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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Links As Weapons...
    I just wanted to come in here and post my latest experience with the new Google algorithm changes and how I think Google has totally missed the mark on one ranking change...

    As everyone may know by now Google has started penalizing sites for certain incoming links or as they call them "Unnatural Links" on other sites. If Google sees a bunch of links to your site on a bunch of other sites that do NOT have the rel="nofollow" attribute set... your site will get penalized. Just like in the JC Penney Case a few months ago. If you are familiar with that case then you probably think you have nothing to worry about if you don't hire some shady SEO company to do your bidding. It was definitely something I thought I would never have to worry about... I don't exchange links... link to anyone but a merchant or two.... I don't hire SEO companies to do anything... and I don't buy links anywhere not even Google Ads. I rely strictly on natural search engine links and natural links period.

    I have been having issues in Google for the last few months... the only way to find my site now is to search for my domain name specifically. I actually had to sign-up for a Google Analytics account and verify my site with them just to try to see what they were seeing and try to fix whatever the mighty Google had deemed unworthy of any kind of listing. What I found wasn't good...

    I have over 800 incoming links from domains I have never heard of... 50% of the linking domains have the .tk TLD which can be found here:: http://www.dot.tk the good news is they have a pretty nice spam report section and I am waiting on their response to my report... but they have given the spammers hundreds of domains like these ::::
    {{Links Lead To Google Searches For Each Domain Name}}
    bylandersewell.tk
    sazeideswicker.tk
    bernardosierra.tk
    kaydencebose.tk
    mazumdaryap.tk
    emilianoadya.tk
    geovanniaziz.tk
    landwehryau.tk
    naccachezicari.tk
    lebowitzsegall.tk


    As you can see each domain name has content listed in Google and they all have content somewhere but you cannot access any of it...


    All of those domain names are owned by:::
    Malo Ni Advertising Limited
    16 Peel Road
    Douglas IM1 4LR
    Isle of Man
    Phone: +44 (0)1624 623543
    Fax: +44 (0)1624 623548


    And they all redirect to:::
    http://searchmagnified.com

    Which is listed here::
    searchmagnified.com | McAfee SiteAdvisor Software
    and if you look closely there... you will see that it is connected to:::
    bidsystem.com | McAfee SiteAdvisor Software

    When you FINALLY get to where you are going it is here:::
    http://www.bidsystem.com
    Which actually redirects here:::
    https://advertiser.adknowledge.com/Signup?

    And I have NEVER seen that site before in my life...
    Apparently one of my really super good buddies signed my site up for some really cheap and really spammy garbage advertising and it ruined my sites reputation and got me buried in a big pile of Google mucky muck...

    I am on the verge of having to abandon my domain that I have worked so hard on for the last 4-5 YEARS... simply because someone wanted me out of the SERPs... Even if I get every single .TK domains shut down with a spam report there are still almost 400 other links on .INFO domains that I won't be able to take care of at all. Like these domains that do the exact same thing as the .TK domains above - ACCEPT they don't redirect they are dead links or a bunch of spam in a blog:::

    {{Links Lead To Google Searches For Each Domain Name}}
    jpshoestrendz.info
    shoppworld.info
    campgearsmart.info
    ishoeconnection.info
    apparelzshopia.info
    shopperxy.info
    shoesaleland.info
    ishoepoint.info


    That is all it takes now... a few bucks spent on shady advertising and you can basically wipe out your competition. Of course it was suggested that I go to the Google Webmaster Forums and discuss it in there... and there are a lot of complaints about this exact same thing happening to other affiliates. There isn't any sympathy or consideration handed out for anyone unlucky enough to fall victim to such a malicious attack... as usual the Google shills blame it all on the "affiliate" or should I say spammer... most of the "Higher Level" so called webmasters in there don't provide any help... only an attitude and ridicule for ever having anything up on your site accept adsense ads and for thinking for a millisecond that Google might be to blame for their own algorithm...

    So by Google adding this Unnatural Link criteria to the algorithm they have effectively given all the power to everyone ACCEPT the owners of the domain they are penalizing. Google has totally missed the mark on this change and they have implemented it without thinking about the end results (or have they)... If they eliminate 50% actual spammers and 50% affiliates it's a WIN WIN for Google. I REALLY like this guys idea of a new tag for the Robots.txt file... 6 Ways to Recover from Bad Links | SEOmoz but unfortunately that isn't available yet... Google is basically judge jury and executioner and of course they look at affiliates as Guilty until Proven Innocent and who is going to stop them or do anything but try to comply with what ever idiotic rule they come up with next.

    I know what you are thinking... That won't happen to me... and that is exactly what I thought a few months ago and now I am seriously considering abandoning a domain that has been my bread and butter for the past few years.


    Last edited by AddHandler; March 11th, 2012 at 03:27 AM.


  2. #2
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    AddHandler,

    Thanks for this post. I too have been hit hard in the past few months (by the Google algorithm changes) and this topic is one that I did not consider. Gotta go check my in-bound links!
    When the only tool you have is a hammer - everything looks like a nail.

