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  1. #1
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    does anyone but the merchant see these??

    i only see these transactions in my reports after they've been batched, what i want to know is, do cj record these in any way? can cj even tell if a sale has taken place if the merchant fails to batch???

    i rememember people saying at cj's ex-forum that one particular merchant missed an entire months batching, would cj.com have even noticed???

    i think i've been screwed so many times by one particular merchant that i think he must be working his way through the karma sutra :eek:

    i suppose its my own fault because i made a rule never to trust or sign-up with merchants that batch, but i made that rule after i started promoting this pissant

    <FONT FACE="trendy">merchant rage [edit]</FONT>

    --------------------
    Austin "you're going on the deactivated list" Powers

    [ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: austin powers ]

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Austin,

    DirecTV(aseline) Batched/(s) ... we all know that CJ had no idea of how many clicks that tracked or bacame sales, only what Telocity decided to credit ... Just my <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon26.gif>

    Haiko

  3. #3
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    hi,

    this is a subject that i feel very strongly about, i think cj.com work on trust here and unless cj can prove that these sales are tracked AND scrutinised, i would like to suggest a campaign to drop all merchants that batch, simultaniously on december 24th, lets give them a christmas pressy to remember

    will any of you add your name to joining in this campaign? it will be a historic act, the first time ever that affiliates have joined forces in order to acheive a goal, if we act together we can topple these cheats and become a force to be reckoned with

    if your tired of no-one listening we'll shout together, talk is cheap but shouting is FREE!

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    mr spock,

    Welcome! <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/welcome.gif>

    --------------

    Here is the real funny part ......

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>3.2 CJ Services. The code provided by CJ that You are required to integrate into and maintain within Your Links enables the tracking critical information regarding sales, Leads and Clicks that result directly from Links placed by Your Publishers through the Network Service. You and Your Publishers shall be able to produce informational reports through the Network Service concerning sales, Leads and Clicks debited to Your Account. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>3.3 Ad Serving; Tracking Code Maintenance. In order for CJ to record the tracking of Visitors' Transactions resulting from clicks on Links to Your Web site and/or Web site content, two types of CJ code must be included in and maintained within the Links: "Impression Tracking Code" and "Transaction Tracking Code". Your Links and all advertisements ("Ad Content") contained in Your Links must be in a Network Service compatible format, as such format may be established by CJ from time to time. You, Your Publishers or an agent of Yours may serve standard Ad Content. If You have any non-standard Ad Content or format, these must be served by You, Your Publishers or a CJ authorized provider (please contact CJ client services for verification and authority).

    You are required to provide CJ with accurate, verifiable reporting on the number and amount of Visitor Transactions, or CJ shall determine (where possible) actual Payouts that should be credited to Your Publishers Account, and alternatively apply an estimated amount of Payouts (as follows), during any non-functioning period of Your Links and/or the Tracking Code, where: (a) You or Your agent serve Your Ad Content, and/or (b) due to Your negligent or intentional act or omission during such non-function period. If under the preceding circumstances You are unable or You fail to provide CJ with the Transaction information, CJ shall calculate Payouts, and debit Your Account for such Payouts ("Estimated Payouts") based upon Your average "Earnings Per One Hundred Clicks" ("EPC") plus 15%. "EPC" is calculated by taking the total aggregate Payouts of Your Publishers during the most recent 30 consecutive day period ("30 Day Period") divided by the number of Clicks generated on Links to Your Web site through the Network Service divided by 100, and then an additional 15% of such EPC added to the EPC per Estimated Payout. If there is not enough data for a 30 Day Period, CJ shall calculate Estimated Payouts, and debit Your Account for Estimated Payouts based upon an average EPC plus 15%, across the Network Service for all Advertisers for the previous calendar month.

    CJ may deactivate Your Account for failure by You to remedy within 7 days of written notification by CJ the improper functioning of Links to Your Web site and/or Web site content, due to Ad Content serving problems where serving is the responsibility of You or Your agent or Tracking Code problems attributable to You or Your agent. CJ may terminate this Agreement if Your Account is not reinstated due to Your refusal to cure the improper functioning of Links to Your Web site and/or Web site content.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Haiko

  5. #5
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    Don't forget that CJ allows you to see when the merchant sent their last batch over. I think this is a somewhat newer feature that should take some of the guesswork out of it from the affiliate side.

