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  1. #1
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    Way back in the stone ages of the internet there used to be a list of "BAD" affiliate sites - the fraud and scammer types - that all the adult webmasters went to before they approved your site. If you you were listed on this site you were in effect blackballed from almost every adult site that paid.

    Maybe we should do something like this for merchants...and everyone join in to expose
    these crooks.

    Now I know lots of people will be scared to participate because of legal ramifications.

    However I am prepared to host such a site and take all the legal flack the listed merchants want to throw my way, provided people publicize the site and send a zillion
    people to it.

    In fact, I welcome any merchant or adnetwork
    to sue me for telling the truth. Make my day.

    I will craft the list so it explains the why
    it exists and I can distribute it to 250,000, but we need to see to it that millions learn about it.

    We can combine it with Haiko's merchant watch and start a grass root rebellion.

    If we can start a boycott of cheating merchants now...we can put a huge dent in their Xmas business and get a ton of publicity.

    All we need is a list of the fraudulent merchants or ad networks and how they perpretrate their frauds and we can rattle some cages.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
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    Dave,

    We owe people for one reason and one reason only - we were ripped off by merchants.

    We paid everyone for over two years to the tune of close to $200k exactly what they were owed. It is only when we got stiffed by the likes of Bluelight, All Business, ePilot and another 25 or so merchants from Linkshare, about the same number of merchants from beFree and $45k from Free Shop that we had to make a choice stay in business and try to collect in court of pay everyone 5 cents on the dollar. And so far we have received $12,500 in settlements and we paid $11,500 of that people we owed who have been in our program.

    I am certain I will win enough in court to pay everyone and that's what we will do.

    End of story.

    So Dave, unless you can figure out a way to make turn rocks into money (we have more than enough rocks here in Vegas) so we can pay you and others, shut the **** up and wait like everyone else is doing.

    No one is getting rich on this end. If we go BK you lose and we all lose so whatever we make that keeps NetBiz going means we all stand to win if the juries decide in our favor.

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Fred,

    You realize any such list [of publishers] is a blatant violation of all privacy rights garanteed by the merchant agreement, their site and the third party solution provider!<IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/nono.gif>
    Haiko

  4. #4
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    Haiko,

    Yes...but since they have all violated the agreements first and since almost every agreement is illegal in the first place (due to deceptive business practices, lack of full disclosure and they are not binding unless you actually get paid) it would only matter in very rare instances.

    The first amendment superscedes any of their attempts at forcing me to keep quiet. No matter what they may put in their so called agreements, there is no law against publishing the truth.

    Now Linkshare & BeFree & CJ might drop me but since they owe me it will only look like
    they are punishing me because then they won't have to pay me. So let's go play in court and see what happens.

    And what everyone thinks is not necessarily true when you get inside the court room. A lot of what the merchants and their lawyers
    say is pure BS and drastically changes when it gets to court.

    How many Snare & BF merchants dropped affiliates when they got close to reaching the magic $50 level. All I need is copies of
    all of the records and I flat guarantee I can prove that it was all done on purpose to keep from paying out millions.

    And from there it's a simple matter of turning the records over to the justice department and watch how the RICO laws start to kick some merchants and adnetwork asses.

    I can see it now...the JP would be drooling over the amount of fines they could collect from all the merchants if they had all the evidence handed to them so they didn't have to spend $$ to get it. - When the JP says to pay us hundreds of millions of dollars in fines or spend 20 years in the big house check books open.

    And one other thing - assembling all the records and assessing the potential damagies would cost so much money as to make it cheaper to settle plus the negative publicity would hurt financially like hell when times are tough.


    So let's rock 'n roll.

  5. #5
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    I never heard of your affiliate program, but if you are promising to pay affiliates with money you do not have, then you are/were a scammer just like the other deadbeats.

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Fred,

    The Listing of rogue affiliates is a nightmare waiting to happen!

    Since you are a merchant with CJ ... you may have a list of such unscrupulous affiliates but it would be you who would be sued not only by CJ but the affiliate themselves. I'll get the FBI on IDT or other BS merchants any day!

    But ... thousands of privacy cases across the nation? or affiliates "with a grudge" going after me ... NO WAY!

    Haiko

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Joey's Avatar
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    Haiko,
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Maybe we should do something like this for merchants...and everyone join in to expose
    these crooks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The affiliates were only an example.
    He's talking about listing bad merchants!


    I think it's a great idea. But I'd also like to see a list of the exceptionally good merchants. This way we'd be promoting the good and fighting the bad.

    -Joey

  8. #8
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    Good point Joey...a list of good as well as bad would go a long way to establish credibility.

  9. #9
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    Haiko,

    A list of bad merchants and good merchants
    not good or bad affiliates.

    We can have a separate listing for Dave -
    under the title dumber than rock salt.

