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  1. #1
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    I have been using ShareaSale for some time now and got introduced to ABestWeb through them. I have aided in this site reaching there 5400 plus members, however abestweb has denied me quite a few sign-ups through shareasale.

    I expect this post will be seen by abestweb. I have contacted abestweb through the contact form at shareasale and have received no response.

    Just as I asked through shareasale, I will ask here, why?

    Paul Coonan
    InternetSurfers Alliance Against Fraud
    PayMeToday.com

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Paul ..I'm a little confused why you'd choose to put your very first post in the Merchant Fraud section and mention Haiko's shareasale program. I took the time, out of curiosity, to look at your 2 sites and was quite amused to see those listings of all the "get paid-to-surf" or read e-mail programs which are scams. The posts about Nitroclicks.com showed a real con-game suckering in all those webmasters seeking some easy money and traffic. I'm sure most here, except for the greenhorns, know all "get paid to...name your poison" or MLM programs are just pipe dreams to get the founders some quick cash before exiting the scene covering their tracks. Interesting to read the domains of the con-men running these programs in your scam list. I'm sure some dubious folks here know the names.

    I made the mistake of sitting through the normal disgusting meaningless FLASH into into the second site to see if you had up ABW banners as an affiliate. Bang! A huge selection of all the various types of programs that to me are potential rip-offs can be found there under your domain name. This forum forbids displaying links to or promoting any MLM programs because we understand they are deadend revenue streams.

    Please clarify the meaning of your post and if need be send an e-mail to Haiko ..He's always receptive and responds to all legit requests.

    WebMaster Mike

  3. #3
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    Sorry if this was not the appropriate place to put this post. I am not familiar enough to know this forum and where things should go pertaining to my situation. If there is a better place, then someone who can move this thread can move it.

    If there is a problem with having my own sites in my sig, which are not affiliate links, then please clarify this and I will take them out of my sig. I did remove the one that likely you found offensive.

    In any case, I posted to this thread expecting to get a quick reply.

    I am a shareasale affiliate. I was approved for ABW. I promote ABW in my traffic exchange. People have signed up, and I received 50 cents per sign up to ABW.

    The problem is, I have had nearly all of the commissions denied. I wrote to ABW through the contact form at shareasale asking ABW why they denied my commissions. I did not get a response. Henceforth, I have come here to hopefully get an answer.

    Paul Coonan
    InternetSurfers Alliance Against Fraud

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Hello Paul,

    I have reviewed your account and see:

    Total Hits from this Affiliate: 114
    Hits this Month: 2
    Total Commissions Paid: .05
    Commissions this Month: 0.00

    Network Stats
    Total Sales/Leads Generated: 6.00
    Sales/Leads this Month: 1.00

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I have aided in this site reaching there 5400 plus members, however abestweb has denied me quite a few sign-ups through shareasale.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    With 114 total hits and SEVEN leads I must say that your statement is an utter lie!

    For everyone's edification, The leads I reversed from Paul Coonan are:

    1708059 - LIinnovations
    1688125 - LIinnovations
    1678521 - LIinnovations
    1677777 - LIinnovations
    1677768 - LIinnovations
    1180740 - paidtoreademail

    Five duplicate leads and one paidtoreademail bozo .. yeah ok ... the ABestWeb affiliate program is a fraud [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

    If you read the TOS of the affiliate program, you'll see that I require 10 posts on the board, it used to be three, but I had many a russian post hi three times in a row. I have many affiliates at SaS that I pay per click in addition to per lead for I know the traffic they send is real and return. I also have affiliates whom I pay up to $2.00 per lead, once again, based on high quality leads! I have no problems with paying for REAL leads but I do find it rediculous to GIVE money away, I know of many good charities who can use the money for better purposes.

    Continued Success,

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  5. #5
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    Okay, thanks for your answer. But no thanks for your crappy attitude. That was out of line if you ask me.

    I asked a simple question. Duplicates, I can see that now that you point it out to me. Now was that hard? That's all I wanted to know.

    Maybe you could show some professionalism in your posting especially when it comes to someone advertising your site for you. You never know who you are really talking to.

    I can see now that my advertising of your site is a big wasted effort. I know it will be no loss to you, looking at what stats you have from shareasale. I do not choose to advertise for someone the likes of you.