  3. #3
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    If Google sees a bunch of links to your site on a bunch of other sites that do NOT have the rel="nofollow" attribute set... your site will get penalized.
    What you've said here is 100% wrong.

    I don't doubt that what you have said in the rest of the thread is correct and is an issue for your site, but that quote is misleading and incorrect.

    Google have always had an algorithm that looks at the link graph and tries to discount 'unnatural' links. That's nothing new.

    Additionally, your suggestion that you will get penalized if inbound links from other sites aren't 'nofollowed' is just wrong.

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  5. #4
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    MARKYMARK::::::::
    From the Google Message:::

    "Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes. Here are a couple of articles describing these techniques:
    Buying links to pass PageRank
    Paid links - Webmaster Tools Help

    Link schemes
    Link schemes - Webmaster Tools Help
    "

    Read the first article about PAID LINKS:::::
    From that article::

    "Buying and selling links is a normal part of the economy of the web when done for advertising purposes, and not for manipulation of search results. Links purchased for advertising should be designated as such. This can be done in several ways, such as:

    Adding a rel="nofollow" attribute to the <a> tag"

    ===============================================

    So All I have to do is "buy" links for you... or if I have a couple of thousand domains... put links up to YOUR site without the rel="NOFOLLOW" and you'll get penalized......

    Sorry but you are wrong....
    I REALLY REALLY WISH YOU WEREN'T
    But sadly... you are...

    Read how this has affected others:::
    Search results - Webmaster Tools Help

    Read those and see what you think...
    What if you suddenly dropped and found 1000 links on hundreds of domains...
    And then you get the dreaded boot from Google....
    Then you get the dreaded Unnatural Link letter...

    AND YOU KNOW FOR A FACT YOU DIDN'T ADD LINKS TO YOUR SITE ANYWHERE EVER...
    How would you go about getting those links removed...????
    What would you do...???
    Go into webmaster central over there at the big Google plex and start asking questions just like those people....

    It is the truth and it's WRONG in so many ways......

    If you read a bunch of those you'll see that having a link exchange up on your site qualifies you for a LINK SCHEME penalty....

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  7. #5
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Oh hey MarkyMark...
    And anyone else in the forum...
    The links in your signature without the rel="nofollow" attribue added are a RED FLAG TO GOOGLE NOW... and they indicate that you could be a possible spammer....

    They actually pointed me to TWO LINKS in forums I had never visited with links in the signatures:::

    From the dreaded unnatural link email I received from God...uh I mean Google....

    "To illustrate how these articles could apply to you, here are examples of pages that contain inorganic links to your site:
    TWiT Town Commons - Profile of stu00028
    View Profile: brown00031 - Conceiva Software Forums
    "
    And neither of those forum users EVER made a single post... so Google found those in a forum PROFILE which should be blocked by Robots.txt.... ((hint hint ABW))

    I contacted the forum owners and they removed the links "Thankfully"...
    But you can plainly see that just about anyone can post BADLINKS to your site and get you a penalty or even get you blacklisted from Google...

    Like I said before::
    With Google adding this Unnatural Link criteria to the algorithm they have effectively given all the power to everyone ACCEPT the owners of the domain they are penalizing.

    ALL the site owners can do is scramble around looking for contact info and sites with bad links on them... and HOPE that they will be able to CLEAN up all the garbage in order to please Google..


  8. #6
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    "If Google sees a bunch of links to your site on a bunch of other sites that do NOT have the rel="nofollow" attribute set... your site will get penalized."

    MarkyMark is right, that statement alone is not true. There are plenty of sites that rank well that have regular links coming in, in fact that's usually the #1 off page factor in helping your site rank, links in.

    Now, I do agree with you on some of the other stuff, in the past I've heard it called "bowling", how you can bowl a competitor out of the SERPS.

    There are people out there that do things to get their own sites penalized. Buying links and such. I know sites, for a fact, in some of my own sectors that have been zapped for doing that. Even with Adsense. I know of a wife of one of my parents friends that blogs for a living. She got her Adsense account zapped because she was doing something fishy.

    So that behavior that people do, to get their own sites/SERPS whacked, their Adsense accounts whacked, they could easily do that same behavior to other sites. How would Google know?

    But, I think that's more for new sites or sites that don't have good incoming links. If it's a site that's been around for awhile, has good links in from different places, I don't think that type of behavior will have any affect for the most part.

    Of course, even with that, sites having some good links in naturally, some of them do things that Google considers bad and can get penalized, like Overstock - Google Penalizes Overstock for Search Tactics - WSJ.com

  9. #7
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Trust::
    That is the way it USED TO BE.... This is the way it is now...
    ""If Google sees a bunch of links to your site on a bunch of other sites that do NOT have the rel="nofollow" attribute set... your site will get penalized.""

    Period...
    There is no better example of that than the FORUM Signatures I posted that GOOGLE themselves pointed out as being BAD...