    The reason alot of people have not been paid by ad networks is that the networks haven't gotten paid. We fall in that category.

    Only we are willing to at least try to collect in court.

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Joey,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Way back in the stone ages of the internet there used to be a list of "BAD" affiliate sites - the fraud and scammer types - that all the adult webmasters went to before they approved your site. If you you were listed on this site you were in effect blackballed from almost every adult site that paid.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am referring to the that aspect ....For I am doing Merchant Watch! and affiliate watch is a legal no no!

    Merchant watch will also have the best, and the worst merchants listed (by affiliate reviews)!

    ------------
    Fred,

    I, also, have a method to sue merchants, via a legal fund, but that is way after it is up and running! FBI will get them caught ... but doesn't get our money ... and unless I am incorrect, that is why we are all here [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Haiko

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Joey's Avatar
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    Haiko,
    I agree 100% that a list of bad affiliates would be a huge legal mistake. Merchant Watch sounds like it will be a great help to us affiliates. I look forward to seeing it in action.

    Professor,
    You suggested combining your list with Merchant Watch. If Haiko's list is made entirely by affiliate reviews, I'd say that won't be nessesary.

    Provided that the Merchant Watch list represents our views as affiliates (and it sounds like it will), I say we wait until that list is active and then promote the heck out of it.

    -Joey

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Joey,

    <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif>

    and MW will be 100% affiliate reviews (with constraints:

    <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> no multiple posting against merchant in time period from IP
    <LI> IPs all Logged from MEMBERS only
    <LI> Merchants are allowed to answer "complaints"
    <LI> FBI (Computer Crimes Division) WILL be brought in for extreme cases
    <LI> Affiliates will finally have a co-op "Legal Fund" for action against major scamers - based on affiliate voting!
    <LI> And much more![/list]

    I am sick and tired of getting shafted ... and I will demand all third party solution providers to comply with the daily dumps of information and those who don't (for alledged "Privacy" issues [AHEM, I have spoken to my lawyers]) will pay the price!

    We pay for PPC listings .... our time is money ...why can't we MAKE them track .... and PAY? (I'm gonna love the secret shopper [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ) .

    Trust me Joey ... I am covering just about all bases on MW ... and will not waste my time on it nor custom programming dollars on it if it wasn't going to be the best tool for all of publishers!

    Haiko

  13. #13
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    Haiko,

    I can't wait...the sooner you get MW up the sooner I will send thousands of people to go look at the site and tell them to boycott all the listed merchants.

    Webmaster Mike has enough data to crucify all sorts of merchants. So do I. What you need is for affiliates to tell their stories in say in four or five lines of text.

    Something like.

    Bluelight (K-Mart) agreed to pay $.50 per click thru to send them traffic. I sent them 25,000 unique visitors and earned $12,500. They never paid me or any other LInkshare affiliate. (your real email address)

    I think a boycott site would go well with MW.
    If 1 million people got email about MW and millions of others visted a site telling them to boycott various merchants and why, things will change fast.

    I flat out told Steve Meeser to sue me if he didn't like me bad mouthing him and Linkshare. He ran and hid becasue he knew he would lose and the flack would give me so much data to go after all his merchants that such aq suit would be the biggest business scandal since Teapot Dome.

  14. #14
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    You have got me curious now Fredrick, what is the Teapot Dome story?

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    A secret shopper service with published results and a open forum would draw visitors like flies to dog poop. Rather than wait for them to grace the halls at f#*kedcompany.com getting roasted by Pud's group the networks and individual deserving merchants have an early spotlight turned on them. I think public curriousity would create bookmarks for those outside the community.

    Hell ..you could set up an auction script and sell off the delivered secret shopper goodies and even report on delivery times or lack thereof. Proceeds from auctioned off goods get put back into shopping funds. Consumers could tip the group as to those merchants they distrust with bait and switch whistleblowing.

  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    If your list has just merchants associated with a network or running a independent program the legal issues don't come into play by just Watching them with alerts. The group should not be just a lunch mob unless something like CyberRebates is occuring. Putting pressure on affiliate program managers to respond to alerts often causes them to bury themselves with weak undefensable spin tactics. The idea is to force, through transparency, all affiliate enabled merchants to play fair, pay on time and report all sales. Fear of disclosure not name calling should get the job done.

    If this is what it takes to build trust amongst affiliates of any particular network of merchants then it serves it's purpose. We have been promised changes since last March and only CJ has put teeth into it's promises. Deferred income advertising requires trust to work. Affiliates posing as merchants (middlemen lining their own pockets with others traffic) will get exposed but not necessarily targeted. Aggregrator template shopping deals that do not pay off like vStores, linkjump, etc. will rightfully get exposed too. The idea is to make these networks perform their stated mission ...revenue sharing partnerships.

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