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  1. #1
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I had a $71.00 commission reversed [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] two days after it was posted so I sent this to the merchant, and their reply is also here. Do you think it is genuine or just a load of waffle?

    I also sent a copy to fraud@CJ but up to now have had no reply. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    ----- My e-mail to them-----
    From: Gordon& Pauline
    To: xxxxxxxxxx.com
    Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:16 PM
    Subject: RE: Reversed transaction


    Dear sir/madam
    I am writing to ask of your explanation for the reversed transaction below.

    "Original Transaction ID xxxxxx
    Original Transaction Type Sale
    Correction Reason Invalid CC"

    I fail to understand how you can possibly in this day and age completely process a credit card and not know instantly that it is an invalid card. Would you be so kind as to explain this to me as at this moment in time I am inclined to removed all the links to your site instead of putting more on in place of your competitors as I was contemplating prior to this transaction.

    I look forward to your reply
    regards
    Gordon Skevy
    YouTrek
    Gordon@youtrek.com
    CJ affiliate ID xxxxxxx http://www.youtrek.com http://www.backpackingmall.com




    Visit http://www.YouTrek.com for your travel information.

    Visit http://www.BackpackingMall.com for your travel and outdoors equipment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    ---------their reply ----------

    Hi Gordon,

    We actually are not currently processing credit cards in real time through our shopping cart. We have had some periodic problems with Verisign and their real time processing (orders sometimes hang when their network becomes busy, causing us to lose orders alltogether). In part for this reason, orders with invalid or stolen credit cards can and often do get through the checkout process as they are not processed at that stage. We are currently working on blocking certain IP addresses which have proven to be the source of much fraud. We receive several orders daily from Indonesia. Unfortunately every order originating from this region involves a stolen credit card - without exception!

    If Verisign can work out their network issues, we may turn real time authorization back on. This would address a portion of the fraud but many of the crooks out there do in fact have valid credit cards and unfortunately these can only be caught (and then reversed) through close human scrutiny.

    We appreciate your understanding. You have done a great job with your sites and it is our hope that we may continue our mutually beneficial relationship.

    Jim xxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxx.com

    email xxxxxxx.com
    xxx-xxx-xxxx
    xxx-xxx-xxxx
    xxx-xxx-xxxx fax

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I left the merchants info out just in case it is genuine

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Hmmm, I think the email should of went something like this.

    We have stopped using Verisign because they were able to distinguish between a good credit card and bad credit card, thus making it impossble for us to stick it to the affiliate. <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon38.gif>

    Whats the merchants 3 month reversal rate Gordon???

  3. #3
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    These are the figures just taken from CJ

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Network Earnings
    3 month EPC $4.08
    7 day EPC $9.12
    Charge-back percent 31.30% <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They have the highest reversal rate of any merchants I use. I have only just recently started to promote them and this sale was my first for them.

    I also forgot to add I went to their site yesterday and tried to do a transaction with a false credit card number and imediately I got a message telling me the card was invalid. I cannot understand how if this happens with my attempted transaction it takes them 2 days to find out

  4. #4
    Newbie
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    Until you said that, I was almost persuaded they were innocent. Its a nice email they sent you - they must have had a lot of practice. I think you should drop them and invite them to get in touch once they have sorted out their credit card verification problems.

    While you keep accepting what you get dished out, they'll keep on serving it up.


    f

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
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    I agree...

    I've always said there are power in numbers...

    Affiliates have to stick together and let these shady merchants know we dont put up with the lame excuses anymore...

    The good ones will prosper ... The shady ones will go by the way-side.

    Go ...... Merchant-Watch!!!

    Regards,
    Dave

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador
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    Not to defend them without knowing them, but... some types of invalid cards are easy to trap without standard verification -- e.g., wrong amount of numbers for a particular card. Other types of fraud (stolen cards, generated numbers) can absolutely take longer -- particularly if the card owner has yet to discover there is a problem and nothing has been reported.

    So, dependent on how you falsified the info, it is entirely possible that they are trapping the most bogus types of fraud server-side, but are not actually processing the card.

    And, LOTS of companies don't process online, just give the appearance that they do while their web site masks a great big sneaker-net... big and small companies do this -- I know I -- worked for a billion-dollar-a-year one that did and our MUCH larger competitors also admitted this practice (in a Forrester report).

    Could, of course, just be that they're fraudulent or they have a biz that is a prominent target for fraudulent activity...

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
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    Could be...

    But the charge-back rate should be a borometer.

    I often wonder why I have Merchants that continue to to perform day in day out with charge-back rates of 0 - 10%. Dont they deal with the same variables? I think so.

    True.. Some Merchants are more prone to fraud with high ticket items ... say consumer electronics ... but overall .. If a merchant has a high charge-back ... I smell tuna [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Regards,
    Dave

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Gordon,

    A bogus CC is an easy momentary verification (can be done via javascript).

    I have to agree with Packy .... It is their way of saying they want to "give it to affiliates" ... No one can blame Verisign ... that's like calling a safe deposit box vulnerable!

    I smell a 30 day old tuna in the Florida sun! :eek:

    ---------------------

    Dave,

    Less than 2 weeks till MW [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Haiko

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If a merchant has a high charge-back ... I smell tuna <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Agreed. I was already to sign up with one merchant (don't recall their name) when I was on a product search and they had the perfect product... then I discovered they had a 100% chargeback rate -- 100%?!?!?!

    Run away, run away...

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    You can smell a 30 day old tuna in the Florida sun ... A mile away [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Dave

  11. #11
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the input you guys, I have taken it on board.
    I have just written back to him with this (below). I will keep you posted as to the outcome.

    I guess I do not want to give up $70.00 without a fight. I will also be very interested in Verisigns reply if I do not get a satisfactory answer from Bob.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Hi Bob
    I also forgot to add I went to your site yesterday and tried to do a transaction with a false credit card number and immediately I got a message telling me the card was invalid. I cannot understand how if this happens with my attempted transaction, it takes you 2 days to find out, and even more how come you accept false credit cards from some people and not others? I have to admit it seems to me like you are not too keen on paying the commissions out.

    Another thing I cannot understand how is it Verisign (a very reputable company) takes two days to let you know? I am thinking about forwarding your e-mail to Verisign and see what their reaction is.
    I look forward to your reply
    regards
    Gordon Skevy
    YouTrek
    Gordon@youtrek.com
    CJ affiliate ID xxxxxx http://www.youtrek.com http://www.backpackingmall.com
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador
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    Gordon,
    Just to follow up, some shopping cart programs, etc have a means of detecting false credit card numbers. Something doesn't add up in the order of the numbers (or however they do it). It doesn't mean that it is a valid or invalid card, just your numbers didn't match up for some reason. Did you try perhaps an old credit card that you have closed the account? Did you try a credit card that is maxxed out but has a valid number? If what they are saying is true, these two scenarios would go through when you made a purchase, but would be declined when they process the card. I think the reply they sent you is pretty valid, and makes sense (and I've heard that Verisign server problem before). Many companies don't process real-time, and it's not unusual. However, even my shopping cart software will detect a credit card number that either doesn't have enough numbers or doesn't match the expiration of the card.

    Tom Pyles

    [ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: TH Media ]

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador
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    that aint a tuna. that is my sales results of my fishing site

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