    Anyone could do that to my site or yours...

    Any attempt to PASS PAGE RANK is the way they describe it... and the only way NOT TO PASS PAGERANK is to add the rel="nofollow" tag to the link...

    That goes for advertising... forum links... a friends link on their site to yours... Any link without the rel="nofollow" attribute set is considered TRYING TO PASS PAGERANK... they don't say "only on certain sites" or "only in certain neighborhoods" they say LINKS....

    Why do you think that others are suggesting ways for the webmaster of the site being LINKED TO have some say in how the links are interpreted by Google::: 6 Ways to Recover from Bad Links | SEOmoz

    Read some articles on this subject and you'll find that it doesn't matter where or who the links are coming from... it only matters if Google sees the links as trying to pass pagerank and increase the linked sites position in Googles SERPs. https://www.google.com/search?q=Reco...l+links+Google

    It's a new day and a new world...

  10. #8
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    They sent me this too:::

    Contact a site's webmaster - Web Search Help

    So I could do a whois on all the domains and contact each webmaster and ask nicely if I can have the links to my site removed...

    So all you need is a thousand or so domains and a site to link to and you can knock them out of Google in a week or so... and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. Have you ever tried to convince Google that you are NOT A SPAMMER... it's pretty hard seeing as they consider you guilty until proven innocent...

    Or you could just save all that hard work for the dummies and sign your competition up for some really sweet advertising with these dirt bags:::
    https://advertiser.adknowledge.com/Signup?

    Wait till some of you get this notice:::
    "Only after there has been a significant decrease in unnatural linking will we consider reviewing your reconsideration request again. "

    And then a list like this in your Google Account to contend with as your jaw hits the floor:::
    {{ Actual Domains From My List Of Linking Domains Inside The Google Webmaster Tools Area }}
    campgearhub.info
    jpshoestrendz.info
    shoppworld.info
    campgearsmart.info
    ishoeconnection.info
    apparelzshopia.info
    shopperxy.info
    shoesaleland.info
    ishoepoint.info
    nvrdgwhit.info
    zoomcrnpro.info
    campngearbuzz.info
    vinylrtrctblplstic.info
    campgearsinfos.info
    bsscnturyclm.info
    ninghed-perr-kka.info
    apparelzcorp.info
    glsstotwdding.info
    shopperville.info
    nokinightth.info
    ishoecorp.info
    brklysndpro.info
    prsonlizdspcilswt.info
    ndjrstiny.info
    zoomusbhrt.info
    strikjrshi.info
    campngearreview.info
    ibuybagzdepot.info
    ibuybagzdiscounts.info
    dfstorestuff.info
    bsscnstnd.info
    bsscmoon.info
    nuticlhispro.info
    jvcidodg.info
    spnishhrdbith.info
    peachyprize.info
    bombrpintsj.info
    prsonlizdrconfndr.info
    applvprsnalizd.info
    bssclsph.info
    istyle411.info
    bssxtrmconfssions.info
    bssbgspro.info
    clothesietc.info
    rbicminnownpkins.info
    prsonlizdmodlth.info
    johnsonplntblskin.info
    bssclplstic.info
    shopshoes1.info
    smsungtinsm.info
    allcloseoutbuysstore.info
    josispnish.info
    uistoregears.info
    dsignrxpspr.info
    buttrflyjighdsfortun.info
    heavyweightsavings.info
    mnspncilthrd.info
    tbitsvlntins.info
    normnstndrdoriginl.info
    isnowgearzcentral.info
    smokwithpro.info
    vidshrimpbaby.info
    snowgearportal.info
    wintergearzaccess.info
    phnyvasf.info
    crmmtrlapr.info
    prsnalizdbxsth.info
    brklysbwdding.info
    bssbnzho.info
    edeals-le7r6.info
    ctsnowking.info
    unparalleledvalue.info
    spnishblspro.info
    nokistockingsspic.info
    nstraight.info
    marvellousdiscount.info
    nrthlandnitpr.info
    cofvorslucky.info
    cornzrpro.info
    victrydrsssx.info
    brassair.info
    glpssgssword.info
    prsonlizdozpro.info
    mininylnpr.info
    bassiiipr.info
    e75off-xdae.info
    prsonlizdtrophypro.info
    gunmtlkliclthr.info
    prsonlizdlssonpowrbit.info
    snowgearzsupply.info
    nkiainspd.info
    mstadbrakjlly.info
    bssmrgrittckl.info
    rlxrodntbbq.info
    ntbaitsbking.info
    promoonline.info
    raresavings.info
    basswrmpppr.info
    moldpltdsris.info
    dplqum.info
    jwlcrankbaitsfinss.info
    prsnalizdspnspr.info
    bmbrdbltxas.info
    apparelztrendz.info
    gmblrlzrspoon.info
    jhnsnstrikryamamt.info
    1webdir.info
    idealpresent.info
    czchhndsnowflk.info
    snowactivityzportal.info
    rdcamryglf.info
    plasticalinlv.info
    bssicrnkbits.info
    gmktsuspoonslollipop.info
    jackjigricssn.info
    lindybnztrribl.info
    gingrbrdbitsdibtic.info
    glvndnchnill.info
    samsngrsinwdding.info
    snowgearzpoint.info
    shopshoemart.info
    offshornovwthr.info
    bassplatdjnsn.info
    comparegiveawaybuyshub.info
    cnonsclw.info
    damaskchildcrss.info
    strikroostrdivs.info
    ffshrtailpr.info
    wintergearzcom.info
    prloocompny.info
    snowgearfuncafe.info
    clarjigpr.info
    prsonlizdcivicsilicon.info
    xclusivsonicpowrbit.info
    zmdvillwhit.info
    strikbouncrfvor.info
    snowgearzcom.info
    greatdeals-8kcr.info
    sfthadstzn.info
    wddingxpsplaying.info
    bsscspro.info
    freshshopnventure.info
    refertus.info
    monumental-present-spotter55.info
    coffscpls.info
    bttsrmsft.info
    rplcmntmdxstorytlling.info
    miniblackanglr.info
    frshwatrnitcrdll.info
    mannxpsbrigadir.info
    9reb-ibigsale.info
    bssttchins.info
    brasscustm.info
    dystyleaccess.info
    eshopzcentral.info
    slstakking.info
    kulstndrdpcock.info
    soccrswivlhi.info
    ishopinsiders.info
    jfappareldock.info
    basschargrball.info
    fastshopland.info
    portmysilicon.info
    blukitchnmobil.info
    ptrioticlctrflis.info
    strikjackprt.info
    thplquspinning.info
    neatpresent48.info
    signturfvorsking.info
    kjstorenow.info
    brklyrattlinmirrlr.info
    gsithpro.info
    prsonlizdkswivl.info
    joyfuldiscount.info
    checkdiscountbuyshub.info
    pnthrmrshllt.info
    buybagzpulse.info
    aglfirpr.info
    bsshomtorndo.info
    applslidwmn.info
    bnslvssqar.info
    alphawindsurfing.info
    couponscouponbargain.info
    snowgearfunhouse.info
    uistorehouse.info
    channltigrs.info
    strikbagst.info
    motorcyclescloseout.info
    thblzrv.info
    substantial-deal-scrounger46.info
    minrlgrntsprsonlizd.info
    basstrnamntmatchs.info
    manntmblrsmanas.info
    digbts.info
    brklylathrkpr.info
    byahsbglp.info
    rlshop4sale.info
    jordnwhitxtrm.info
    swellgift.info
    silvrcrnkbitsbumbl.info
    harttrailrspr.info
    unbeatenbuying.info
    homeinteriordepots.info
    scrnpopprsigntur.info
    hllistrbnzpr.info
    basspackfll.info
    warpaprbrglars.info
    prtwildmystry.info
    kjstorevillage.info
    isnowgearz411.info
    smsungtpstingr.info
    individalsqirminsft.info
    jcksocksymmoto.info
    bssxpspowrbit.info
    snowsgeari.info

