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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador boningroup's Avatar
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    Totally Furniture only paying commission of first $1000 of sale
    I just received an email with a commission change from a merchant on Shareasale.

    "EFFECTIVE 6/20/2012 Commission is calculated on the net sale (total sale less discounts) excluding any Sales Tax and Shipping. Commission will be paid on the first $1,000 of each completed transaction only. Orders that are cancelled, returned, uncollectable or fraudulent are not subject to receive commission. The normal commission rate is 6%. However, sites that are deemed to be a coupon site are paid at 3% unless that sale occurs within 5 minutes of the referral then the commission will be at 1.25%"

    These merchant are really finding creative ways to cut back on commission. The first $1000 of sale. If you are a coupon site, which I don't consider myself to be, if the sale is within 5 minutes of the referral 1.25% instead of 3%. What will they think of next. You only get commission if the sale is between 1-2pm and the customer's last name begins with a Q!
    Danny W Bonin Jr
    Bonin Group, Inc.

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  3. #2
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Merchant is Totally Furniture.

    Think an email is in order from us to say - "Good-Bye"...

    EDIT: the 6% up to the first $1000 was actually effective 1/1/2012. Somehow we missed that.

    EFFECTIVE 1/1/2012 Commssion is calculated on the net sale (total sale less discounts) excluding any Sales Tax and Shipping. Commission of 6% will be paid on the first $1,000 of each completed transaction only. Orders that are cancelled, returned, uncollectable or fraudulent are not subject to receive commission.
    Last edited by Convergence; June 12th, 2012 at 04:10 PM.
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

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  5. #3
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    I just login to bash the shit out of that email, because the way I read it:

    Commission will be paid on the first $1,000 of each completed transaction only.
    There is no way in hell that I would wait to make $1,000 from any merchant before I get paid from that merchant.

    But I am glad that I saw this first:

    Commission of 6% will be paid on the first $1,000 of each completed transaction only.
    I saw the email right after finishing uploading (13874) products from the datafeed, so I was cready to hit delete...

    Anyway, the way that email was written, I bet it will piss a lot of affiliates.

  6. #4
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Thumbs down
    >>>Anyway, the way that email was written, I bet it will piss a lot of affiliates.<<<

    you bet! they mean there is not enough profit in a larger transaction to pay the affiliate?

  7. #5
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    New Totally Furniture
    I just received the following terms from Totally Furniture:
    Commission will be paid on the first $1,000 of each completed transaction only. Orders that are cancelled, returned, uncollectable or fraudulent are not subject to receive commission. The normal commission rate is 6%. However, sites that are deemed to be a coupon site are paid at 3% unless that sale occurs within 5 minutes of the referral then the commission will be at 1.25%

    Are these terms serious? They are insulting and shows a lack of respect for their affiliates. What a joke.

    What are your thoughts?

  8. #6
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    I do not like the commission on the first $1,000 of each transaction. It just makes it seem like our traffic is only valuable to a cetain extent and that they just can't bear the thought of paying lowly affiliates too much.

    Personally though, I have no axe to grind with a merchant paying coupon sites a lower percentage. How many times do content affiliates lose commissions to coupon sites who add nothing to the table but a coupon?
    We did not change as we grew older; we just became more clearly ourselves.
    ~Lynn Hall

  9. #7
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Bibby,

    Perhaps you can merge / add your thread to this one:

    http://www.abestweb.com/forums/midni...le-156993.html
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  10. #8
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    Only pay first $1000 of sale? This is absolutely ridiculous.

  11. #9
    ShareASale President/CEO and ABW Veteran Brian - ShareASale's Avatar
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    Bibby (and all) - the portion that deals with coupon sites only is becoming quite common, and can often benefit all parties.

    Merchants on ShareASale can actually target the previous click and give commission to an Affiliate who sent a content based click prior to a click coming through when a customer is looking for a coupon during checkout.

    So, for example, if you have a furniture blog, send traffic to a furniture retailer on ShareASale - but the customer decides that they would like to go search for a coupon - the retailer could commission both affiliates as if they were two separate channels.

    I can't speak to their business decisions regarding the changes in terms - but what we always encourage is clear communication so that Affiliates know exactly what commission levels they receive on specific types of transactions.

