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  1. #1
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Another Termination
    After reviewing your performance for the past two years, we have noticed you have made no sales. This hurts our EPC and causes other affiliates to reconsider working with us.

    We are expiring your affiliation with 39DollarGlasses.com.


    That's not quite correct. I believe I had a sale last year that was reversed!

    Nevertheless, i don't remember the program reaching out to me, not that they have to.
    Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; May 3rd, 2012 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Link baiting

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador writerguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibby View Post
    [I][I] ... This hurts our EPC and causes other affiliates to reconsider working with us.
    I especially like that part. In other words: "We do NOT want affiliates judging our program by results. We can only get affiliates and keep them if we woo them in ignorance and fool them into believing they can make money with us."

    Cracked me up!

    Gary
    Generate more fake news.


  3. #3
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by writerguy View Post
    I especially like that part. In other words: "We do NOT want affiliates judging our program by results. We can only get affiliates and keep them if we woo them in ignorance and fool them into believing they can make money with us."

    Cracked me up!

    Gary
    Yeah, I couldn't resist posting the message. It's one of the most idiotic I've received so far.

  4. #4
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    I want to send them an email saying that I'm interested in their program but their EPC sucks too badly.


    j/k

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  6. #5
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    EPC is and always has been a purely bullshyte metric. Merchants/AM's who rely on EPC figures as an arbiter of anything at all are nothing but a liability to their own business and to affiliate marketing; you're better off without them anyway.
    CUSTOM BANNERS by GRAPHICS CANDY ~ Banner Sets and Website Graphics ~ Professional design, reasonable rates
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  7. #6
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Haven't received the email yet, but shoulda . . . maybe later.

  8. #7
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    EPC is and always has been a purely bullshyte metric. Merchants/AM's who rely on EPC figures as an arbiter of anything at all are nothing but a liability to their own business and to affiliate marketing; you're better off without them anyway.
    I agree and disagree. I monitor the EPC if my programs to watch the health of the program. There are many factors on a merchant site that can effect its health. We just saw EPC dip in one program and noticed a long awaited one-click cart was implemented. Now we are testing tracking and running test orders. Using EPC in this case as a backup metric.

    Because seasonality can greatly effect EPC you have to check against like programs in the same network. Where I saw it fail was reviewing hosting programs years ago and seeing EPC of $300+ whereas Yahoo hosting was around $10. That was before Yahoo segmented their programs so everything was lumped together. In that case EPC failed to represent the difference between programs.

    I have had affiliate tell me to take my new program and pack it in as it had an EPC of $25 and the top program was $150. They said they weren't going to move converting traffic to a new merchant because they would lose money. In that case they were right as it was an apples-to-apples comparison.

    As for removing an affiliate due to low EPC if the Affiliate Manager didn't spend the time to work with you directly they are just pushing numbers. You are better off going some where else as its not a partnership but a dictate. In this case EPC has been used against you and its a failure.

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  10. #8
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herb ԿԬ View Post
    Haven't received the email yet, but shoulda . . . maybe later.
    The email was sent to my internal CJ mail.

  11. #9
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    Maybe it's because my main efforts are in such a tight niche but...

    EPC means nothing to me when searching for a merchant. I have established traffic to my site, so when I find a merchant in my niche, I can send them traffic and quickly see for myself how much success I'm going to have.

    It kind of reminds me of people ranking their success by looking at Alexa stats. Especially if they are grooming their EPC by removing terrible affiliates like Bibby j/k

    The more important numbers for me would be reversal rates, commission amounts, cookie length and number of occurrences, and if the merchant is willing to work with me.

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  13. #10
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calebtheredwood View Post
    Maybe it's because my main efforts are in such a tight niche but...

    EPC means nothing to me when searching for a merchant. I have established traffic to my site, so when I find a merchant in my niche, I can send them traffic and quickly see for myself how much success I'm going to have.

    It kind of reminds me of people ranking their success by looking at Alexa stats. Especially if they are grooming their EPC by removing terrible affiliates like Bibby j/k

    The more important numbers for me would be reversal rates, commission amounts, cookie length and number of occurrences, and if the merchant is willing to work with me.
    I'm with you and use the same type of criteria.

    I also agree with Chuck that maybe, sometimes EPC plays a role but if all the merchant does, is send you a useless termination letter, then it becomes a joke!