    Those domains don't lie... 90% of them are HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden and the others are spammy blogs... and Google see's about 9 links on each domain to my site...

    It doesn't matter what type of links they are... the bottom line is this::::::

    Google has put in place an algorithmic change that effectively gives anyone the power to go around putting up BADLINKS to a competitors site and get them penalized... and that is outrageous to say the least....

    Last edited by AddHandler; March 11th, 2012 at 04:29 PM.

  11. #9
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    "If Google sees a bunch of links to your site on a bunch of other sites that do NOT have the rel="nofollow" attribute set... your site will get penalized.""

    Period..."

    That's just flat out false. It's just way too general of a statement. Most of my sites are like that and they're doing fine. It's natural for sites to link out to other sites, that's how the internet works. And most of those links are regular links. We wouldn't have much of an index if what you said were true. Again, if all those links are for spammy type sites, that's one thing, and one thing we actually agree on, reread what I said about bowling. If those links are from regular sites, that do not have the nofollow, those are fine.

    The problem with your statement is "bunch of links"

    That needs to be more specific, defined.

    I could make a new site, have a press release, gets picked up, people like it, think it's a great idea/site and I get a "bunch of links" but from good sites, sites that have been around, sites that have some "authority" etc. My site, with all those links, will be just fine.

    Now, if you have a new site and all those links are from crap sites, spammy sites, you're more likely to have issues. I see on forums such as domain forums, people selling 500 links or even thousands of links, and they're either profile links or some blogger links etc. Crap links basically and that kind of thing is going to raise some flags.

    Your statement is just too general.
    Last edited by Trust; March 11th, 2012 at 04:44 PM.