    Jared
    Crucial Affiliate Team

  6. #6
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    well, i'm sure that i'm getting screwed by my batcher so i'll join your camaign mr spock and i'll drop him december 24th, i hope lots of people join in

    theres a merchant that uses this forum that batches transactions if memory serves [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] maybe he would like to add some input and tell us why we should change our minds

  7. #7
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    oops someone beat me to posting [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    so, all cj.com see is the dates that you batched? so, in theory i could send you thousands of dollars in sales and you could batch, say, a commission of $2 and nobody would be any the wiser?

    i bet all the merchants that lurk at this forum are rubbing their hands together with the biggest grin on their face <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon8.gif>

    mr spock, i think i'm probably definitely IN

  8. #8
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    There is an answer to the problem...audit every order from every merchant and the IP or affiliate number that came with the link.

    It's all there in the company sales records.

    I guarantee that if someone audited any merchant they would find hundreds to thousands of not reported sales.

    And if you sue the merchant, in the discovery proceedings you have the right to get a list of every order they got offline and online. Who the buyer was, where he lives, what he bought and who was the affiliate. Then it's simply going thru the list and matching up the real orders they got and what was reported to the ad networks.

    Can't wait until, the legal beagle gets the papers all prepared to slam dunk Linkshare, BeFree and ALL their merchants.

    Anyone want to bet we find enough fraud, unlawful conversion and breach of contract to prove our claim, that Snare & BeFree and most of their merchants are defrauding affiliates.

  9. #9
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    Dave,

    Considering you were never a part of any of our programs, were never owed any money by us, then all the stuff you spout on about is just heresay.

    Fact is we have paid out well over $150,000 to our affiliates. Half of that was paid to CJ affiliates and half to our email members.

    We are owed over $100k from various advertisers, which WHEN we collect whatever we can collect we WILL pay our email members
    and other affiliates. At least we are trying to collect, unlike Snare or BeFree.

    You accuse me of stealing. There isn't anything to steal. How can I take the money we never received but are owed. And, consider this.

    We haven't declared BK which we could do like Bluelight wipe out everything to everyone we do owe. Any money we get is used to keep us in business. Any excess is paid to affiliates and email members.

    Unfortunately for everyone, the internet business has not proven to be as lucrative
    as everyone thought it was going to be.

    And one other thing, why do you care? Do you have nothing better to do than beat a dead horse?

    Are you a do-gooder?

    Fact is, I have made more money for members of our email program by informing them of good deals, free stuff and opportunities that work, than we would ever owe them. Over 6,000 people on Mint Mail get a check every month or 2 and they all came from my telling them about it.

    Fact is I have provided info in the CJ forum and this forum that people have benefited from and some people have actually made and saved money from the information.

    Now you may not like how we do things and that's okay. No one says you have to like it.
    And you are welcome to your opinion.

    And I really don't care if you say if NetBiz sucks. But, in the same breath you say it, include the fact that that's what you heard, because you have no personal experience one way or the other.

  10. #10
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    austin powers - good question. So, you really think you've given *all* advertisers the 'secret' huh?

    Regarding batched orders - In my opinion they are the only way to go for us. Believe it or not, our credit department halts thousands of dollars in invalid credit card sales made over our site monthly (just as most any company our size would). I only want to report valid sales to CJ and prefer to spend my day NOT picking through the hundreds of orders sent daily trying to weed out and reverse the bad transactions and explain this to publishers. We send over transactions automatically every 24hrs to be posted at CJ. This is a report pulled from our SAP ordering system of all orders with banner IDs (affiliate IDs) attached. This system works great for us and I constantly monitor it's integrity. My affiliates know this and they know they can call me directly toll-free if they have any questions or concerns about links or orders. Secondly, from the tech perspective, our IT team decided it would be much simpler to capture the sales on our end rather than to add another cookie to our thank you page. When you add multiple cookies to the same pages the chances are higher that something can get dropped.

    So I've seen this idea to drop out of affiliate programs who batch orders. What many affiliates don't understand is that there are several ways a merchant can get the sales reported to CJ, Linkshare, or whoever and they must rely on the merchant in the end to run an honest program no matter what the methodology. When you say merchants who batch orders are 'fraudulent' you're simply making a claim that you can't back up.

    Jared
    Crucial Affiliate Team

  11. #11
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Jared

    I totaly agree with you there, it all balls down to the merchants integrity. But I must add in this day and age of computers when, I asume, most companies use computers to track and record their sales and inventories etc. surely if a merchant wanted to, he could allow CJ or someone like to monitor his sales somehow??

  12. #12
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Batching orders prior to posting them at an affiliate network can always be justified with credit card fraud issues. The problem still remains on the descripency reversal ratios of Online vs Toll free # sales. Mail order house call centers panic when it approaches 10% while it isn't unusual to see the same computer mail order house posting 35% reversal on live feed sales. I have promoted 4 batched comuter products merchants and with over 8 thousand clicks throughs Y2001 not a single one of them have shown ONE system or notebook sale. All sales above 400.00 seem to disappear since the figures cannot be accessed at BF or LS and even CJ. Is this right.

