for MERCHANTS to wake up. And yep, you are right, I can't imagine they aren't aware of exactly what is going on.

    But as far as whenu goes, which is operating in a fashion that is deemed COC compliant so will continue and is happening on merchant's sites that I know are aware of the situation, I have found there are particular keywords/products that whenu particularly likes. My whenu db which triggers the pops is now up to 4.39MB (that's text of urls and keywords). If I want a whenu pop, I can usually get one in under 30 secs. As I do more and more testing I'm seeing which types of merchants, products, keywords are most likely to yield activation of Whenu.

    The purpose of my post was to let other affiliates know that shoes is evidently one of them. There are many affiliates here at ABW that promote shoes heavily. As you have said many times in the past, it's up to the affiliates to decide who they will and will not partner with. The more information affiliates have about what is really going on, then the better educated business decision they can make. They will be able to make a more informed decision about how they may want to run their sites and what actions they may want to take.

    That was the purpose and intent of this thread. If you are promoting shoes, whenu is all over it, you probably are having sales diverted on the merchant's site, don't look to the networks to do a thing about it, these are the merchants I saw it happening with tonight, and finally for them to do what they will with the information.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  12. #12
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> clicked on their coupon link for Shoes.com, as soon as the page loaded a WhenU popup for footsmart came up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Is this really a COC issue?

    Why not encourage Shoes.com to complain to Footsmart about one of Footsmart's affiliates interfering with their business?

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    Whenu loves not only shoes but;
    whenudecorate.com
    whenushop.com
    whenubuy.com
    whenuinvest.com
    whenutravel.com
    whenucook.com
    and...
    getclocksync.com
    don't know if anything else is included in the download.
    and there's plenty more!

    I've noticed a steep drop-off in shoes sales in the past few months and didn't know whether this was a seasonal thing or something more sinister at work...guess I'm getting zapped too!

    "I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 reasons why it doesn't work"
    Thomas Edison

  14. #14
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    I so much appreciate the information, BLFH - I am fairly new to this and before coming to this forum I had no clue this went on.

  15. #15
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    There is a COC issue here in this sense. Although whenu did not pop up on the aff's site in this case, whenu does pop up on aff's sites. I also saw that happening tonight elsewhere. THAT is a clear violation of the COC and the networks have received COC complaints regarding those clear violations. Yet whenu retains their affiliate status. If they did not have their affiliate status because of the clear noncompliance with the COC, then the pops that happened in this shoe incident where the pop contained whenu's aff ID would never have happened.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

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