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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    FYI - Moosejaw blows...
    I rank pretty well for keywords in a certain niche...
    Moosejaw was no where to be found for the keywords I rank for...
    I put up some links for Moosejaw and sent them a few clicks...

    Within 3 months... Moosejaw was competing with me in a niche they had never been in before and started outranking me... so they basically saw the amount of traffic I sent and then proceeded to use that info to directly compete with me in the SERPs. That is not a "PARTNER"...

    Some merchants watch what affiliates do and try to compete with them in the natural search results using their merchant status to outrank their affiliates...

    Moosejaw is one of those merchants that doesn't work WITH an affiliate they just try to copy what you do... so putting up links to Moosejaw is like letting the Fox in the Hen house... Watch out for greedy scheming merchants that try underhanded sneaky ways to cut the affiliate out of the loop...

    Moosejaw = BAD NEWS = Shady Bastard Merchant....
    Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; April 8th, 2012 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Link baiting

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    Not following.

    "I put up some links for Moosejaw and sent them a few clicks..."

    "Moosejaw was competing with me in a niche they had never been in before and started outranking me."

    You were sending them traffic for something they didn't have? If they're competing with you for something, wouldn't that mean they carry it? And if they carry it, merchants usually rank well, above affiliates for products.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Moosejaw was no where to be found for the keywords I rank for...
    I put up some links to them....
    within months they were right there in the SERPs for the same keywords.
    They had NEVER been in the SE for those keywords until they saw how much traffic I was sending them... Then all of a sudden they had an entire page dedicated to THAT PARTICULAR SET OF KEYWORDS... and out ranked me. So they saw that the keywords were lucrative and decided they would start competing with me for them instead of working with me.

    So if they see that you are doing well or sending a lot of traffic for a keyword they hadn't bothered to use before... they will start using it -- dedicate an entire page to it... and out rank you.

    Basically they use affiliate information to cut the affiliate out of the loop as much as possible and they make no bones about it.

    Moosejaw blows....

  4. #4
    Outsourced Program Manager Daniel Bryant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AddHandler View Post
    Moosejaw was no where to be found for the keywords I rank for...
    I put up some links to them....
    within months they were right there in the SERPs for the same keywords.
    They had NEVER been in the SE for those keywords until they saw how much traffic I was sending them... Then all of a sudden they had an entire page dedicated to THAT PARTICULAR SET OF KEYWORDS... and out ranked me. So they saw that the keywords were lucrative and decided they would start competing with me for them instead of working with me.

    So if they see that you are doing well or sending a lot of traffic for a keyword they hadn't bothered to use before... they will start using it -- dedicate an entire page to it... and out rank you.

    Basically they use affiliate information to cut the affiliate out of the loop as much as possible and they make no bones about it.

    Moosejaw blows....

    AddHandler,

    Thanks for your feedback on your experience with our affiliate program. Our goal is to provide the best gear and outerwear in the world and have the most fun while doing it. We work closely with our affiliates to ensure that the information provided through the networks is accurate and relevant to brands and products available on Moosejaw.com. Please reach out to me personally to discuss this issue and anything else you might want to talk about, including Mother In-Laws, NYTimes crossword answers, and why there isn't a word to rhyme with orange.

    Thanks,

    Daniel
    daniel@schaafpc.com

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bryant View Post
    AddHandler,

    Thanks for your feedback on your experience with our affiliate program. Our goal is to provide the best gear and outerwear in the world and have the most fun while doing it. We work closely with our affiliates to ensure that the information provided through the networks is accurate and relevant to brands and products available on Moosejaw.com. Please reach out to me personally to discuss this issue and anything else you might want to talk about, including Mother In-Laws, NYTimes crossword answers, and why there isn't a word to rhyme with orange.

    Thanks,

    Daniel
    daniel@schaafpc.com
    Thanks for bumping this thread (with a bizare reply) - I missed it the first time around.

    AddHandler, I feel your pain, I too have had merchants learn from my campaigns, make changes to their sites and capture (what was) my traffic. Unfortunately, this is another one of those Affiliate grey (gray) areas where it could be read either way. It seems more and more lately that the delicate affiliate/merchant balance always tips in the favour of the merchant. In my case(s) they were smaller merchants and, more often than not, in-house programs so it was not a big surprise - but for a larger program to pull the same trick? That's not very "partner-like". At least we have the flexibility to pull up stakes fast and move - something I am getting very tired of having to do on a regular basis. Thanks for the info. It's food for thought next time I need a merchant whos "goal is to provide the best gear and outerwear in the world and have the most fun while doing it"...
    When the only tool you have is a hammer - everything looks like a nail.

  6. #6
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bryant
    ......discuss this issue and anything else you might want to talk about, including Mother In-Laws, NYTimes crossword answers, and why there isn't a word to rhyme with orange......
    The use of "porridge" to quiet a squeaky "door hinge" may work - and may come close, but neither exactly rhymes with "orange."

    On the other hand there are other companies (to promote) that sell great gear and outerwear - maybe with less fun but, possibly, more business acumen - mothers-in-law not withstanding. Just sayin...
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

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  8. #7
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Daniel...
    Not much you can do... Moosejaw isn't going to pull their page just because of this... they KNEW I would KNOW what they did when they did it... and obviously didn't care then, so they really won't care now that they have DATA to go through and sales to attach to that page... there is no chance of them ever backing away from it just because I called them out on their BS. After all it was well over a million dollars a year in sales so there was THAT temptation... greed just got in the way of Moosejaw being honest and working with their affiliate... and I don't know any affiliates that would put up links to a merchant that will basically cut them out of the loop altogether when the affiliate becomes successful ESPECIALLY if they are WARNED ahead of time.

    The people at Moosejaw know exactly what page I am talking about...

    ATTENTION AFFILIATES!!
    You have to choose your merchants wisely when you are a serious affiliate and intend on making this a "REAL JOB"... because you ARE an affiliate with very little protection... once you sign the affiliate agreement and start sending clicks there is NOTHING their to protect YOU or YOUR BUSINESS... their is no agreement the MERCHANT signs saying that they won't steal your ideas and hard work and use the data you trusted to them to cut you out of the loop. There is virtually NOTHING there to protect the AFFILIATE not one thing.... so choosing who you give your data to is probably the single most important thing you can do as an affiliate... and of course on the merchant end using affiliate data to cut the affiliate out of the loop is probably the single most slimiest dirtiest thing you can do.

    :::WARNING WARNING WARNING:::
    I just wanted other affiliates to know that putting up links to Moosejaw and
    giving them access to your click/traffic/keyword info is a pretty HUGE RISK

    SEND TRAFFIC TO MOOSEJAW AT YOUR OWN RISK



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