  12. #10
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    The only thing I can think to do is to try to block these domains from passing any page rank by adding this PHP code to the header of my site:::

    PHP Code:
    <?PHP
    $referer
    =@$HTTP_REFERER;
    if(
    preg_match("/.tk/i"$referer)
    or 
    preg_match("/.info/i"$referer)
    or 
    preg_match("/.cc/i"$referer)
    or 
    preg_match("/.de/i"$referer)
    or 
    preg_match("/.se/i"$referer)
    or 
    preg_match("/.biz/i"$referer)
    or 
    preg_match("/.cx/i"$referer)
    ) { 
    header('Location: http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx/'); ; }
    ?>
    I don't really know if that will help or not... but anything is worth a try.. at this point I have nothing to lose because I am not found in Google...
    Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; March 12th, 2012 at 11:52 AM. Reason: Edited at OP's request

  13. #11
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust View Post
    The problem with your statement is "bunch of links"
    That's just semantics the focus should be on the entire message...

    Maybe it should read "bunch of bad links"... sorry..

    The point is this::

    Google has put in place an algorithmic change that effectively gives anyone the power to go around putting up BADLINKS
    to a competitors site and get them penalized... and that is outrageous to say the least....


    So let's get back to a "bunch of BAD links"

    I open a new site... put out a few press releases and someone reads it... visits my site and absolutely LOVES everything they see... So they start linking to me from all of their domains... without the rel="nofollow" in the links... too many of those could be considered BAD... a few maybe is not so BAD...

    But the point is... there is no way to tell... no way to gauge whether a link will hurt or help... or how many links is good or bad... and they have given your competitors a way to penalize your site with a few LINKS in PLACES...

    Look at this:
    Paid links - Webmaster Tools Help
    "Not all paid links violate our guidelines. Buying and selling links is a normal part of the economy of the web when done for advertising purposes, and not for manipulation of search results. Links purchased for advertising should be designated as such. This can be done in several ways, such as:

    Adding a rel="nofollow" attribute to the <a> tag
    Redirecting the links to an intermediate page that is blocked from search engines with a robots.txt file

    Google works hard to ensure that it fully discounts links intended to manipulate search engine results, such as excessive link exchanges and purchased links that pass PageRank. If you see a site that is buying or selling links that pass PageRank, let us know. We'll use your information to improve our algorithmic detection of such links.
    "

    So I read that like this::

    If you want to get your competitors site penalized for bad links... all you have to do is put up a bunch of links that look bad to google.. excessive link exchanges without the rel="nofollow" in the links... or links that look like they are PAID links without the rel="nofollow" attribute set... then report them to us and we'll penalize them..

    =======================================
    My site is proof that this CAN happen... I never put links up to my site anywhere... not ever...

    Not in a forum post...
    Not in a signature any where...
    Not in a link directory...
    Not in a shoe box...
    Not in-between pancakes with maple syrup...
    Never paid for any advertising...
    Never exchanged any links ever...

    And I have hundreds of BAD LINKS every where...
    So it is 100% possible that this could happen to YOU.... yes YOU... anyone reading this post with a website that they depend on to make a living... You are at the mercy of your competition now because of Google Algorithm Change. That is a FACT... cause I am living proof...


  14. #12
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Prefer to redirect all unwanted traffic / referrers to:

    Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | Home

    or

    FBI — Homepage

    Seriously...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

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  16. #13
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Any way...
    What I plan on doing is contacting::
    https://advertiser.adknowledge.com/Signup?

    And find out if anyone has signed my site up for some advertising there and if so WHO...
    I think I already know WHO that is... over the past few years I have noticed a huge bad apple presence around me in the SERPs and now THEY are the only ones there and I am gone.... http://www.abestweb.com/forums/searc...ch-153317.html

    I have been fighting a losing battle against the counterfeit sites around me and now they have eliminated me from the SERPs... they attacked my site on Black Friday weekend with a MySQL injection / DDOS Attack and my site was down until the following Tuesday...(Biggest Shopping Days Of The Year a coincidence I think NOT)... my server management said that the attacks were coming from CHINA so go figure.... Every time we tried to stop it... they moved and did it again... it was on and off for days costing me thousands of dollars...

    SO I am dealing with some shady bastards that do not play by any set of rules... and Google LOVES THEM because they aren't AFFILIATES they are only selling counterfeit goods... go figure the "quality in those SERPs"...

    So I guess I am seeing this from a slightly different biased angry angle and It doesn't look good for me...


    OMG that little ICON still says TODD... (Todd from CJ)
    That brings back memories and a lot of them... CHEERS...!!

  17. #14
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust View Post
    Again, if all those links are for spammy type sites, that's one thing, and one thing we actually agree on, reread what I said about bowling. If those links are from regular sites, that do not have the nofollow, those are fine.
    What exactly is a regular site...???

    Look at these sites that Google Pointed out to me specifically...
    ===========
    To illustrate how these articles could apply to you, here are examples of pages that contain inorganic links to your site:
    TWiT Town Commons - Profile of stu00028
    View Profile: brown00031 - Conceiva Software Forums
    =========

    There was one link to my site from a profile in both of those forums...
    ONE LINK.... without the rel="nofollow" in it and Google flagged both of them as BAD....