  14. #11
    Affiliate Manager AffiliateWarrior's Avatar
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    wow - that was badly handled. While I have let affiliates go before who were (against terms) sending traffic through cookie stuffing and forced clicks that did hash my EPC as a by product, I have never fired an affiliate only for the reasons of EPC maintenance. I have reached out to a few to ask if we could refine the approach because the traffic wasn't working out, to try to help them to dial things in a bit. If it didn't work, I'd have a friendly call to suggest that the relationship wasn't working despite our collective efforts and maybe it was time to go other directions.
    Wade Tonkin - Affiliate Manager - Fanatics
    NFLShop.com|Shop.NHL.com|NBAStore.com|Store.NASCAR.com
    Email wtonkin // at // Fanatics.com

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  16. #12
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffiliateWarrior View Post
    wow - that was badly handled. While I have let affiliates go before who were (against terms) sending traffic through cookie stuffing and forced clicks that did hash my EPC as a by product, I have never fired an affiliate only for the reasons of EPC maintenance. I have reached out to a few to ask if we could refine the approach because the traffic wasn't working out, to try to help them to dial things in a bit. If it didn't work, I'd have a friendly call to suggest that the relationship wasn't working despite our collective efforts and maybe it was time to go other directions.
    Wade I do believe I've talked with you through emails about certain approaches to take and you've always responded and provided guidance. I wish the merchant in this case would have been more open to that type of communication.

  17. #13
    Affiliate Manager AffiliateWarrior's Avatar
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    Their email to explain the issue was horrible - we're canning you to improve our EPC? wow.
    Just wow.
    Wade Tonkin - Affiliate Manager - Fanatics
    NFLShop.com|Shop.NHL.com|NBAStore.com|Store.NASCAR.com
    Email wtonkin // at // Fanatics.com

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  19. #14
    ABW Ambassador Abigail's Avatar
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    just thought i'd share this with you guys, it somehow seems it could be part of the problem for some situations - a few days ago i noticed 55,000 click thru's in a 4 hour period, in the performance report, for one of my merchants - normally 150 for the day - i contacted cj and it turned out to be some sort of bot hitting a link, the tech's gave me a number of ip's to block at the webhost - it's not the first time i've noticed something like this, but it is the most hits at one time. anyway the long and short of it is that if successfully drove down my epc from around $40 to $1.28 for the week and down to about $14 from the $40 over a 3 month span - thought it might be worth mentioning that i get an average of 5 approaches a day from random merchants looking for my business as a publisher but since that happened not a one. if you haven't been looking at the performance report regularly it might be an idea to start doing so.

  20. #15
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Ask CJ tech to remove those clicks and your EPC will go back.

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  22. #16
    ABW Ambassador Abigail's Avatar
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    Wow - the number of times this has happened not one of them has told me they can do that! I will send the request right away. Thanks Chuck!

  23. #17
    Affiliate Manager Government Auctions AM's Avatar
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    Even though I don't believe that EPC should be the sole metric used to determine the success or failure of any given affiliate program, unfortunately affiliates and merchants alike who do not take the time to do a little bit more research and delve a little deeper, see the EPC at the surface and use that as the only metric. Due to this it is understandable why at times merchants try to fight to preserve their EPC and to deal with affiliates who seem to hinder their numbers.

    It is the method with how they choose to "deal" with their affiliates that is questionable.

    This email is unacceptable regardless of whether this was the first notice sent or not. This is simply not how you build ties with affiliates or break them for that matter. I have had experiences where I have tried to let affiliates go who have failed to respond to at least 4-5 of my inquiries throughout the months. Even after this failure to respond, I would not recommend sending such an email. It will only result in situations such as this where you get bad mouthed by other industry professionals.
    Steven Shnayder
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    Join us on [URL="https://signup.cj.com/member/brandedPublisherSignUp.do?air_refmerchantid=2932365"]CJ[/URL] [URL="http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=10834"]SAS[/URL] [URL="http://www.governmentauctions.org/home/partners.asp"]ClickBank[/URL] [URL="http://twitter.com/GAORGAFFILIATES"]@GAorgAffiliates[/URL]