    I can see that you are selective about who joins your forum, quite discriminating if you ask me. Obviously you have been burnt by the 'get paid' industry, but no need to take it out on innocent people that don't know better.

    As for me I do know better.

    I will kindly remove your links from anything I have.

    I will also publicly note your lack of professionalism.

    Where did I ever say you were a fraud?

    All I wanted was some info. I did not come here to be flamed.

    Paul Coonan
    InternetSurfers Alliance Against Fraud

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by iSAAFdotCOM:
    Okay, thanks for your answer. But no thanks for your crappy attitude. That was out of line if you ask me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You come on my board and accuse me of fraud when you have access to the same informatiion as I do and I have an attittude? Look at your stats before you acuse me of any impropriety ... My actions ... have probably made you an extra 20% in earnings by fighting Parasites! I recieved your email and it was on my to do list but I get over 2K emails a day ... I have to prioritize!


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Maybe you could show some professionalism in your posting especially when it comes to someone advertising your site for you. You never know who you are really talking to. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Do you know who you accused of fraud? I answered you, in due time and find your accusation of fraud, laughable, SIR, when your transactions are completely fraudulent!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I can see now that my advertising of your site is a big wasted effort.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    MLMers are NOT affiliate marketers, so yes your wasting my time and money!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I know it will be no loss to you, looking at what stats you have from shareasale.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Same stats you can see, re-read the stats (posted above)!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I do not choose to advertise for someone the likes of you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The likes of me? Your the MLMer ... not I! I fight parasites daily ... what do you do to advance this industry? Push the same lead 5 times and expect a commission for it? KMA!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I can see that you are selective about who joins your forum, quite discriminating if you ask me. Obviously you have been burnt by the 'get paid' industry, but no need to take it out on innocent people that don't know better.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ummm no I never had to "surf to get paid" I respect your site and the whistle blowing, you claim ... but as for me, and mine, we do know better. I allow all to join, EVEN freakaziods and liars, as obviosly evidenced by some of our members. AHEM!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I will kindly remove your links from anything I have.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Please do, Fraudulent transactions costs me many hours per day!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I will also publicly note your lack of professionalism.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ... If you don't allow these retorts ... I'll simply sue you for defamation .. get off your high horse and face reality ... your the one who didn't even look at your stats and post in my merchant fraud forum, read my friend, read ... what I have done pales to you attempt to defraud me and ABestWeb, and the industry!

    Continued Success ... get some real leads and don't ***** when you are the fraudulent one,

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

    [This message was edited by Haiko on August 30, 2002 at 09:14 PM.]

    [This message was edited by Haiko on August 30, 2002 at 09:22 PM.]

  7. #7
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    Let's put things into perspective.

    First I must assume since I posted in this section that you take that as 'I am calling you a fraud'. I clearly stated that if this section was inappropriate that someone, like you, should move it somewhere else. All I wanted was an answer to a question and I put it the place that I figured I would get the quickest response.

    I can understand your anger if you are letting where I posted get to you, but I must truly admit that you are really making yourself look bad in your own forum.

    The fact is, I only stated you had not responded. Now when you do, you get all over me like I am an idiot. I have never accused you of anything but being an arse. I asked a simple question, and I should have gotten a simple answer and not been treated like I have my head up my arse. Is this the way you treat everybody? Maybe that's why you have to pay people to join your forum.

    Here is a painful fact for you. You apparently have problems with MLMers but the reality is, you depend on them for you to get your business. Why else would you use shareasale?

    At least I do not have to pay people to join my forum.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Do you know who you accused of fraud? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I have accused many people of fraud, but not you. I ask you again, especially since you can obviously use the quote feature on many other parts of my posts, where have I accused you of fraud?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> MLMers are NOT affiliate marketers, so yes your wasting my time and money!

    The likes of me? Your the MLMer ... not I! I fight parasites daily ... what do you do to advance this industry? Push the same lead 5 times and expect a commission for it? KMA!

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Why don't you define the difference between an MLMer and an affiliate marketer.

    I don't have to 'surf to get paid' nor 'read email to get paid' either, nor do I offer any site that does anything like that. People join my site to advertise sites like that, and hey, you know what? Those people advertising those sites are also a great deal of the kind of people who are advertising your site as well.