    How many forums are out there...?? How long would it take you to sign-up to a forum and put links in your signature...?? How many days would you dedicate to doing this until your competition was gone...??

    If you never use that profile to post to that forum you will probably never be banned for being a spammer... yet the links are still there... and Google will find them.

    And the people that still have their links in their signatures in ABW without using the rel="nofollow" tag... are asking to be penalized... especially if they post A LOT...

    This algorithm change is bad for everyone... and it opens the doors for anyone to SPAM a link to your site.... and they can do it from just about anywhere that allows links to be posted. If the links are posted by anonymous posters in forums... there is no way to track who is doing it...

    It's just wrong to penalize site owners for something that is basically out of their control... It is wrong to allow your competitors to have the ability to affect your listings in any way shape or form... no matter what. If Google detects BAD LINKS... then they should do what they have done in the past... IGNORE THEM.. and keep moving.


  18. #15
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    All you have to do is look for a script to spam blogs and use that to spam links to your competitors sites and
    they won't be able to do anything about it BUT try their best to clean up the mess you made..

    script for spamming blogs - Google Search

    Anyone want to do a test to see if we can knock out a site that has a #1 listing in Google..??
    How about Home - Sesame Street that would make some serious headlines wouldn't it...??

    We could document every step we take to prove that Google has royally messed things up for businesses everywhere...

    Ahhhh... we'd get in trouble somehow... and I like Sesame Street too much...!!!

    ===================
    BUT THE POINT IS ==== WE COULD DO IT.....

  19. #16
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    After further research I found that the .INFO domains are ALL registered "By Proxy" With GoDaddy.com. I called them and explained to them the problem and they suggested I send a detailed message to their abuse department. So I am including the Google Reconsideration message that explains the fact that hundreds of domains are linking to my site (yet cannot be accessed) and see what if anything they can do...

    More news at 11........

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  21. #17
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    I am trying to get all the DOT.TK domains taken down...
    But it seems that they already are... here is the message I get when I do a whois for the dot.tk domain bylandersewell.tk

    Your selected domain name is a domain name that has been cancelled, suspended, refused or reserved at the Dot TK Registry.
    It may be available for re-registration at Dot TK - Renaming The Internet.


    In the interim, the rights for this domain have been automatically transferred to:
    Malo Ni Advertising Limited
    16 Peel Road
    Douglas IM1 4LR
    Isle of Man


    So Malo Ni Advertising Limited is who they assign the domains to that have been cancelled due to SPAM or other garbage....

    That is strange... because those domains all redirect to::
    http://searchmagnified.com

    And those domains still show in my Google Account as having links to my site... which is strange....

    I also found out that all 215 .INFO domains that are linking to me are registered BY PROXY with GoDaddy.com...
    So I sent their ABUSE DEPT a detailed message of exactly what these domains are doing...
    AND I copied in THE GOOGLE QUALITY SEARCH TEAM... so that they could see that I am trying to get this situation resolved.

    ===============================================
    I can kind of see some of the points that TRUST and MARKYMARK are pointing out here... but from what I see... all it takes to get someone penalized is::

    Around 800 individual domains...
    And about 9 links to the TARGET SITE on each domain...
    Which equals 7200 UNNATURAL LINKS to the domain you want to get penalized...


    I have 200 domains and there are people around here that have well over 1000 domains.... so they already have what it takes to take advantage of this new algorithm change and get their competition kicked out of the SERPs...

    I am sure that there are other things involved with the algorithm like how long it takes to get those 7200 links... If Googlebot crawls one day and you have 10 links coming in... and the next day you have 7200 links coming in... that is pretty UNNATURAL unless for some reason they are all coming from a Social Network or YOUTUBE as in a VIRAL post/video or something like that...

    I don't know anything but this:::
    The algorithm change can be used against other sites without their knowledge as is the case with my site... and if any of you suddenly see 7200 incoming UNNATURAL links to your site... then and only then will you understand how difficult it is to get this taken care of when you didn't have anything to do with it in the first place... and how unfair this algorithm change is to every site doing business honestly...

    And the story continues....
    (I'll keep updating this post until I get this resolved or die trying...)

  22. #18
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    Letter from Google....
    LETTER FROM GOOGLE::::::::

    Hello AddHandler,

    Thank you for your follow-up information.

    We've looked into your case again, and unfortunately there are still many inorganic links pointing to your site. At this point, we believe we’ve evaluated these links appropriately, and no further action from us is required. Please note that we try to be granular in our actions, which are intended to discount inorganic links while preserving organic recommendations.

    Regardless of who created the links, in order to protect the quality of our search results, we have taken action to reduce the trust of inorganic links to your site. (1) Webspam techniques such as link schemes attempt to trick our systems into ranking sites higher than they should, which can affect our ability to provide high-quality search results to our users.

    We know that perhaps not every link can be cleaned up, but in order to deem a reconsideration request as successful, we need to see a substantial good-faith effort to remove the links, and this effort should result in a decrease in the number of bad links that we see. (2) You might consider reaching out to the webmasters of the sites with the inorganic links on them. For advice on how to go about contacting them, read Contact a site's webmaster - Web Search Help.