    If you have any questions on the split-channel commissioning, just let me know... We did a lot of demo'ing at our ShareASale Think Tank, the Affiliate Summit, and various events over the last year or so...but would be happy to show anyone privately.
    Thanks,

    Brian Littleton
    President/CEO - ShareASale.com, Inc.

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  13. #10
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Merged and updated thread title.

    Brian I think there needs to be a mechanism to denote the site that the sale was made through i.e. coupon/deal site. Then that special commission would only apply. The way the system works now an affiliate can have 20 websites and all would get penalized.

    If terms are clearly defined and visible to affiliates they can make informed decisions. "Commission will be paid on the first $1,000 of each completed transaction only. " If this is the case then the merchant has to manually change the sales amount to change the commission. Furniture orders can top $10k and commission is part of the cost of sale. This merchant needs to determine if they want affiliates making sales otherwise should close their program.

  14. #11
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convergence View Post

    EDIT: the 6% up to the first $1000 was actually effective 1/1/2012. Somehow we missed that.
    Pulled all their emails - they don't seem to send many. Think one of the reasons we missed the $1000 cap is we were approved on 12/30/2011 - LOL.

    Didn't care for their data feed at the time so relegated them to some banner advertising. Our furniture site is scheduled for an update this summer, but they won't get added unless they change that cap...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  15. #12
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    The normal commission rate is 6%. However, sites that are deemed to be a coupon site are paid at 3% unless that sale occurs within 5 minutes of the referral then the commission will be at 1.25%"
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian - ShareASale View Post
    Bibby (and all) - the portion that deals with coupon sites only is becoming quite common, and can often benefit all parties.

    Merchants on ShareASale can actually target the previous click and give commission to an Affiliate who sent a content based click prior to a click coming through when a customer is looking for a coupon during checkout.

    So, for example, if you have a furniture blog, send traffic to a furniture retailer on ShareASale - but the customer decides that they would like to go search for a coupon - the retailer could commission both affiliates as if they were two separate channels.

    I can't speak to their business decisions regarding the changes in terms - but what we always encourage is clear communication so that Affiliates know exactly what commission levels they receive on specific types of transactions.

    If you have any questions on the split-channel commissioning, just let me know... We did a lot of demo'ing at our ShareASale Think Tank, the Affiliate Summit, and various events over the last year or so...but would be happy to show anyone privately.
    Yes, many merchants are decreasing commission amounts for coupon type sites. But, for the most part, merchants are not paying commissions to the non-coupon affiliate and the coupon affiliate. They're pocketing the difference.

    Merchants are decreasing coupon site commissions because the merchant offers coupons, have other marketing channels other than affiliate programs - like PPC - and find they are paying for their traffic twice on one sale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian - ShareASale View Post
    the portion that deals with coupon sites only is becoming quite common, and can often benefit all parties.
    Everything being said, adjusting coupon affiliate commissions CAN benefit all parties - but I wouldn't say often. Certainly doesn't look so in the case of Totally Furniture...
    Last edited by Convergence; June 13th, 2012 at 12:55 PM. Reason: spelling/grammar
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  16. #13
    ShareASale President/CEO and ABW Veteran Brian - ShareASale's Avatar
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    Chuck,

    I agree that affiliates often have a multitude of sites... But I would disagree that it is common for an affiliate to find themselves in a situation where they've been tagged as a "coupon" affiliate but are actually sending non-coupon related traffic.

    This doesn't happen that often and can be solved with communication. The majority of the issue arises with affiliate sites that focus solely on coupons. The merchant actually has a lot of control with our interface to commission two sales differently from the same affiliate based on both the traffic type and characteristics of the transaction.

    The $1,000 ceiling can be automated as well, wouldn't need to manually adjust. I agree that this is not something that we see often (ceilings) but I can't speak to the specific business case that causes this for any specific Merchant.
    Thanks,

    Brian Littleton
    President/CEO - ShareASale.com, Inc.

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  18. #14
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Commission will be paid on the first $1,000 of each completed transaction only.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian - ShareASale View Post
    The $1,000 ceiling can be automated as well, wouldn't need to manually adjust. I agree that this is not something that we see often (ceilings) but I can't speak to the specific business case that causes this for any specific Merchant.


