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  1. #1
    Newbie
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    Hello,

    I've noticed a pattern. When an order gets larger than a certain amount, the merchant always cancels it. This makes sense because:

    1) it's a large order so legitimately, the merchant needs to confirm that the order is indeed authorized

    2) now, while they have the customer on the phone, why not convert the sale to a different transaction and cut out the middle man? Tell the customer that the order needs to be cancelled (for some made up reason) and reissued under a different transaction so that the merchant doesn't have to share the commission.

    3) throw in a few other tiny chargebacks just to obfuscate these large ones from standing out on thier own

    Since the third party affiliate program also looses their fair share from this fraud, it would be worth the AP's time to help investigate this. Do you think they would? Would they have the customer's information to be able to contact them and find out if they in fact were contacted by the merchant and asked to reorder over the telephone?

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Or an even more likely scenario...

    Little Johnny steals a credit card. Instead of just ordering a few DVD's, he orders 10 DVD Players, 10 Digital Audio Players, 10 Digital Cameras, and 10 CD Players. The company catches the fraudulent order and cancels it.

    Not all large orders are fraudulent, but most fraudulent orders are large.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  3. #3
    Newbie
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    Thanks for your feedback.

    I agree with your more likely scenario. But when would you start to suspect something amiss? And how would you check? If you can't check, then the merchant can do what I've described with impunity.

    If it costs the merchant time to make the phone call to validate the order, might he not justify to himself that the time and cost of the phone call warrants cutting out the middle man?

    [This message was edited by Wired on February 03, 2004 at 07:03 PM.]

  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Most merchants are honest, but the senerio does happen. Often classified as bait and switch common with out of stock items or telling the customer to cancel by telling them the SKU # was wrong on the site. Many shady merchants and middlemen posers auto verify the card/account at the point of sale and then turn the big orders over to a flat fee call center to upsell or play the shell game.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  5. #5
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    To protect the publisher, the AP should have a policy where the advertiser must supply contact information for all chargebacks above a certain amount. If the order is fraudulent, the merchant should have no problem giving out this information.

  6. #6
    Full Member Jungleland's Avatar
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    Depending on the merchant and their return policy, you could order from them and see what happens.

    "Don't let yesterday take up to much of today."

  7. #7
    Affiliate Miester my2cents's Avatar
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    NO, Wired
    ----------------------------------------

    2) now, while they have the customer on the phone, why not convert the sale to a different transaction and cut out the middle man? Tell the customer that the order needs to be cancelled (for some made up reason) and reissued under a different transaction so that the merchant doesn't have to share the commission.

    ---------------------------------

    there is no need to do this... the merchant can simply reverse your sale and keep the sale for him self...

    I had this happen to me several years ago...

    A very well know financial services company purchased another financial services company I was promoting... the first day they ran the company I was promoting the very first thing they did was close the affliate program and cancel the all commissions owed..

    I lost $30,000 in commisions... with a click of their mouse!

    And, that's the bottom line because it's my2cents!

  8. #8
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    Interesting topic.
    I will put in my "2cents" on this issue. I realize I may be a fairly new merchant, but I question all of this.

    I look at affiliates as an elite sales team.
    Do I truly believe I would be able to recruit the best of the best with shady business practices and under-handed dealings?? I highly doubt it...and I certainly hope not.

    My question to all of you is this??

    If you believe that the company you are marketing, in essence, selling for, does not have the integrity to honor the sales you are providing them, than why are you representing them?? I read forum after forum where the affiliates question many things a merchant does, but yet; continues to market them. You take less commissions, cancelled commissions, put up with URL redirects, Parasites and so much more, but you never hit them where it hurts??
    Why represent a company that does not have your interests in mind??

    I would not go to work for a company that put me at risk, didnt care about my well-being and so forth, but here that seems to be the general opinion.

    And that is such a sad statement for not only affiliate marketing, but Internet Commerce in general.

    Rob
    Superstore Electronics

    http://www.superstore-electronics.com/affiliate2.cfm

  9. #9
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I am CERTAIN that some merchants are theives.

    That's why the networks were started in the first place, to provide trusted third party verification. Now, some networks appear to have become the biggest theives of all. Choose your network with care and your merchants with even more care.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  10. #10
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    I do not dispute that point, I just would not want to help support them!!

    Rob
    Superstore Electronics

    http://www.superstore-electronics.com/affiliate2.cfm

  11. #11
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Give you one example. I have a merchant that has a very unique line of products that go very well with some products that a couple of other merchants have. I have developed a whole site around the theme. This site has #1 rankings on a whole fist full of keywords. Now, I don't think the site would rank too well if I took the merchant with the unique products off. I am certain in my own mind that he cheats me more than I even want to think about. But, I have two good honest merchants there whose sales I would lose. Both they and I will do less well if I dump the dastard. If I could prove it in some way I would love to kick his kiester into tomorrow. But, I can't prove it. It is just a feeling. How would you feel about it if I tore the whole site down based on this feeling and you were one of the two good merchants?

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

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