    Once you are confident that you have done everything you can to remove these links, please reply to this email with the details of your clean-up effort.


    So by reading the parts in BOLD I understand that as meaning::
    (1) - We understand that this algorithm change can be used by others to penalize your site... yet we are refusing to officially acknowledge that and will not give you any way of blocking these sites from affecting your ranking... Keep trying to clean up the mess and get back to us when it all fails miserably so we can send you another sweet sounding rejection letter...

    (2) - It doesn't matter where these links are and it doesn't matter if the domains are all privately registered and do not respond to emails or messages sent or do not provide any correct contact information -- you will remove those links or you will never see another Google SERP again...


    And the story continues....
    (I'll keep updating this post until I get this resolved or die trying...)

  23. #19
    Influencer Marketing GravityFed's Avatar
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    AH, for what it's worth (and regardless of their response you posted, etc.) ..DO NOT abandon your domain. I have seen domains fall off the charts for reasons out of my control, but they always come back IF you are putting out good content.

    I know it's frustrating now, but hopefully Google will improve on the unintended casualties of the Panda updates and fix some of the mess they have made lately. IMO I also think they missed the mark in a lot of ways with recent updates. I was looking for a business last week in Park City and a SERP at the top of the index showed a citysearch page with an address on it 6 years outdated. Nice work G

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  25. #20
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Thanks for the words of encouragement Gary.. =)
    As you can probably "see" I am losing ground and dying fast...
    ================================================

    Well I got a message back from the abuse dept at DOT.TK....
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dot TK Support replied:
    Dear Sir,
    The domains you have listed are cancelled and showing our parking/advertisement pages. If you do a search on
    McAfee SiteAdvisor for the advertisement websites you mentioned, you get the following results (cut & pasted from McAfee SiteAdvisor):

    adknowledge.com - We tested this site and didn't find any significant problems.
    bidsystem.com - We tested this site and didn't find any significant problems.
    searchmagnified.com - We tested this site and didn't find any significant problems.

    Kind regards,
    Dot TK Support
    =========================================================


    So DOT.TK offers FREE domains... and when they get reports of one of the free domains being used in abusive ways they "cancel" the domain and redirect it to "SearchMagnified.com with their PID" so instead of shutting the domain down and showing a 404... they try to profit from the traffic these sites have from being used in abusive ways. What they need to do is shut them down and return a 404 so that the "abuse" doesn't continue well after the domain is shut down. Because that garbage is still ABUSIVE::::
    http://www.bylandersewell.tk

    SearchMagnified.com is privately registered of course:::
    searchmagnified.com WHOIS domain registration information from Network Solutions

    So I sent DOT.TK another email asking who serves up the advertising on SearchMagnified.com and I am waiting for a response...

    But it looks to me like the ads they are running are being served up by:::
    adknowledge.com see also:: Miva.com
    And when you try to contact them::
    The 1-866 number in the footer is "not in service"
    and the only "office" I could get to answer a phone was the Los Angeles office.
    Which answered with a computer that just asked for a name of the person you want to talk to and no other options... so I asked for Jim Smith... To See if I could get lucky... and I did... I got a Jim Musial in the advertising department. I explained to him what the situation is and he took my name and number.. said he would investigate and I am waiting for some kind of response. (I'll probably never hear anything back...)

    Hopefully he can tell me if my domain is "signed up" for any kind of advertising package and if so WHO signed my site up for this garbage...

    I really don't know how you would go about getting signed up for this crap...
    if you look here: Contact | MIVA.com
    Dial all those numbers... you get an automated message asking you what party you would like and are prompted to say a name... and then you get a voice mail or nothing...
    ================================


    Everything is just a big loop and I can't really get to the bottom of this... I seem to be getting closer but all it takes is one person to ignore my message and I am out of luck... This is a total nightmare and if I would have PAID someone to do this... don't you think I would call them up and ask them to STOP...

    It is just ridiculous that we are now responsible for every single link out there pointing to our sites... it opens up a huge can of worms that don't really need to be opened... Google was doing just fine a year ago... IGNORING BAD or UNNATURAL links NOT Giving them any credit and NOT passing any credit to other sites...

    They are only targeting other advertisers and other advertising companies and deciding that pretty much all of the advertising companies that compete with them are using "BAD or UNNATURAL LINKS"... when they are all basically the same as ADSENSE.... ( and the sites serving up the adsense sites are just as spammy as any of the rest of them )

    They certainly don't care about the REAL ISSUES which are the THOUSANDS of counterfeit sites totally taking over the SERPs.......
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Cheap+UGG
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Cheap+Moncler
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Cheap+North+Face
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Cheap+Columbia+Jackets
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Cheap+Nike
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Cheap+Ed+Hardy
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Cheap+Athletic+jerseys

    Basically any search containing the word CHEAP shows a lot of domains violating trademark laws and obviously selling counterfeit goods...
    and it has been going on for years... and has been reported HUNDREDS of times to Google... Spam Reported in Google Groups (9/29/09)

    They hide behind the constitution on that one... FREEDOM of SPEECH they say... "We can't censor the internet"...