    FYI I don't 'push' anything. Maybe the guy signed up several times because maybe he did not get an email from you, or maybe since this guy was someone you did not like you deleted him. So, he had to sign up more than once and the cookie set by shareasale marked him as my lead every time. I don't know what the guy did. I do not control people's actions, so it is not me you should have a problem with.

    I had you rotating in my traffic exchange. Your site gets a visit. The person who signs up from me has no incentive to sign up to your site. They do it on their own free will. Why someone would sign up 5 times, sounds like they may have had some computer problems to me. Who knows.

    You claim to pay some people 2 bucks per lead. In all actuality of the signups you denied me, there was 2 signups which would be 1 buck to me.

    I am not making light of this to fight for a dollar, I could care less. But you appear to be making a big deal out of it.

    I have brought this to light for the principle of the matter.

    I am the one guy who stands up and says, hey what the hell are you doing, when most people would just let it slide.

    Maybe you should take a look at your ethics and show some integrity.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He who walks in integrity walks securely. But he who perverts his ways will be found out.
    Proverbs 10:9
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Paul Coonan
    InternetSurfers Alliance Against Fraud

  8. #8
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    PMFJI, but it seems just a wee tad disingenuous to claim surprise that anyone would think you were calling Haiko a fraud just because you chose to post a complaint against him in the MERCHANT FRAUD section.

    I think most reasonable people would see a message in the MERCHANT FRAUD section and think, "hmmm, that's a message about merchant fraud."

    "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes." -- Holly, from Red Dwarf

  9. #9
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    Given that I used email and did not receive a reply, because it would appear that I as an advertiser of this site was low on the priority list of the owner, I ask this:

    Looking at the other categories in this forum, where would you go if you wanted to know why you had commissions denied? Especially when this is the category description:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Post skullduggery here (cookie duration, non payment or terms). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Makes perfect sense to me to post in this category.

    I am sure a person can say just about anything they want, and have, about any other program and/or owner in this category. But ask a legitimate question about this site's owner/operator and get your head shoved up your bung hole.

    Paul Coonan
    InternetSurfers Alliance Against Fraud
    PayMeToday.com

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador parentsworld's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by iSAAFdotCOM:

    I can understand your anger if you are letting where I posted get to you, but I must truly admit that you are really making yourself look bad in your own forum.

    Paul Coonan
    http://isaaf.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Um, nope. He is not making himself look bad at all. I'd have reacted the same way if not with more vigor if it had been me. I think most people here understand fully why he's upset.

    Posting in this forum is akin to yelling fraud -- doesn't take an old timer to figure that out. Would you like someone to do that about you on your own site? I think not.

    If I'm new to a site/forum and don't know where to post a question I'll post it in the general area. A simple post in the general area saying "I know you must be busy, I haven't heard back from my email but I was wondering...." would have gotten you a lot further.

    'Veni, Vidi, Velcro' - I came, I saw, I stuck around

  11. #11
    Member heywood's Avatar
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    Hey!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ... If you don't allow these retorts ... I'll simply sue you for defamation .. get off your high horse and face reality ... your the one who didn't even look at your stats and post in my merchant fraud forum, read my friend, read ... what I have done pales to you attempt to defraud me and ABestWeb, and the industry!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Please note: We don't allow legal threats of any kind on our boards! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Just trying to make an honest buck

  12. #12
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    &gt;&gt;Looking at the other categories in this forum, where would you go if you wanted to know why you had commissions denied?&lt;&lt;

    The ShareASale forum -- description: "Affiliate and Merchant support forum."

    It's common practice on this board, when there isn't a specified merchant forum, to post in the overseeing network's forum.

    Of course, you'd have to have to at least feign interest in observing board protocol to notice that.

    Or... you could have read the forum descriptions and that would have told you.

    "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes." -- Holly, from Red Dwarf

  13. #13
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    &gt;there was 2 signups

    Were. There "were" two signups.


    How old are you, son? Not that grammatical errors are your biggest problem.. You built up some sense of entitlement against Haiko and come here parading it, when for all I know its the first he's ever heard of you! If theres one thing I can't stand its people demanding when they only have to ask.

    And I doubt very much whether ABW actually needs to pay for traffic. And even if it did, paying for yours is more like a public service. Haiko is *paying* to educate MLM and 'get paid to surf' lusers?? Give the man a medal!



