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  1. #1
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Here is a story of what I think fraud is. What do you think?

    With searchany.com I use back up listings for quaries that arent all paid for. (that would be most of them lol)

    Okay so I get this email three days ago

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>----- Original Message -----
    From: support@SearchFeed.com
    To: mikemcnabb@cybrzn.com
    Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:24 AM
    Subject: SearchFeed Usage Guide


    01-08-2002 10:24:31

    RE: Account# 729

    Hi Michael, thanks for being part of the SearchFeed.com network.

    We were asked by our click review team to contact you regarding unusual click activity. In addition to "human eyes," our automated click screening process actively monitors traffic. In order to enhance the overall value of our traffic and increase bid pricing, we request that all our partners conform to our use policy. Specifically, many clicks were generated from just a few IP strings on "high" bided terms...this generally places a red flag on an account.

    We ask that you make sure your site and HTML pages conform to our Usage Guide and that you monitor your click activity as close as possible to ensure valid clicks. All display of search results must be initiated by a search box or text link generated query. You may not point visitors directly to search results in any way.

    In the event an issue created click activity that negatively effects our advertisers or community, we may credit back clicks to our advertisers' accounts at which point your partner reports would be reflected. Please confirm that you have received this email as any additional feedback is required to keep your account open.

    Thanks again for the opportunity to partner with you!

    Support Team
    SearchFeed.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I replied back with a responce of I'll take care of it.

    Now there really wasn't a problem because according to their terms of service I basically can not send traffic directly to their links unless a visitor actually clicks their link.

    Well that's exactly what was going on because I redirected traffic from expired domains directly to my site with search terms included. These search terms only brought up the ten or so links on my site and if that visitor decided to click a link was up to them.


    Well, lately I've been feeling a little screwed when checking my stats and noticed that none of the high paying search terms like gambling were showing up anymore at searchany.com

    It was three dollars for the top spot and suddenly it's only 57 cents.

    So I open my cgi scripts and plug in a different affiliate number and retest the scripts.

    Sure as sh*t the top link for gambling is three dollars.


    Do I have a leg to stand on with my arguement?

    Why if they thought there was a problem wouldn't they make more contacts with me rather they without warning screw me over.

    [ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Heyder ]

    [ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Heyder ]

  2. #2
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    You should definitely initiate communication with them on this. Call 'em.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...many clicks were generated from just a few IP strings on "high" bided terms...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not casting a shadow on your integrity, but I can see why this is an issue. CPC fraud has been an ongoing battle on the web, and constant vigilance is required to keep it at bay. In using ppc search engines this is among my biggest concerns as an advertiser. Sometimes, using other ppc services, I do see ip addresses in my stats that appear multiple times. Usually it is two-four times. This is almost daily. Now, two-four is nothing for one person to be alarmed with, but knowing how desperate webmasters can be, they are in all likelyhood inflating the click-throughs other than by honest promotion of the links. They do me two or three times, someone else two or three times, and before you know it they have generated a few hundred click-throughs dishonestly. No one person really picks up on it, but the entire network ultimately suffers. I wish the internet had everyone using a dedicated ip address per unique individual, and there was a "caller id" technology to identify that user. That would stop the inflated click-throughs to some extent. But who am I? I keep my fingers crossed every time I check my stats at places like GoClick.com, and Findwhat.com, hoping that each click-through generated is an individual of good faith. My conversion rate, clicks to sales, is bad when it comes to ppc search services. I have not had the conversion with ppc services that I have gotten from people coming through the free search engines, which makes me all the more suspicious of fraud.

    My two cents... I do hope you can straighten things out with them. You may be the one that has to make the moves to get this straightened out.

    [ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

    [ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

  3. #3
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    The thing is Chuck I was using affiliates to get search results.

    Some of them were using email lists and stuff like that to send traffic to me.

    My affiliates at that point have done their job and that traffic is mine.

    At that point a surfer can do whatever he or she wants to do.

    If they want to visit all of the sites that are listed why should I be punished.

    What for providing a service that somebody obviously liked.

    I have contacted searchfeed regarding and they wrote back.

    They are perfectly within their rights to monitor the ip#s and I don't have a problem with them taking action but I do have a problem with not telling me that I was switched to a crappy feed without warning.

  4. #4
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    You are definately right about ppc search traffic not converting as well as regular search engines.

    There are many factors involved such as fraud, competiters clicks, and the fact that all that is available is ads so surfers become immune to the ads.

    On the other hand by finding enough of the rightly priced and surfed terms you can make a fortune when you match them with the right affiliate programs.