    Yet they censor their competition every single second... and say they are trying to show QUALITY RESULTS for their USERS.... and responding to USER FEEDBACK....

    Don't you think that the users would appreciate NOT being shown hundreds of counterfeit sites that rip every single person that shops at their site off...?? I think THAT would rank up there with QUALITY...???



    ----------
    But I am getting off topic (kind of)... I gotta get busy trying to remove links and find out how to stop this garbage....

  26. #21
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    I can certainly feel your pain Addhandler, just by reading your post after post struggling with the problem. Although I'm not experiencing the same unfortunate situation as you did, I do realize it could happened to any of us at any time.

    Sounds like you've done everything you could in your power, but ends nowhere. I feel sorry for you.

    Our business rely too much on G's mercy. Theoretically, diversifying the traffic is the way to go, but there is really not much to diversify giving the dominant search engine market share of G. Once a site was labeled, it is hard, if possible, to get it back on top.

    Don't abandon the domain that you've worked so hard on. Have you set up a Bing webmaster tool and see if it gets traffic from Bing? Some other small search engines might pick up your site too. Just my 2 cents.

  27. #22
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    How about this...

    What if all those crappy incoming links you have/had actually was in large part responsible for your previous better ranking?

    And then when those domains turn into redirects, or get taken down, or get penalized by google... then your site goes back down to where it would rank with few or no legitimate links?
    After all, google mentioned about lowering the trust of your inorganic or unnatural links.

    I think what seems like a penalty in some cases is more like 'collateral damage'. if you get some 'better' links, your site may go back up in rank.

    As for those counterfeit sites, if you check, they have almost all inorganic or unnatural links. (what legitimate sites would like to them?) But it doesn't seem to be hurting their rank!

  28. #23
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    mayfly Thanks for the encouragement and I agree... I am in Bing and Yahoo in the number one spot... for now... But I do see my links in BING drying up and that will bleed down to Yahoo soon...

    I have pretty much exhausted all efforts... all domains are either shut down or are privately registered... so there isn't much more I can do. I finally did get a hold of some guy at adknowledge.com and miva.com both the same company.. and they told me that there was no way for them to tell if someone had links up advertising my domain... no way to search the "system" for a particular domain... only an advertiser... so unless I know WHO IT IS FIRST.... they can't help me at all... = BRICK WALL....

    So....
    Being the crazy dude that I am I decided I would exhaust all my efforts - show Google I am trying to figure this whole thing out (kiss their butts) and then send them a VIDEO...

    I am going to sit down and put together a short two minute video showing whoever is at Google that I am not some dirtbag scammer POS... I am just a guy in Alaska trying to make a living... Show them my dogs... my address on my mailbox and show that it matches all my domain registration information etc... show them all the tons of snow we have right now and basically beg them to put a FACE with the DOMAIN and maybe they will see that I am not some Corporate Weasel trying to scam the SERPs out of a few extra clicks.... That is going to be my last ditch effort... hopefully they will put a face with the domain and believe me... sometimes an email just doesn't cut it...

    That is all I can do at this point....
    Wish me luck....

  29. #24
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simcat View Post
    How about this...
    What if all those crappy incoming links you have/had actually was in large part responsible for your previous better ranking?
    That isn't possible... simply because until around September 1st of 2011 I had less than 50 incoming links to my site... a few .EDU domains... the WashingtonPost.com.... DenverBroncos.com.... and a few other pretty high ranking nice authority sites...

    Until I saw the 800 or so domains that have between 1-12 links to my site... I was doing GREAT... and pretty much stayed on top of everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by simcat View Post
    As for those counterfeit sites, if you check, they have almost all inorganic or unnatural links. (what legitimate sites would like to them?) But it doesn't seem to be hurting their rank!
    I agree and I can only assume WHY... first of all they don't have ANY advertising on their sites at all and they ALL have shopping carts which is a BIG DEAL with Google as far as I can tell... if you have a shopping cart you are on a different level than affiliate scum... But that is just my assumption...

    Plus the fact that anyone that sees a SERP filled to the brim with counterfeit sites like you see here >> https://www.google.com/search?q=cheap+moncler+jackets
    Either leaves through an ADSENSE advert or does another search which either way is a WIN WIN for Google.... they simply have no reason to remove sites that generate more clicks to their own advertisers... and they hide behind The Constitution of the United States - Freedom Of Speech which is BS...

    That alone earns Google a BIG MINUS 10 in my book... but like MayFly said we are at their mercy... that is why we need some regulation... but that is another topic...

  30. #25
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    Yeah, my theory doesn't hold much water in this case, just a guess.

    I agree with you about aff. sites being held to a higher standard also. They can still rank, but it gets harder every day...

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