  13. #13
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    OffTopic


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Professor:
    ...Considering you were never a part of any of our programs, were never owed any money by us, then all the stuff you spout on about is just heresay.
    Fact is we have paid out well over $150,000 to our affiliates. Half of that was paid to CJ affiliates and half to our email members.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I havent gotten any money from your email prog-scam.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We are owed over $100k from various advertisers, which WHEN we collect whatever we can collect we WILL pay our email members
    and other affiliates. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    What, if not? (Hopefully your lawyers arent too busy with sueing Dave.)

    A funny thing is, the links to the stats etc do not work anymore.. :eek: Hmmmm.. wonder why.


    Quiet777

    [ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Quiet777 ]

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    Another Off Topic

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Had a sale with Crucial after only 37 clicks through to the merchant. Free traffic, at that.

  15. #15
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    Dave,

    Enron admits to owing people over $31 Billion.

    And I'm sure you owe people money as well.
    So what's your point?

    Merchants owe Linkshare & Linkshare affiliates millions - source Steve Meeser.
    Why don't you bad mouth them for awhile.

  16. #16
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    Quiet,

    Stat links should work...what link are you using, if it is bad we will fix it.

    We are sueing advertisers have been for over four months.

    As for sueing Dave, we looked into it. Decided not to pursue it, since he doesn't have a pot to piss in money wise. Net Detective really does work, along with some high tech P.I. friends.

    We're going to let him keep harping - so when we send payments to people which we will eventually he will look like the fool he is.

    If he really wanted to help everyone, he would come up with suggestions or ways to solve the problems of collecting from the likes of Bluelight, All Business, ePilot,
    Hollywood.com, American Greetings, Sweet Lobster, Linkshare and BeFree and a host of other merchants.

  17. #17
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Professor:
    Quiet,
    Stat links should work...what link are you using, if it is bad we will fix it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The link to Our stats in the emails We get. We clicked the last ones, but We saw nothing but 404s. You can see an example at http://net4biz.screwsyou.com and also at http://4net4biz.screwsyou.com . We might take these examples off soon and replace it with different content tho.


    Quiet777

    [ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Quiet777 ]

  18. #18
    Guest
    Well, We read your last post again and We have decided not to let you seen a 404. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Writing with "we" instead of "I" seems to be pretty cool.

    Quiet777
    We are Borg.

  19. #19
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    Dave & Quiet

    You guys can have fun talking to yourselves and wasting your time playing with yourelves.

    Wow, Quiet, you bought two whole domain names just for me - I'm almost impressed.

    Well, you all keep on having fun. Just make sure you spell NetBiz right and give them all the link to home page.

    The more traffic we get the better.

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Fact is I have provided info in the CJ forum and this forum that people have benefited from and some people have actually made and saved money from the information.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Yeah. Right. Getting good google ratings with meta tags, mmmmmhmmmm... Luckily my cute friend Dave has the flame thrower so I can listen to the little voice inside of me to lay low. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  21. #21
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    Ohh..

    Its that Dave ... S.A. Dave AKA ... Harry Ballsak [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    You can always trust Dave to tell it like it is.

    You can run ... but you can't hide from Dave ... Fred [img]tongue.gif[/img]


    Regards,
    S.A. Dave Too

    [ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: dhelle ]

  22. #22
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    Hehe ...

    I forgot about baldie !!!

    Hey ... are your guys twins ??? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Regards,
    Dave

  23. #23
    Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Professor:
    You guys can have fun ... wasting your time playing with yourelves.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Firstly, whether I play with my elves or not is none of your business.
    Secondly, it is and never has been a waste of time.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wow, Quiet, you bought two whole domain names just for me - I'm almost impressed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Well, Dave already explained the difference between a DOMAIN and a SUB-DOMAIN.
    Anyway, I dont think I will spend money buying a domain for you. Hmmm.. maybe once you paid your net4biz members... some kinda FreddieMemorialDomain.
    Oh btw I am also impressed (not just almost) -- you said "I"! :eek: Typo? Or does the medication work?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well, you all keep on having fun<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    You betcha!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Just make sure you spell NetBiz right and give them all the link to home page.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Did you know, you can get into trouble calling your Scampany NetBiz Corporation?


    Quiet777

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    LMAO!
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Hehe ...
    I forgot about baldie !!!

    Hey ... are your guys twins ???
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, siamese twins....hhahahahahaha.

    So, are you getting married, Dave? Did the chile rellanos pass the test?

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  25. #25
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Erm, Fred's scampany is Net4Biz, no?

    Or are they one and the same after all?

    [ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Leader ]

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