    The profit margin is much smaller so volume is the key.

  5. #5
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    There I contacted them and all is patched up hopefully.

    Still rings my bell though.

  6. #6
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Chuck I am going to see if there is something I can do at searchany.com to prevent someone from clicking mulitple times.

    At least so that an advertiser wouldn't get charged for it.

    PS they gave me the prime results back [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  7. #7
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    One rule that seems to work well with cpc, though not fail proof, is only one unique visitor per day, per that particular link. In other words if there is more than one click on a link by an individual in any 24 hour period then the advertiser is not charged. Some programs say "every 45 minutes", or something of that nature. However, I don't see why one user would have to click on an individual link more than once, anyhow?

  8. #8
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    Being number 1 in a keyword often means you get a lot of 'competitor' clicks as the guys thinking about putting up a listing there check out who it is they are bidding against.

    Most CPC tracking has the real fraud part whipped but where it falls down is that lots of people click with a real intention of going to a site and as soon as it starts to load up see it's not what they really wanted, they have been there, it's confusing, etc and they just hit the back button. Result, you get dinged for the click.

    That's why you have to track clicks as leads.
    So you don't have to pay for the click and go crowd. You only pay for the people who load the whole page.

    As for Heyder getting the shaft, what do expect. He's basically a VAR for Searchfeed and since they are lightweights traffic wise, what does it matter if they shaft one of their own, they will get another one.

    I'm the one responsible for the keyword 'valentines' getting lots of searches. It's now number two on the most searched list. According to my 3 cent per search pay outs I only had 36 searches for that word. If that's number 2 on the total search list we be in big trouble.

  9. #9
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Heyder, you have cleared up a great mystery for me. I always wondered how I got so many clicks from some cheapie OverSure terms. Now I think they must do the same as SearchFeed, and give some sites "the crappy feed". That would give exposure to otherwise buried listings...

    As for the CR of PPC people, it used to be that Over would win hands down and that FW converted a bit better than Google but not a lot. But the major PPCs have diluted the value of their traffic so much that it doesn't convert nearly as well as it used to. It's still profitable, though.

    As for a lot of clicks coming from the same IP, I've seen a lot more than 2s and 4s sometimes. And sometimes the IPs are different but the activity level is very fishy! OverSure lets them all through to my sites, but at the end of the month sometimes I see I've only been charged for half or less of those clicks.

    Personally I think a real user should be able to click on the same link twice instead of once. Sometimes people will go through the listings and browse a lot of stores. By the time they realize that Store #5 is the one they want to deal with, they've forgotton the name/URL of it (because they've seen so many site names since then), so they have to re-find it out of the listings. So the Conversion from those people comes from their second click.

    If the second click is blocked, that person will not be ABLE to make a Transaction because they will never be able to re-find that site which they decided to buy from after they're done "shopping around". And if the listing goes to some back page that doesn't have a link from the front page, it won't help that the root URL shows in search results--even if they do spot that root URL as "the one", they almost certainly won't remember the name of the particular page the offer is on!

    After two clicks, however, if they haven't decided by then it's probably a dud for whatever reason (competitor, jealous anti-PPCer, or just a doofus who can't make up his mind) so blocking further click charges from them would be nice...

  10. #10
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Fred an error was made on my part regarding your search term.

    The actual number of hits to that keyword was right now check my watch 544.

    I will credit your account right now with the difference.


    There I made the change before I finished this post.


    Leader,

    I think actually blocking the surfer isn't the solution rather only charging one time per visitor per 24 hrs.

    Searchany does not charge the same advertiser more than one time per 24 hrs for the same keyword listing.

    I knew that yesterday but I didn't want to say so until I double checked.

  11. #11
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    Thanks...thought something was a bit out of kilt.

    By the way, those 544 searches came from my Shopper's Shoppe page. It had over 5,000 visitors in the last two days.

    So more than 10% clicked the link:

    Valentines Day Is Just Around The Corner. Click Here To Check Out Some Cool Gift Ideas For Valentines Day.

    Basically that was a test of the Searchany early warning system. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]. Not bad for an out link.

    Let me know what words you need searched

  12. #12
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Professor I'll get back to you on your PM real soon I just wanted to put some thought into it first.

  13. #13
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, I don't know about other people but I bought a domain and hosting tonight. I visited the site several times and also called them before I decided. I got the link from here but I can imagine that if I had first found it through a search engine, I might have used the same search several times. I guess it all depends. But, second and even forth clicks can sometimes be legitimate.

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