    Let me see if I can understand this right, and in plain English!

    On the Totally Furniture datafeed of about (13,874) products, they have (10,772) products ranging from $15.33 to $499.99

    I just want to make sure I don't make a mistake and yank the datafeed, and drop this merchant because I read all this wrong...

    All I want to know is if I am going to get paid for the sale any of those (13,874) products under $500.00 or if I am not going to get paid unless, and until, I have made $1,000.00 in sales from Totally Furniture.


  19. #15
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Mr. Sal,

    You will get paid for every legitimate order regardless of size.

    However, if a customer orders $3,500 on one order you will only receive commission on the first $1,000 - the rest the merchant keeps for themselves. At 6% commission the max they will pay you on a single order is $60 ...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

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  21. #16
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    While their average order is under $400, their reversal rate makes me nervous...

    Attached Images Attached Images
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  22. #17
    ABW Ambassador
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    Apply different commission level for coupon only affiliates is somewhat understandable.

    Set a cap for commissionale sales is ridiculous. Most of my merchants are encouraging large sales by offering bonus or tierd commission for those big ticket sales. It is not easy to sell a $2000 bedroom set, What in the world is Totally Furniture thinking?

  23. #18
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convergence View Post
    Mr. Sal,

    You will get paid for every legitimate order regardless of size.

    However, if a customer orders $3,500 on one order you will only receive commission on the first $1,000 - the rest the merchant keeps for themselves. At 6% commission the max they will pay you on a single order is $60 ...
    Thanks Convergence,

    While the deal still sucks, I guess I can live with that (6% commission), and as long as I get paid for every legitimate order regardless of size, then I think I can leave the products on my site and see how it goes after I make a few small sales with them...

    By the way, I don't have a coupon site, but I have a script that will show the Totally Furniture Coupons from the SAS coupon feed on the page that shows the Totally Furniture products, and I hope I get no shit from Totally Furniture about the 6% commission if a possible customer decides to click on the coupon link, instead of the product link on the same page.

  24. #19
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal View Post
    While the deal still sucks, I guess I can live with that (6% commission), and as long as I get paid for every legitimate order regardless of size, then I think I can leave the products on my site and see how it goes after I make a few small sales with them...
    6% for furniture these days is decent - If you're getting paid for the entire order amount - seems there was a rash of commission drops around the first of the year. Seen one drop from 10% to 4%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal View Post
    By the way, I don't have a coupon site, but I have a script that will show the Totally Furniture Coupons from the SAS coupon feed on the page that shows the Totally Furniture products, and I hope I get no shit from Totally Furniture about the 6% commission if a possible customer decides to click on the coupon link, instead of the product link on the same page.
    Shouldn't. But again, they seem to be getting creative with their commission structure - so who knows.

    They should take a page out of Wayfair's multi-level commission structure. That one makes sense (but they shouldn't take feed lessons from them)...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  25. #20
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convergence View Post
    6% for furniture these days is decent - If you're getting paid for the entire order amount - seems there was a rash of commission drops around the first of the year. Seen one drop from 10% to 4%.
    I agree!
    Quote Originally Posted by Convergence View Post
    Shouldn't. But again, they seem to be getting creative with their commission structure - so who knows.
    Only time will tell!

    Quote Originally Posted by Convergence View Post
    They should take a page out of Wayfair's multi-level commission structure. That one makes sense (but they shouldn't take feed lessons from them)...
    No comment!

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  27. #21
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    I think the cap on $1,000 is ridiculous and I will never agree with penalizing coupon affiliates.

    Brian, While it may be true that it's becoming more common, so is meth and oxycodone use. So is terminating employees in these tough times. So is paying women 70% of what men make.

    So who cares if it's more common? It's still wrong. If a merchant wants to pay two different affiliates for sending the same customer to their site, split the commission equally. Otherwise pay the first affiliate who sent the traffic. Don't gut the coupon site's commissions.

    So I will dump these guys. They obviously couldn't care about me.

  28. #22
    ...and a Pirate's heart. Convergence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibby View Post
    I think the cap on $1,000 is ridiculous and I will never agree with penalizing coupon affiliates.