    I

  14. #14
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Maybe the guy signed up several times..... or maybe since this guy was someone you did not like you deleted him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Given the recent BS here with people showing up who have been banned for bad behaviour, and given the fact they have come back several times under different names to stir up more trouble, this is a very interesting and telling statement.


    Methinks thou dost protest too much....


    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    she was tired of being poor, and she wasn't into selling door to door.... CSN

  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You claim to pay some people 2 bucks per lead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I am able to verify this fact, and must say that I have been a member of the ABW affiliate program since its start, and have never had reason to doubt any of my reversals.
    Incidentally, one of which was a duplicate lead and which I pointed out to Haiko [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Mad Doctor Gfufy

  16. #16
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    iSAAFdotCOM into every life a little rain must fall.

    Now, go do something productive.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  17. #17
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Now, go do something productive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What Ssansf said!

    {

    Stuff that makes me go, "huh?"

    [This message was edited by eaglefire on August 31, 2002 at 10:29 AM.]

  18. #18
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If theres one thing I can't stand its people demanding when they only have to ask.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Let me refer to my very first post and I politely ask you where I made demands.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have been using Shareasale for some time now and got introduced to ABestWeb through them. I have aided in this site reaching their 5400 plus members, however ABestWeb has denied me quite a few sign-ups through shareasale.

    I expect this post will be seen by ABestWeb. I have contacted ABestWeb through the contact form at shareasale and have received no response.

    Just as I asked through shareasale, I will ask here, why?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    My mistake obviously for posting in the scam forum, I apologize for making a newbie mistake. I merely read the description where it indicated 'non-payment'.

    Yes I looked at the stats, however, if I knew why the commissions were denied, I would not have felt compelled to ask in the first place. Pardon me for not being a Shareasale expert.

    I got my answer, but surely not in a way I would have expected. I guess some people take for granted that there are people who do not know better as to where to post at times. I run a forum myself and if there is a post that appears to be misplaced, I immediately move to where I feel it should be. I do not jump the person posting and patronize them for their naivety or even ignorance. If it continues to be a problem then I feel it is time to have personal contact and confront the person.

    Many of you who have been here a while surely know Haiko and likely know him differently than I do. Likely you did not get a first impression as I did. You can never have another first impression.

    On that note, I apologize for posting in the 'wrong' folder and I thank you Haiko for answering my question.

    Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that some of you are placing me in a 'get paid to surf/read/click' category. I gave that up a long time ago, when mValue took the plunge. Anyone remember that one? I just missed out on a $10,000 spot by only a few referrals. I ended up taking $1000. That was it for me. What do I do now? I make money from the people promoting all that 'get paid to surf/read/click' stuff now.

    Paul Coonan
    InternetSurfers Alliance Against Fraud
    PayMeToday.com

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Obviously my first reply wasn't too harsh.

    WebMaster Mike

  20. #20
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    Come on... you are fighting for $3!!!!

    I'm sure if you used your time in building a new site... or something like that you would earn more than that.

    If you want I'll give you $3!
    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    PACE!!!
    This forum should be friendly!

  21. #21
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    This is not about $3. I make plenty money elsewhere. In fact, I make far more money giving away toilet paper than I ever did with this place.

    This old thread was about professionalism and communication with affiliates.

    The owner of this site purely showed an unprofessional attitude which borderlined, I feel, on an immature teenage personality, with a touch of false ego liken to being God.

    Not only that but commissions are denied based on the user name of the person who signs up. That is completely biased, and in my opinion, uncalled for.

    What are you supposed to tell your visitors when they sign up? Don't have an email address that contains the words 'getpaid' in it?

    I asked a simple question here, albeit in what was deemed the wrong place (so move it to the appropriate place for God's sake, that's what a moderator is for), and I expected to get a simple professional answer, not a condescending attack.

    This forum is about educating yet people are slammed for making a simple mistake and are patronized for naivety or lack of understanding. Defeats the whole purpose doesn't it?

    There is strong bias here towards people who are in the 'get paid to' industry. I am not a marketer of those kinds of sites and have not been since I got my $1000 check from mValue, if anyone remembers them. In any case, I moved on to other things. What people should realize here is that there are millions of 'get paid to' promoters out there. Most start out that way, and many eventually move up to bigger and better things. You should not bite the hand that feeds you. These people should be welcomed as new blood, not attacked for where they started out. This forum is about education right? Who are you going to teach if you shew away your students?