  24. #18
    Affiliate Manager Government Auctions AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abigail View Post
    Wow - the number of times this has happened not one of them has told me they can do that! I will send the request right away. Thanks Chuck!
    I have had CJ reverse clicks on multiple occasions. Shouldn't be a problem!
    Steven Shnayder
    [B][URL="http://www.governmentauctions.org"]GovernmentAuctions.org[/URL][/B]
    Join us on [URL="https://signup.cj.com/member/brandedPublisherSignUp.do?air_refmerchantid=2932365"]CJ[/URL] [URL="http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=10834"]SAS[/URL] [URL="http://www.governmentauctions.org/home/partners.asp"]ClickBank[/URL] [URL="http://twitter.com/GAORGAFFILIATES"]@GAorgAffiliates[/URL]

  25. #19
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Maybe my math is wrong but if I had no sales and very few clicks, how would that effect the EPC. They could argue I'm inactive but inactivity shouldn't factor into the EPC, right?

  26. #20
    Affiliate Manager Government Auctions AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibby View Post
    Maybe my math is wrong but if I had no sales and very few clicks, how would that effect the EPC. They could argue I'm inactive but inactivity shouldn't factor into the EPC, right?
    Definitely. It could be a problem if your inactivity is no sales but a moderate to high amount of clicks, which could lead to a single sale... which would then yield a low EPC.
    Steven Shnayder
    [B][URL="http://www.governmentauctions.org"]GovernmentAuctions.org[/URL][/B]
    Join us on [URL="https://signup.cj.com/member/brandedPublisherSignUp.do?air_refmerchantid=2932365"]CJ[/URL] [URL="http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=10834"]SAS[/URL] [URL="http://www.governmentauctions.org/home/partners.asp"]ClickBank[/URL] [URL="http://twitter.com/GAORGAFFILIATES"]@GAorgAffiliates[/URL]

  27. #21
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Government Auctions AM View Post
    Definitely. It could be a problem if your inactivity is no sales but a moderate to high amount of clicks, which could lead to a single sale... which would then yield a low EPC.
    What I'm saying is that if I had very few clicks, it shouldn't factor into the EPC.

  28. #22
    Affiliate Manager Government Auctions AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibby View Post
    What I'm saying is that if I had very few clicks, it shouldn't factor into the EPC.
    Right.
    Steven Shnayder
    [B][URL="http://www.governmentauctions.org"]GovernmentAuctions.org[/URL][/B]
    Join us on [URL="https://signup.cj.com/member/brandedPublisherSignUp.do?air_refmerchantid=2932365"]CJ[/URL] [URL="http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=10834"]SAS[/URL] [URL="http://www.governmentauctions.org/home/partners.asp"]ClickBank[/URL] [URL="http://twitter.com/GAORGAFFILIATES"]@GAorgAffiliates[/URL]

  29. #23
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    So that merchant isn't only rude but has no basis. My only sale in the past two years was reversed and I had few if any clicks. Their reason for terminating me was incorrect.

  30. #24
    Affiliate Manager AffiliateWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abigail View Post
    just thought i'd share this with you guys, it somehow seems it could be part of the problem for some situations - a few days ago i noticed 55,000 click thru's in a 4 hour period, in the performance report, for one of my merchants - normally 150 for the day - i contacted cj and it turned out to be some sort of bot hitting a link, the tech's gave me a number of ip's to block at the webhost - it's not the first time i've noticed something like this, but it is the most hits at one time. anyway the long and short of it is that if successfully drove down my epc from around $40 to $1.28 for the week and down to about $14 from the $40 over a 3 month span - thought it might be worth mentioning that i get an average of 5 approaches a day from random merchants looking for my business as a publisher but since that happened not a one. if you haven't been looking at the performance report regularly it might be an idea to start doing so.
    Same happened to me... some jackass from Japan right ? CJ techs did the same for me.
    Wade Tonkin - Affiliate Manager - Fanatics
    NFLShop.com|Shop.NHL.com|NBAStore.com|Store.NASCAR.com
    Email wtonkin // at // Fanatics.com

  31. #25
    ABW Ambassador Abigail's Avatar
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    and yes cj has agreed to accommodate me "this time" and because the merchant has agreed to it. apparently not something they want to do on a regular basis. they have been speedy on supplying offending ip's and i do appreciate that and more.

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