    Brian, While it may be true that it's becoming more common, so is meth and oxycodone use. So is terminating employees in these tough times. So is paying women 70% of what men make.

    So who cares if it's more common? It's still wrong. If a merchant wants to pay two different affiliates for sending the same customer to their site, split the commission equally. Otherwise pay the first affiliate who sent the traffic. Don't gut the coupon site's commissions.

    So I will dump these guys. They obviously couldn't care about me.
    Need some sleep there, Bibby?

    Have to disagree with your diatribe on this -

    All wrongs are not equal. There are those that believe letting your young children believe in the holiday tradition known as Santa Claus is equivalent to murder - c'mon! My example is as ridiculous as yours.

    If a coupon site originates the traffic - yes, bravo, 100% commission rate. If all they do is post a coupon code, drop a cookie, and hijack the sale after somone is already in the checkout process - then, IMO, they should only get a portion of the available commission and the rest goes to the original referrer - Affiliate or not. Now it's the merchant's problem for having coupons to begin with. Brainwashing the consumer to expect a discount. Then it's the merchant's fault for ALLOWING coupon only sites into their program.

    I do agree that a cap is ridiculous. Many years ago I left a near six figure a year job because the bastard who owned the company wanted to cap my earnings. I am a salesman. Always have been. Always will be.

    Now Bibby, how about some sleep...
    Salty kisses, Sandy toes, and a Pirate's heart...

  29. #23
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convergence View Post
    Need some sleep there, Bibby?

    Have to disagree with your diatribe on this -

    All wrongs are not equal. There are those that believe letting your young children believe in the holiday tradition known as Santa Claus is equivalent to murder - c'mon! My example is as ridiculous as yours.

    If a coupon site originates the traffic - yes, bravo, 100% commission rate. If all they do is post a coupon code, drop a cookie, and hijack the sale after somone is already in the checkout process - then, IMO, they should only get a portion of the available commission and the rest goes to the original referrer - Affiliate or not. Now it's the merchant's problem for having coupons to begin with. Brainwashing the consumer to expect a discount. Then it's the merchant's fault for ALLOWING coupon only sites into their program.

    I do agree that a cap is ridiculous. Many years ago I left a near six figure a year job because the bastard who owned the company wanted to cap my earnings. I am a salesman. Always have been. Always will be.

    Now Bibby, how about some sleep...
    Yes, I do need sleep. I was just making the point that just b/c it's popular doesn't make it right.

    Any affiliate who hijacks the cookie should be banned. I don't want to be lumped in with those crooks. Coupon affiliates aren't the only unethical affiliates. Their are bad apples everywhere. Most affiliates are honest. I don't think coupon affiliates should be targeted.

    I'm all for cleaning up the industry but lets do it the right way and not pick on every coupon site.

    As far as blogs are concerned. Not all are ethical. So maybe every blog should receive the same commission as coupon sites.

    Some sites violate terms. So every site should receive the same commission as coupon sites.

    Before you know it, the merchants will get their wish b lowering commissions for all and implementing restrictive terms.

    Now it's off to bed as I've ranted again.

  30. #24
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb
    some history:
    I have their welcome email from October, 2006. Times must have really changed there, because under the OPM at the time they offered get-busy money, a volume bonus ($200 bonus for 3500 in sales), and you could offer visitors running volume bonuses. The max was 17% discount for sales $5000 and up.

  31. #25
    ShareASale President/CEO and ABW Veteran Brian - ShareASale's Avatar
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    Bibby,

    I do think there are quite a few differences with the two compared...

    I do believe there is validity in the philosophy that traffic sources are different. It isn't about penalizing anyone, it is about properly attributing a sale - and commissions properly.

    I think it is valid for a Merchant to look at a traffic source and decide what value they put in to a given sale... It is business and the whole arrangement has to be positive for everyone in order to keep working...

    It isn't about cleaning up the industry either - that is a separate discussion and most of these attribution discussions assume that everyone is acting as they should - terms violations are an entirely different discussion.

    Make sure to read the terms carefully, it is targeting a very specific consumer behaviour ... it isn't an attack on coupons.
    Thanks,

    Brian Littleton
    President/CEO - ShareASale.com, Inc.

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