    Paul Coonan
    InternetSurfers Alliance Against Fraud
    PayMeToday.com

  22. #22
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    I looked at several past posts where other merchants behaved in the same manner as ABW and they were hung out to dry and called unprofessional.

    Look at the posts where merchants posted affiliates stats and then look at the reaction of Haiko and other members.

    Seems pretty obvious to me what's going on here.

    You are right. If you had leads reversed and you tried to contact the merchant and they never bothered to get back to you, that should tell you you are dealing with yet another low quality merchant.

    Maybe you can not convert because YOUR visitors know that this isn't a high quality message board, but rather, a place for people to complain about not getting their 20.00 affiliate checks when the network minimum is $25.00

    I have a question for ABW. Why do you keep bragging that you are "over 5800 strong" when only about 8 people ever bother to post here? What happened to the other 5792 people that you had to pay for?

    Pity that ABW has taken a perfectly good opportunity and made it into his own personal *****-board and that so many seemingly otherwise wise people are such butt smoochers!

    I cant believe you didnt get banned. Haiko's history is to ban everyone that hurts his feelings and doesnt agree with him. He is really a dramatic and hot headed little thing.

    I think the real question should be, how old is Haiko?

    Look at some of your posts before you start insulting your visitors, you ARE very unprofessional. You really are. No wonder so many of teh networks quit coming here. What do you expect?

    Also, I don't ever see any "real" affiliates here. Certainly any super affiliates would rather be busy working and making money, than whining and complaining about stupid crap. Anyone that posts here might as well just admit that they aren't "serious" affiliates, just posers. I hate to sound cruel, but that is the reality.

    I do not even know why any network is dumb enough to allow you to promote this spam-sham you are running, especially when those networks dont allow sites that contain PROFANITY as this one always does. Maybe I'll shoot them off an email about that huh?

    And one last words to the affiliates that are reading this. In regards to Morpheus and the like... while I think it is abhorrent that they are stealing commissions and overwriting links, do you people REALLY think that merchants care about YOU and your couple hundred visitors a month when they have access to MILLIONS and MILLIONS? Of course they don't care! Who would?

    I mean, get real! The only reason they try to publicly appease you is so you'll leave their links on your site so they CAN be overwritten.

    Even the President of CJ announced that he could CARE LESS about affiliates, yet you STILL team up with the likes of them, then you turn around and come here and CRY about the results! I don't know who is the worst hypocrites here, the merchants or the affiliates!

    Who should feel sorry for you?

    Real smart! Don't REWARD honest networks with your business. Go get gyped by the BIG networks and then come here and cry about it. REAL PRODUCTIVE!

  23. #23
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Great to here you 2 guys are doing so bad you had to come here and blow off some steam. Obviously Paul's board gets action from all those stupid newbee websurfers who get duped into joining any "get paid to" type program. They are all wondering where the heck their money went to as they endure reading spamms and clicking on Popup hellhole domains to earn lunch money. Paul can't you help me get my money from these 200+ copycat scam artists? Paul do you know an honest "get paid to" or FREEBEE site that isn't headed to Pud's Hall of Fame?

    Nice thing about trolls like you two is we run them out of here on a rail ..tarred and feathered. Now go along and try to organize your rabid followers into some suicide cult group cause the good old days of CPC script kiddies no longer exists. Now run to those 3rd world networks and see if they have a neat MLM program you can promote via spamm...your next frontier..and leave the selling to us professionals.

    WebMaster Mike

  24. #24
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    Mike


    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  25. #25
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    45
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    Great to here you 2 guys are doing so bad you had to come here. Nice thing about trolls like you two is we run them out of here on a rail ..tarred and feathered.
    WebMaster Mike<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mike I know your numbers, you aren't nearly as important as you would like people to believe. And that website of yours.... well, you are kidding, right? What's with all the banners? Maybe you should spend a few bucks and get a professionally designed website? Just a thought. Either way, you are the last one that should be insulting others. You have NO room to talk.

    I do not do pay to surf or email or whatever it is that the other guy does. I am a professional webmaster that happened to be surfing through here one day and thought it was good for a chuckle or two.

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